Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 182
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From: monaco
4 Captains left at my base in the last few months, quite a few senior F/O's have interviews lined up as we speak (I know one who is undergoing his command upgrade and studying for the EK interview at the same time) and there are quite a few people that I heard of leaving from other bases too.
Phonecalls from crewcontrol asking people to work on days off are more and more common.
jester42,
begging for higher levels and for shortcuts does not define a professional pilot.
Receiving a letter from management stating that you are at the bottom of the fuel league and that you should review the company SOP's does not define a professional airline.
Phonecalls from crewcontrol asking people to work on days off are more and more common.
jester42,
begging for higher levels and for shortcuts does not define a professional pilot.
Receiving a letter from management stating that you are at the bottom of the fuel league and that you should review the company SOP's does not define a professional airline.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 202
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From: Enroute to sand.
For a long time there has been rumours of guys moving which i failed to see. However now it seems that the first few have left everyone else is waking up. I didnt believe an exodus would start, just a few small irrelavant moves.But this week alone I have seen first hand the exodus really beginning to kick off.
Seems the few DUB FO on the move have 2500+ hours, these are the guys leaving that are going to wake Ryr up.They need every guy for command upgrade they can get in the next 24 months. I know of several guys personally who have A.L, B.A and emirates interviews in the next month.
Had one Captain jumpseat this week, 6 months he has been a Captain and is off now to a cargo company.After 5 years in the company all he got from mangement was "where are you going?" ... followed by "ok grand."
This indicates Ryr are not aware of the number who are gearing up for a move, or that they are ready for it. With aircraft arriving in 2s and 3s from Seattle, Captains going east and senior FO saying no thanks to upgrade courses I can't see how they are ready!(unless they plan on DEC again, and who would go to them when there appears to be options now).
Seems the few DUB FO on the move have 2500+ hours, these are the guys leaving that are going to wake Ryr up.They need every guy for command upgrade they can get in the next 24 months. I know of several guys personally who have A.L, B.A and emirates interviews in the next month.
Had one Captain jumpseat this week, 6 months he has been a Captain and is off now to a cargo company.After 5 years in the company all he got from mangement was "where are you going?" ... followed by "ok grand."
This indicates Ryr are not aware of the number who are gearing up for a move, or that they are ready for it. With aircraft arriving in 2s and 3s from Seattle, Captains going east and senior FO saying no thanks to upgrade courses I can't see how they are ready!(unless they plan on DEC again, and who would go to them when there appears to be options now).
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Base system
I heard that they have a policy of not letting everyone go to there base of choice it is because in the event of a base closure only half the people will be discontent.what sort of twisted logic is that.this was apparently said at a base captains meeting.
Its a bit hard to conjure up ideas of industrial action when we are all scattered around the far corners of Europe on different patterns / shifts.
I think this tactic has been successfully deployed for many years now!
Joined: Apr 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 399
Likes: 17
From: Utopia
Proof of one more Capt. leaving (bottom of article)...
An off-duty airline pilot drunkenly smashed a sports car into a brick wall at speed, a court heard.
Good job he did it in the UK, in Dubai he would be in serious sheet man!
An off-duty airline pilot drunkenly smashed a sports car into a brick wall at speed, a court heard.
Good job he did it in the UK, in Dubai he would be in serious sheet man!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 114
From: UK
I'm not sure what you mean 2000 hrs PIC for command minima to retain crew. I presume you're talking about FO's upgrading, and if so, none of us have 2000 hrs PIC- seeing as though most joined as cadets with 100 hrs PIC from CPL days. PIC is the captain, so I have the same PIC now as I did when I joined (bar a few c150 hrs).
Re 737 Jockey's comment and the link provided I found this funny on that report...
He was sentenced to a 12-month jail sentence, suspended for one year, and was ordered to do 100 hours of unpaid work.
RYR must love that. Is that 100 hrs duty or 100 hrs block he must do for free??
Re 737 Jockey's comment and the link provided I found this funny on that report...
He was sentenced to a 12-month jail sentence, suspended for one year, and was ordered to do 100 hours of unpaid work.
RYR must love that. Is that 100 hrs duty or 100 hrs block he must do for free??
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 203
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From: World
Haha that last line had me laughing VJW! 
I would imagine he means 2000 hours jet? I wouldn't pay too much attention to such gossip. The entire CU training program revolves around the cadet doing at least 3000 hours. At this point the pass/fail ratio is just about 50%. Lowering the hours requirement to 2000 hours would make that ratio drop I figure.
I would imagine he means 2000 hours jet? I wouldn't pay too much attention to such gossip. The entire CU training program revolves around the cadet doing at least 3000 hours. At this point the pass/fail ratio is just about 50%. Lowering the hours requirement to 2000 hours would make that ratio drop I figure.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Sandpit
Hitting them helps
Many years ago a Major Airline decided to unilaterally change the T's & C's of the pilot body.
The pilot body had a weak union at the time and after some negotiations, the pilots were sent on their merry way and told to do their job and stop complaining. The majority of the pilots took it upon themselves to make a stand and decided to begin an "unofficial protest". All flights for a month flew full letdowns (this was a while back - not like todays controlled airspace), did not ask for shorter routings and did not make any effort to rush the operation along. On time departures dropped, the fuel bill rocketed and schedules were disrupted as Captains refused to use "Captains Discretion".
After that one month of action, the Airline management backed down and re-instated the original T's & C's. From that day on, the pilots held the power and subsequently have grown into a powerful force in the airline. It is now one of the best paid airlines in the world with fair yet productive work schedules.
Each airline is different but the point I am trying to make is this :
The power lies with the Captains (I am not one so not trying to degrade the importance of the F/O) - they control the efficiency of the entire airline operation and with their effort, you could start to chip away at the block and start making a difference.
The pilot body had a weak union at the time and after some negotiations, the pilots were sent on their merry way and told to do their job and stop complaining. The majority of the pilots took it upon themselves to make a stand and decided to begin an "unofficial protest". All flights for a month flew full letdowns (this was a while back - not like todays controlled airspace), did not ask for shorter routings and did not make any effort to rush the operation along. On time departures dropped, the fuel bill rocketed and schedules were disrupted as Captains refused to use "Captains Discretion".
After that one month of action, the Airline management backed down and re-instated the original T's & C's. From that day on, the pilots held the power and subsequently have grown into a powerful force in the airline. It is now one of the best paid airlines in the world with fair yet productive work schedules.
Each airline is different but the point I am trying to make is this :
The power lies with the Captains (I am not one so not trying to degrade the importance of the F/O) - they control the efficiency of the entire airline operation and with their effort, you could start to chip away at the block and start making a difference.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: World
New numbers being churned out by the gossip mill today.
Approximate demand for captains for the next flying year April 2011 - April 2012 is 400. Queued CU's supposed to be nearly 180. Currently empty slots supposed to be nearly 220.
Those were the latest numbers I picked up from colleagues. Not sure where they come from or if they're anywhere near accurate though.
Approximate demand for captains for the next flying year April 2011 - April 2012 is 400. Queued CU's supposed to be nearly 180. Currently empty slots supposed to be nearly 220.
Those were the latest numbers I picked up from colleagues. Not sure where they come from or if they're anywhere near accurate though.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
From: uk
Hitting them helps.
Hmm. Problem I have with the whole "civil disobedience" thing is that we are all, above all commercial pilots, professional pilots, all that stuff.
I can't be the only one who gets more of a buzz out of closing the throttles (sorrry FTLs) at 120 miles, and opening them up, on the bug at 500', than dragging it in, thinking "this will stick it to them".
It would just be nice to have that recognised now and again, not just by the fuel league bollox ( sponsored by Tippex? ).
The management of so many companies should realise the gift they receive via dedicated workers, and I include CC, engineers, dispatchers etc. and stop regarding us as a necessary inconvenience come payday.
Back to thread: where are 200 (or 240, or 275) captains going to appear from by june, fuf hucks sake!! Most of the CU candidates at my base are saying they aren't interested, if it means a bond, a paycut, 5/3, and living on a desert island.
Liking the community service thing. Takes some nerve to give a skyline maximum beans with a skinful. Hope it wasn't a GTR. That rattling noise wasn't just the dry clutch, then....
I can't be the only one who gets more of a buzz out of closing the throttles (sorrry FTLs) at 120 miles, and opening them up, on the bug at 500', than dragging it in, thinking "this will stick it to them".
It would just be nice to have that recognised now and again, not just by the fuel league bollox ( sponsored by Tippex? ).
The management of so many companies should realise the gift they receive via dedicated workers, and I include CC, engineers, dispatchers etc. and stop regarding us as a necessary inconvenience come payday.
Back to thread: where are 200 (or 240, or 275) captains going to appear from by june, fuf hucks sake!! Most of the CU candidates at my base are saying they aren't interested, if it means a bond, a paycut, 5/3, and living on a desert island.
Liking the community service thing. Takes some nerve to give a skyline maximum beans with a skinful. Hope it wasn't a GTR. That rattling noise wasn't just the dry clutch, then....
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
From: uk
Could be.
That may not be entirely a bad thing, as a reasonable contract would need to be offered to tempt poeple away from the desert, plus it would break the chain of F/O-alike cadets only chasing a fast track, plus it would show some flexibility and pilot market responsiveness (is that a word?), and open up the market for eperienced SFOs.
On the other hand it would be a blow to the experienced SFOs holding out for a better deal.
There aren't any magic answers, as the flamers have shown when they criticise, but not constructively...
That may not be entirely a bad thing, as a reasonable contract would need to be offered to tempt poeple away from the desert, plus it would break the chain of F/O-alike cadets only chasing a fast track, plus it would show some flexibility and pilot market responsiveness (is that a word?), and open up the market for eperienced SFOs.
On the other hand it would be a blow to the experienced SFOs holding out for a better deal.
There aren't any magic answers, as the flamers have shown when they criticise, but not constructively...
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 338
Likes: 17
From: London
As i said in an earlier post, have heard management at RYR are getting seriously worried now by the numbers believed to be looking to jump elsewhere - looks like chaos looming - but much better news for pilots everywhere as a rapid change of offerings will be on the cards. Looks like RYR management are about to feel the wrath.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
From: In t'sky
16024,
Yes it would. While your suggestion that new guys will drive up T&C's is to be applauded, any better terms will not be implemented across the board. Look at the new cadets who come via brookfield at the moment, on less salary.
Bringing in DE pilots is what blocks the bases people want. I was told of a very plausible story of a guy from a UK base that got his command and was sent away to MAD or somewhere, even though there was a vacancy at his home base. The reason he didn't get it was cited as "Well, sorry, but it's been promised to a DEC coming from bmibaby".
When Ryanair has a more transparent basing policy and a list we can SEE that shows when we might get what base we want, i'm sure FO's will start to raise their hands to command again. As it stands, a ballpark figure of 2 years to get back to your family while you toil on 5/3 on the other side of Europe is not really good enough from an operator that has over 250 aircraft.
Yes it would. While your suggestion that new guys will drive up T&C's is to be applauded, any better terms will not be implemented across the board. Look at the new cadets who come via brookfield at the moment, on less salary.
Bringing in DE pilots is what blocks the bases people want. I was told of a very plausible story of a guy from a UK base that got his command and was sent away to MAD or somewhere, even though there was a vacancy at his home base. The reason he didn't get it was cited as "Well, sorry, but it's been promised to a DEC coming from bmibaby".
When Ryanair has a more transparent basing policy and a list we can SEE that shows when we might get what base we want, i'm sure FO's will start to raise their hands to command again. As it stands, a ballpark figure of 2 years to get back to your family while you toil on 5/3 on the other side of Europe is not really good enough from an operator that has over 250 aircraft.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Germany
like what is RYR used to say on itīs airplane:
"bye bye RYANAIR ..." 
well, will greedy management learn of this exodus?
Long term it doesnīt pay off, if you treat your own
staff miserable, it is only going to be expensive later.
Managers, show your staff respect and pay the what
the positions is worth.
At the end you will be doing yourself a favor.
RYR Pilots: show dignity and fight for better conditions!
well, will greedy management learn of this exodus?
Long term it doesnīt pay off, if you treat your own
staff miserable, it is only going to be expensive later.
Managers, show your staff respect and pay the what
the positions is worth.
At the end you will be doing yourself a favor.
RYR Pilots: show dignity and fight for better conditions!