Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 29
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From: Europe
Wild West
Wouldn't flying be more interesting if there where more pilots like fivegreenlights. I have control and let us do a manual non briefed apporach!!
What the heck. They changed the RWY, so what let us do a visual.
Surely nothing can go wrong. Come on Guys.
Happy Landings
What the heck. They changed the RWY, so what let us do a visual.
Surely nothing can go wrong. Come on Guys.
Happy Landings
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
Of course you could negate all of that by including a visual brief when you're briefing the approach.
That, is simples.
That, is simples.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,954
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From: England
Depends what you mean by late.
If it is more commercial and efficient and can be achieved without rushing, yes. It will have been briefed beforehand.
Obviously if the weather is cack and staying cack there's no point briefing for it.
Like you say,
Obviously I don't. I'm just speaking more generally and not commenting specifically on these instances.
If it is more commercial and efficient and can be achieved without rushing, yes. It will have been briefed beforehand.
Obviously if the weather is cack and staying cack there's no point briefing for it.
Like you say,
it's a requirement to do a full brief for a visual so if this has not been planned/anticipated then that would not be very good CRM.
besides how do you know they are not training and the guy under training is flying his first line sector?
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
Obviously I don't. I'm just speaking more generally and not commenting specifically on these instances.
Just peeves me when threads turn into a bashing of XYZ airline when we all do more or less the same thing - there seem to be quite a few people around who delight in "flying" other people's aircraft rather than their own.
)
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 114
From: UK
Vexed- as an FO I do (subject to Captains objection) request visuals on every approach, and if denied, I'll fly manual raw data on 90% of my landings, as soon as I pass the IAF (don't want to hold raw data- too much effort). The only captains that deny it, don't blame the OFDM, they try to cover up the fact that they can't do it themselves, so don't let an FO do it!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,646
Likes: 690
From: UK
VJW,
I think you'll find that Captains are deciding whether or not you can do it and what the risk change is if you do. The risk change may also be affected by other factors that are connected to your request, but not directly. Different Captains will perceive different risk, and it may well be the case that those who deny are in fact the more perceptive.
After a few years in the left seat, you'll see.
I think you'll find that Captains are deciding whether or not you can do it and what the risk change is if you do. The risk change may also be affected by other factors that are connected to your request, but not directly. Different Captains will perceive different risk, and it may well be the case that those who deny are in fact the more perceptive.
After a few years in the left seat, you'll see.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 28
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From: Romania
Quote:" Different Captains will perceive different risk, and it may well be the case that those who deny are in fact the more perceptive.
After a few years in the left seat, you'll see. "
I totally agree with the above. At the end the pic is responsible for the A/c even if he is not at the controls. Maybe the F/O is good but not that good ....
After a few years in the left seat, you'll see. "
I totally agree with the above. At the end the pic is responsible for the A/c even if he is not at the controls. Maybe the F/O is good but not that good ....
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: 20 ADD 10 CPT
Agree with the above, by flying manual you are effectively removing one pilot from the flight deck, as the PM now needs to monitor the PF instead of the PF monitoring the automatics, leaving the PM with more capacity for general situational awareness.
That said if the situation permits ie VMC and uncongested airspace manual flying keeps handling skills up to standard.
But if I was on an ILS and the PF disconnects the automatics in IMC and turns off the flight directors that would take me out my comfort zone.
Serious thread drift...
so any new news on numbers leaving/left or other related rumours ?
That said if the situation permits ie VMC and uncongested airspace manual flying keeps handling skills up to standard.
But if I was on an ILS and the PF disconnects the automatics in IMC and turns off the flight directors that would take me out my comfort zone.
Serious thread drift...
so any new news on numbers leaving/left or other related rumours ?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 82
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From: Europe.
But if I was on an ILS and the PF disconnects the automatics in IMC and turns off the flight directors that would take me out my comfort zone.
That is just basic flying skills and what you are (under)paid for.
What do you do if you're flying into an airport IMC where its so turbulent the autopilot is rubbish and flight directors and auto throttle are too slow to respond? That, my friend, does happen!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 180
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From: hertfordshire
VJW - You are an obnoxious little sod. Wind you neck in.
Jet fule addict - same for you too old fruit.
I know your type, you both come and go, always the gob!!!!e in the crew room or ramp talking bollocks about something amazing you did.
If you disconnected the autopilot and removed the FD's in IMC on an ILS you would find yourself immediately as the PNF and a call into the base TRE to discuss your inappropriate behaviour.
The arrogance displayed by you both is shocking and unaccpetable.
In 11 years and many many flying hours, I have never been in a situation where the autopilot is unable to maintain an acceptable flight path. If you have then I put it to you that you were somewhere you should not have been thus opening further questions.
You have no rebuttal, take some unfriendly advice and think about the way you go to work.
I am appalled.
Jet fule addict - same for you too old fruit.
I know your type, you both come and go, always the gob!!!!e in the crew room or ramp talking bollocks about something amazing you did.
If you disconnected the autopilot and removed the FD's in IMC on an ILS you would find yourself immediately as the PNF and a call into the base TRE to discuss your inappropriate behaviour.
The arrogance displayed by you both is shocking and unaccpetable.
In 11 years and many many flying hours, I have never been in a situation where the autopilot is unable to maintain an acceptable flight path. If you have then I put it to you that you were somewhere you should not have been thus opening further questions.
You have no rebuttal, take some unfriendly advice and think about the way you go to work.
I am appalled.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: uk
I hear that the management are now deserting the ship. JD in DUB (the one MoL threw a chair at or something) and PB in STN are both allegedly off to the sandpit to count beans for FD and EK respectively.
Anybody know more?
Anybody know more?
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: World
The thread about manual flying can be found in the Tech Log section here
With regards to management leaving. I too have heard about the briefcase incident but as usual I would take that with a grain of salt.
Rumours about JDO leaving to Flybai have been persistent for some time now so I would gauge them as rather correct. Haven't heard about PB going for Emirates yet except on the web here.
With regards to management leaving. I too have heard about the briefcase incident but as usual I would take that with a grain of salt.
Rumours about JDO leaving to Flybai have been persistent for some time now so I would gauge them as rather correct. Haven't heard about PB going for Emirates yet except on the web here.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: Europe.
In 11 years and many many flying hours, I have never been in a situation where the autopilot is unable to maintain an acceptable flight path. If you have then I put it to you that you were somewhere you should not have been thus opening further questions.
I don't claim to be an excellent pilot, nor will I ever disconnect AP, AT on an approach (whether its IMC or VMC) without the approval of the PNF. As many have already mentioned there is a time and a place to do this. I'm no idiot.
Bottom line is though that flying an ILS is a pretty basic flying skill.
I would be terribly ashamed if I would not be able to do this.
Also, please don't call me arrogant.
Copy pasted into the other forum if you want to keep the discussion going.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 481
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From: next to sidestick
If you disconnected the autopilot and removed the FD's in IMC on an ILS you would find yourself immediately as the PNF and a call into the base TRE to discuss your inappropriate behaviour.
