Industrial Action at Flybe?
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 591
Likes: 36
From: The middle
Coffin Corner,
The original share issue, I believe, was intended to reward the employees of Jersey European Airways at the time for their loyalty and hard work over a period of years - you didn't get it just because you happened to work for them on the day the share certificates were issued.
It is the loyalty part which meant that if you left the company, as I did, that you had to return the certificate. I also recall that there were restrictions as to how any shares received at the eventual flotation could be disposed of, but I no longer have the details - one of your more senior colleagues might be able to tell you more.
The majority of the work force didn't get anything because the majority of the work force haven't/hadn't worked there long enough to be entitled to them. If that somehow seems unfair maybe balpa should take it up.
The original share issue, I believe, was intended to reward the employees of Jersey European Airways at the time for their loyalty and hard work over a period of years - you didn't get it just because you happened to work for them on the day the share certificates were issued.
It is the loyalty part which meant that if you left the company, as I did, that you had to return the certificate. I also recall that there were restrictions as to how any shares received at the eventual flotation could be disposed of, but I no longer have the details - one of your more senior colleagues might be able to tell you more.
The majority of the work force didn't get anything because the majority of the work force haven't/hadn't worked there long enough to be entitled to them. If that somehow seems unfair maybe balpa should take it up.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 489
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
excrab
I am not bemoaning the fact that I have no shares, my response to Whispering Giant was so because RHINO had asked how many shares the workforce received during the float. WG's response, although dated, didn't state that the majority of the workforce received no shares. I didn't want RHINO to think the majority did, because we didn't.
I am not bemoaning the fact that I have no shares, my response to Whispering Giant was so because RHINO had asked how many shares the workforce received during the float. WG's response, although dated, didn't state that the majority of the workforce received no shares. I didn't want RHINO to think the majority did, because we didn't.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 628
Likes: 12
From: UK
thanks for that, quite enlightening!
It seems to me if your directors were bothered about what you think they would have issued (or allowed you to buy at an advantageous price) all employees with shares. Ensuring that you were ALL tied into the businesses future. Given they have not leads me to think they reckon you guys (and girls) have nowt in your trousers as far as improving your T and C's.
good luck!
It seems to me if your directors were bothered about what you think they would have issued (or allowed you to buy at an advantageous price) all employees with shares. Ensuring that you were ALL tied into the businesses future. Given they have not leads me to think they reckon you guys (and girls) have nowt in your trousers as far as improving your T and C's.
good luck!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: Here, there, everywhere
Based on BALPA's press release this morning, the make or break meetings between management and themselves are imminent.
It's been impressive to watch the crews rallying behind BALPA on this one, and a few i have spoken to have joined the union in order to make their point.
Watch this space.
It's been impressive to watch the crews rallying behind BALPA on this one, and a few i have spoken to have joined the union in order to make their point.
Watch this space.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Castle Greyskull
RHINO, I think you hit the nail on the head. Flybe completely neglected to offer employees the opportunity to buy shares at the option price.....another kick in the balls, indicative of management's contempt for their workforce given the current situation. It would have cost them next to nothing and may have improved moral at a time when it's desperately needed.
Last edited by skeletor; 14th December 2010 at 16:46.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: South East
Two items from the prospectus of relevance
Page 15: Risk relating to the business
"The Group is dependent on good industrial relations
Many of the Group’s employees are represented by trade unions and the Group has voluntary recognition agreements in place with BALPA in respect of its pilots, UNITE in respect of its cabin crew and Prospect in respect of its engineers. The Group undertakes collective bargaining with such unions on a financial yearly basis. While agreements have been reached with UNITE and Prospect in respect of the 2010/11 Financial Year, the Group is currently in discussion with BALPA (under the dispute resolution process agreed in Flybe’s voluntary recognition agreement with BALPA) in relation to the 2010/11 Financial Year pay settlement and certain scheduling issues. Any breakdown in the bargaining process with BALPA (or with UNITE or Prospect generally) could result in the Group being unable to continue to negotiate wages and salaries on terms that support it offering services at competitive prices, or could lead to strikes or other industrial action (or the threat of strikes or industrial action) which could damage the Group’s reputation or cause passengers to book with the Group’s competitors. A breakdown in the relationship with employee representative bodies, or the employees themselves, could lead to industrial action being taken which could in turn have a material adverse effect on the Group’s business, results of operations, growth prospects and/or financial condition."
Page 44. A "Key element" of strategy
"the group will continue to focus on cost reductions across all aspects of the Flybe business with the aim of delivering the lowest unit cost base amongst European regional airlines"
Enough said!
Best of luck in getting a fair result,
"The Group is dependent on good industrial relations
Many of the Group’s employees are represented by trade unions and the Group has voluntary recognition agreements in place with BALPA in respect of its pilots, UNITE in respect of its cabin crew and Prospect in respect of its engineers. The Group undertakes collective bargaining with such unions on a financial yearly basis. While agreements have been reached with UNITE and Prospect in respect of the 2010/11 Financial Year, the Group is currently in discussion with BALPA (under the dispute resolution process agreed in Flybe’s voluntary recognition agreement with BALPA) in relation to the 2010/11 Financial Year pay settlement and certain scheduling issues. Any breakdown in the bargaining process with BALPA (or with UNITE or Prospect generally) could result in the Group being unable to continue to negotiate wages and salaries on terms that support it offering services at competitive prices, or could lead to strikes or other industrial action (or the threat of strikes or industrial action) which could damage the Group’s reputation or cause passengers to book with the Group’s competitors. A breakdown in the relationship with employee representative bodies, or the employees themselves, could lead to industrial action being taken which could in turn have a material adverse effect on the Group’s business, results of operations, growth prospects and/or financial condition."
Page 44. A "Key element" of strategy
"the group will continue to focus on cost reductions across all aspects of the Flybe business with the aim of delivering the lowest unit cost base amongst European regional airlines"
Enough said!
Best of luck in getting a fair result,
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: South East
Two more from the prospectus
Two more from the prospectus
Page 16 (Risk)
In addition, pilots are from time to time in short supply in the European airline industry and the Group may have to expend significant amounts of time in recruiting and training them. There has historically been a trend in the industry for senior pilots in short haul airlines (such as the Group) to leave in order to join airlines with longer haul routes, particularly when the global economy is strong and there is high demand for experienced pilots to fly on international routes. Although in the last few years the Group has maintained a relatively high retention rate in respect of pilots, this may change when the economy improves. ......Any significant shortage of highly trained or specialised employees could have a material adverse effect on the Group’s business, results of operations, growth prospects and/or financial condition.
Page 62; employee Incentivisation
Flybe recognises the importance of its people to the success of the Group. Consequently, the Group’s remuneration policy is designed to be market competitive in order to motivate and retain talented executives, align the reward strategy with delivery of the business strategy, incentivise and reward sustainable profit growth and the creation of long-term value, and align employee behaviours with the interests of shareholders.
Ummm???
Page 16 (Risk)
In addition, pilots are from time to time in short supply in the European airline industry and the Group may have to expend significant amounts of time in recruiting and training them. There has historically been a trend in the industry for senior pilots in short haul airlines (such as the Group) to leave in order to join airlines with longer haul routes, particularly when the global economy is strong and there is high demand for experienced pilots to fly on international routes. Although in the last few years the Group has maintained a relatively high retention rate in respect of pilots, this may change when the economy improves. ......Any significant shortage of highly trained or specialised employees could have a material adverse effect on the Group’s business, results of operations, growth prospects and/or financial condition.
Page 62; employee Incentivisation
Flybe recognises the importance of its people to the success of the Group. Consequently, the Group’s remuneration policy is designed to be market competitive in order to motivate and retain talented executives, align the reward strategy with delivery of the business strategy, incentivise and reward sustainable profit growth and the creation of long-term value, and align employee behaviours with the interests of shareholders.
Ummm???
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: thinking about that
Consequently, the Group’s remuneration policy is designed to be market competitive in order to motivate and retain talented executives
Are flight crew executives or bottom feeding scum?
Interestingly an airline can operate without members of one group but not the other..
Are flight crew executives or bottom feeding scum?
Interestingly an airline can operate without members of one group but not the other..
Last edited by Hypo Thalamus; 14th December 2010 at 07:44.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 628
Likes: 12
From: UK
Somebody mentioned earlier about the float possibly being pulled. I have know doubt it was on a knife edge. Any talk of industrial action in the press would have seen the float pulled. It probably explains why it was one of the most low key floats of the year. What an opportunity missed....
It's back to the bottom of the tank....
It's back to the bottom of the tank....
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: At the whim of crewing
Page 44. A "Key element" of strategy
"the group will continue to focus on cost reductions across all aspects of the Flybe business with the aim of delivering the lowest unit cost base amongst European regional airlines"
Ok... am I the only person out there who finds this paragraph actually quite worrying. As if it's not enough that the average salary in the company (excluding directors and their 28% payrise) has fallen by a couple of percent, this makes it appear that this is one of their key points. They don't want to pay us above the inflation rate, in order so it will cost them less.
I understand that key talks are going on today - I hope that the result is a fair one to all pilots out there - I've had enough of being treated in the way that the company have done. It's a wonder that half the people turn up to work with the levels of morale in the crewrooms.
Jims £1000000 interest free loan just totally takes the p155 out us all. It's a shame that the directors are just looking after themselves in this issue... no regard for us who have been making the money for the company.
And this flight efficiency. I will bloody well only do it when the company give me a fair payrise. Even if it means getting in 30 minutes early on each sector. I'm not funding any more of Jims little ventures willingly.
Rant over.
Beer...
"the group will continue to focus on cost reductions across all aspects of the Flybe business with the aim of delivering the lowest unit cost base amongst European regional airlines"
Ok... am I the only person out there who finds this paragraph actually quite worrying. As if it's not enough that the average salary in the company (excluding directors and their 28% payrise) has fallen by a couple of percent, this makes it appear that this is one of their key points. They don't want to pay us above the inflation rate, in order so it will cost them less.
I understand that key talks are going on today - I hope that the result is a fair one to all pilots out there - I've had enough of being treated in the way that the company have done. It's a wonder that half the people turn up to work with the levels of morale in the crewrooms.
Jims £1000000 interest free loan just totally takes the p155 out us all. It's a shame that the directors are just looking after themselves in this issue... no regard for us who have been making the money for the company.
And this flight efficiency. I will bloody well only do it when the company give me a fair payrise. Even if it means getting in 30 minutes early on each sector. I'm not funding any more of Jims little ventures willingly.
Rant over.
Beer...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Bandit Country
FANS
Fans retort is brutal, but sadly correct. And when you guys go all e-jet,(Q400 replacement, as well as expansion over the next 4-5yrs), the salaries will not remotely reflect industry standard.
What's your latest on the single-salary pay scale? Are the company still trying to push that little GEM through?
T
What's your latest on the single-salary pay scale? Are the company still trying to push that little GEM through?
T
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: UK
More from the prospectus:
7.4 It is intended that the following awards over Ordinary Shares be granted to Directors and Senior Management on Admission or within six weeks thereafter pursuant to the PSP:
Maximum value of
Ordinary Shares
under award (by
reference to the
Name Offer Price) Earliest Vesting Date
Jim French . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £500,000 Third anniversary of award date
Mark Chown . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £95,000 Third anniversary of award date
Andrew Knuckey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £250,000 Third anniversary of award date
Mike Rutter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £250,000 Third anniversary of award date
Andrew Strong . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £250,000 Third anniversary of award date
Chris Simpson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £60,000 Third anniversary of award date
Mark Elkins . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £104,000 Third anniversary of award date
Simon Charles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £104,000 Third anniversary of award date
7.4 It is intended that the following awards over Ordinary Shares be granted to Directors and Senior Management on Admission or within six weeks thereafter pursuant to the PSP:
Maximum value of
Ordinary Shares
under award (by
reference to the
Name Offer Price) Earliest Vesting Date
Jim French . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £500,000 Third anniversary of award date
Mark Chown . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £95,000 Third anniversary of award date
Andrew Knuckey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £250,000 Third anniversary of award date
Mike Rutter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £250,000 Third anniversary of award date
Andrew Strong . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £250,000 Third anniversary of award date
Chris Simpson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £60,000 Third anniversary of award date
Mark Elkins . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £104,000 Third anniversary of award date
Simon Charles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . £104,000 Third anniversary of award date