Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
From: UAE
Legion: a multitude; a great number; a unit of Roman troops; a host of armed men.
Thats just weird?
Id of gone for... blockhead, dolt, donkey, dope, dunce, fool, idiot, imbecile, jackass, jerk*, nitwit, numbskull, simpleton*, twit, but not a Legion?
YYZ
Thats just weird?
Id of gone for... blockhead, dolt, donkey, dope, dunce, fool, idiot, imbecile, jackass, jerk*, nitwit, numbskull, simpleton*, twit, but not a Legion?
YYZ
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
From: Newcastle NI
Exodus
Ryanair as a private company is free to conduct it's business in any way it see's fit, What concerns me most is the cynical exploitation of all its business partners, from Boeing, Airports, Staff and of course customers, this is almost unique in any business i know of, at least in the developed world.
One can argue that banks rip off customers, but their staff seem to be well remunerated?
There are some basic things that employee's should not have to fund, applying for a job, reading a CV, undertaking a sim assessment should not be a cost on the individual, it is a cost on the business and deductible against profits, like wise the provision of uniforms, a chef may have to provide their own "whites" but they belong to them and go to the next job with them, unless it says " Gordon Ramesy" in which case GR should pay for them, ditto Ryanair.
The whole contractor thing and self employed status of these contractors has a bad smell to it, they are not free lance, FR produces rosters, you can't decline a duty, it smacks of tax avoidance at best evasion at worst.
Now I'm no fan of paying tax, but if the Irish government, who seem not to be too clever where money is concerned are loosing out then it should be remembered that the are being bailed out/ propped up by the EU and the Government of Britain. We all have choices to some degree, but as one of the SSTR people pointed out, should he go and work in a burger and loose his skill set or cough up the money for a job? , i personally don't find the SSTR scheme unpalatable, unfair maybe, but its not FR worst excess.
My prediction is that as the LoCo market becomes saturated and FR costs increase as they keep aircraft that will need C checks and fly from airports with overheads their expansion will slow and their cost will start to catch up, at which time the only way they can improve yields will be improve the product, for pilots FR should remember that loyalty is a two way street
One can argue that banks rip off customers, but their staff seem to be well remunerated?
There are some basic things that employee's should not have to fund, applying for a job, reading a CV, undertaking a sim assessment should not be a cost on the individual, it is a cost on the business and deductible against profits, like wise the provision of uniforms, a chef may have to provide their own "whites" but they belong to them and go to the next job with them, unless it says " Gordon Ramesy" in which case GR should pay for them, ditto Ryanair.
The whole contractor thing and self employed status of these contractors has a bad smell to it, they are not free lance, FR produces rosters, you can't decline a duty, it smacks of tax avoidance at best evasion at worst.
Now I'm no fan of paying tax, but if the Irish government, who seem not to be too clever where money is concerned are loosing out then it should be remembered that the are being bailed out/ propped up by the EU and the Government of Britain. We all have choices to some degree, but as one of the SSTR people pointed out, should he go and work in a burger and loose his skill set or cough up the money for a job? , i personally don't find the SSTR scheme unpalatable, unfair maybe, but its not FR worst excess.
My prediction is that as the LoCo market becomes saturated and FR costs increase as they keep aircraft that will need C checks and fly from airports with overheads their expansion will slow and their cost will start to catch up, at which time the only way they can improve yields will be improve the product, for pilots FR should remember that loyalty is a two way street
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: Camel jockey
Mikehotel152
mate you sum it up beautifully, he's laughing at us, thinks he has us right where he wants us, and he's right(for the most part). So what can be done? forget unions for the most part, the speed at which ryr operate at they cant keep up or organize quick enough to counteract changes ryr make. IALPA are purely and simply a extension of aer lingus, any moves they make on behalf of ryr members will be done with a favorable outcome for aer lingus in mind. BALPA i know little about but given what has happened in the last 2 years in the uk that they where involved with shows little if any help. No doubt many will disagree with me as is there right but until we see some success in the workforce from people getting what they want and other realizing its possible through growing a pair then a united visible front will not work. The only way things will change is when ryr start to loose cash because of pilots shortages, at the moment the rumors of pay deals (and they are only rumors, but you can be sure they have been well planted) indicate to me anyway a head in the sand attitude to the numbers leaving and a typical MOL approach to things not going his way by indicating they he has no intentions of offer anything and we can all
off. So for me the only thing left is a somewhat silent protest that should it be done by everyone might just get us some more attention. I'll not be doing one single thing to assist the operation beyond that that i am required, no to days off, no more answering blocked phone numbers, no using my phone to call op's or crewcontrol out of base. no excuses for delays, no showing up less than 45 mins before departure. etc etc. If we can get the workforce united on simple things as these maybe just maybe there might be a way back from the erosion that has occurred over the last 7 years.
Oh and facelookbothered, you are quite right in what you say, maybe if everyone read this they would have a better understanding of what drives the ryr machine, where they really make there money and how much they rely on turn over of not only aircraft. http://www.scribd.com/doc/44477013/I...-Scoop-Nov2010
mate you sum it up beautifully, he's laughing at us, thinks he has us right where he wants us, and he's right(for the most part). So what can be done? forget unions for the most part, the speed at which ryr operate at they cant keep up or organize quick enough to counteract changes ryr make. IALPA are purely and simply a extension of aer lingus, any moves they make on behalf of ryr members will be done with a favorable outcome for aer lingus in mind. BALPA i know little about but given what has happened in the last 2 years in the uk that they where involved with shows little if any help. No doubt many will disagree with me as is there right but until we see some success in the workforce from people getting what they want and other realizing its possible through growing a pair then a united visible front will not work. The only way things will change is when ryr start to loose cash because of pilots shortages, at the moment the rumors of pay deals (and they are only rumors, but you can be sure they have been well planted) indicate to me anyway a head in the sand attitude to the numbers leaving and a typical MOL approach to things not going his way by indicating they he has no intentions of offer anything and we can all
off. So for me the only thing left is a somewhat silent protest that should it be done by everyone might just get us some more attention. I'll not be doing one single thing to assist the operation beyond that that i am required, no to days off, no more answering blocked phone numbers, no using my phone to call op's or crewcontrol out of base. no excuses for delays, no showing up less than 45 mins before departure. etc etc. If we can get the workforce united on simple things as these maybe just maybe there might be a way back from the erosion that has occurred over the last 7 years.Oh and facelookbothered, you are quite right in what you say, maybe if everyone read this they would have a better understanding of what drives the ryr machine, where they really make there money and how much they rely on turn over of not only aircraft. http://www.scribd.com/doc/44477013/I...-Scoop-Nov2010
Last edited by bia botal; 17th March 2011 at 11:48.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Germany
PB and DR,
if I were a shareholder and knew what you guys were upto....I would be asking serious questions.
any request by crew is greeted with a "NO", no matter what!
what puzzles me the most about all of this is.... it is clear these managers lack the ability to deal with simple crew requests, and instead just say NO for the sake of saying NO!! RYR are in no position to play the bully anymore.
these "managers", don't seem to have the ability to see the big picture...
with crews going elsewhere...massive brain drain and valuble crew experience is being lost ! mark my words, this whole thing will come back to bite RYR in the ass !
and the usual response to this is, well as long as they can put two pilots in the front and get from A-B, Ryanair are happy....folks, if it werent for their high standard of training, the wheels would have fallen off this Ryanair trolley along time ago.... we all know there is one thing that this airline can not afford to happen...and with managers pissing off the very professionals who ensure a safe operation on a daily basic, you "wanna be" managers who happen to dress in dirty ripped jeans and runners, its very thin ice you are now threading on....
Like many of the colleagues I work with on a day to day basis, dont even contemplate approaching me asking for a favour anymore! You will only be greeted with a "NO".
if I were a shareholder and knew what you guys were upto....I would be asking serious questions.
any request by crew is greeted with a "NO", no matter what!
what puzzles me the most about all of this is.... it is clear these managers lack the ability to deal with simple crew requests, and instead just say NO for the sake of saying NO!! RYR are in no position to play the bully anymore.
these "managers", don't seem to have the ability to see the big picture...
with crews going elsewhere...massive brain drain and valuble crew experience is being lost ! mark my words, this whole thing will come back to bite RYR in the ass !
and the usual response to this is, well as long as they can put two pilots in the front and get from A-B, Ryanair are happy....folks, if it werent for their high standard of training, the wheels would have fallen off this Ryanair trolley along time ago.... we all know there is one thing that this airline can not afford to happen...and with managers pissing off the very professionals who ensure a safe operation on a daily basic, you "wanna be" managers who happen to dress in dirty ripped jeans and runners, its very thin ice you are now threading on....
Like many of the colleagues I work with on a day to day basis, dont even contemplate approaching me asking for a favour anymore! You will only be greeted with a "NO".
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,339
Likes: 1
From: My house
The latest email from mr Dooney:
They now want all brk pilots to get company id cards to work at certain bases. We have to fill out all the forms, get crb checks from every country we have been resident in and what really gets to me is PAY for them ourselves. What happens if I don't want to pay, which I don't. I guess they cnt cover the holes of resiginations in the bases like the canaries!!!
Good luck
They now want all brk pilots to get company id cards to work at certain bases. We have to fill out all the forms, get crb checks from every country we have been resident in and what really gets to me is PAY for them ourselves. What happens if I don't want to pay, which I don't. I guess they cnt cover the holes of resiginations in the bases like the canaries!!!
Good luck
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: 20 ADD 10 CPT
@ nick14,
Ive already replied to Mr DD, stating that I will most definitely not be getting said ID if I have to pay for it myself, I suggest you do the same.
And I was in a good mood all of this morning....thanks
remember boys and girls,
No bucks, No buck Rogers..
Ive already replied to Mr DD, stating that I will most definitely not be getting said ID if I have to pay for it myself, I suggest you do the same.
And I was in a good mood all of this morning....thanks
remember boys and girls,
No bucks, No buck Rogers..
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Nah mr DD! If it's all the same , I think we will pass !
Ryanair have introduced an additional "company ID" and they want the pilots to foot the bill !!!! Anyone got that mail! ?
Very valid point already made ! One background check is enough mate!
And the jockeys in Dublin every monday still wonder why people are leaving?
And with this crisis they are now facing with pilots jumping ship they have the brains to introduce this scam with the company ID???? Pathetic !!!!!
Ryanair have introduced an additional "company ID" and they want the pilots to foot the bill !!!! Anyone got that mail! ?
Very valid point already made ! One background check is enough mate!
And the jockeys in Dublin every monday still wonder why people are leaving?
And with this crisis they are now facing with pilots jumping ship they have the brains to introduce this scam with the company ID???? Pathetic !!!!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: World
Received the same mail from our good friends at Brookfield.
Not going to get it anyway. I'm not based at a Spanish base and from what I understand you can get a temporary ID which is valid for 3 months. I'm not going to do all that paperwork just for the off chance they put me in Spain for a week.
edit: A valid license and passport should normally be sufficient to get through security.
Not going to get it anyway. I'm not based at a Spanish base and from what I understand you can get a temporary ID which is valid for 3 months. I'm not going to do all that paperwork just for the off chance they put me in Spain for a week.
edit: A valid license and passport should normally be sufficient to get through security.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Napping in the cruise
Life gets even more fun when you receive the 'I.D' - it looks like something a 12 year old could make with Microsoft Paint, the harps are green on mine.... incredible. I was refused airside access at a UK base with the Ryanair 'I.D' because it "isn't a proper airside pass" upon my insistence that the company told me it was, I was promptly laughed at. It seems to work fine in Spain, however I suspect you could get airside at many Spanish airports by waving your Blockbusters card at them.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Eire
I am Absolutely Livid about this e-mail i really cant calm myself enough to reply,Its time for everyone to get off there asses and start to do something we can change this !!!!e treatment in Ryanair if we all want to but it takes all of us...Come on guys you know it makes sense ...The only thing that can beat them is Solidarity Thats everyone getting involved not 10 of us on PPRUNE if you know someone not involved ring them get them involved.The time has come to stop this.
JOIN REPA
JOIN BALPA/IALPA
VOLUNTEER TO HELP
Lets do it...
JOIN REPA
JOIN BALPA/IALPA
VOLUNTEER TO HELP
Lets do it...
Last edited by widered; 25th March 2011 at 18:10.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: Enroute to sand.
What happens when have the non spanish based pilots do not get the ID by end of April?? We all get taken off roster?? 
My bet, especially if your Captain, come the summer you will be handed the ID free as they will need you floating around.
The ID's dont work outside Spain and a few other bases so why should we pay, never mind the hassle and paperwork involved.
My bet, especially if your Captain, come the summer you will be handed the ID free as they will need you floating around.
The ID's dont work outside Spain and a few other bases so why should we pay, never mind the hassle and paperwork involved.