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easyJet pilots, your management are taking the piss now

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easyJet pilots, your management are taking the piss now

Old 28th Feb 2010, 22:44
  #121 (permalink)  
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well at least we have clear demonstration as to the lack of understanding of the nature of the problem now - the only reason BALPA HQ are making any fuss at all is because the CC pushed them. As for the CAA, well the Easyjet OPs Inspector lives in cloud cuckoo land- apparently he is mighty impressed with the FRMS function and happy with the number of cadets coming through at present irrespective of their contract or lack thereof. It is not for the CC to determine strategic planning on industry matters- that is why the NEC exist. The outside world might not like it but the CC agenda has always been driven by the membership and I'm sure it will remain so.
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Old 28th Feb 2010, 23:05
  #122 (permalink)  
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He looked totally pissed off on this video
I'd be p*ssed off if I met George Monbiot. Odious little man.
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Old 1st Mar 2010, 08:29
  #123 (permalink)  
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Odious little man indeed, but whether or not you subscribe to his agenda , you have to admit he had Andy on his back foot.
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Old 1st Mar 2010, 09:15
  #124 (permalink)  
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What is BALPA?

I thought it is a trade union, which is formed by the workers.
So if EZY pilots belong to BALPA EZY, then it is EZY pilots who have to do something. Or are they waiting for BA BALPA pilots to do it?

Gentlemen: You have to move. You have to arrange meetings, discuss the situation (inminent, certain, deadly threat to your T&Cs) and then decide what actions to initiate. BALPA will provide assessment as to how to initiate actions, I guess. But all the initiative and the thrust for action needed to succeed in avoiding the torpedo can only stem from you.

As someone said:

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Old 1st Mar 2010, 09:52
  #125 (permalink)  
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Odious little man indeed, but whether or not you subscribe to his agenda , you have to admit he had Andy on his back foot.
AH seems to be very patient and polite, it would be funny to see this journalist interviewing O'Leary
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Old 1st Mar 2010, 10:31
  #126 (permalink)  
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There WILL be contract Captains next if you guys don't stop the rot.

It's only a matter of time.
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Old 1st Mar 2010, 19:31
  #127 (permalink)  
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the only reason we're not flooded with contract captains already, is that the BALPA CC stood it's ground and said NO. Contract F/O's are something the CC is trying it's best to improve, but as has been mentioned already, are only one of the many issues that concern the easy pilots.
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Old 1st Mar 2010, 20:07
  #128 (permalink)  
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the only reason we're not flooded with contract captains already, is that the BALPA CC stood it's ground and said NO. Contract F/O's are something the CC is trying it's best to improve, but as has been mentioned already, are only one of the many issues that concern the easy pilots.
So, easy,

Just to clarify, or play devils advocate here, contract captains are not in EZ because the BALPA CC put its foot down and said no..

By reasonable deduction, then, can we ascertain that Contract F/O positions are out there becuase the BALPA CC didn't put its foot down and say 'No!'

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Old 2nd Mar 2010, 07:36
  #129 (permalink)  
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It clearly follows.

Maybe EZY FOs should associate aside from captains.
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Old 2nd Mar 2010, 08:13
  #130 (permalink)  
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Dear Bruce and Microburst,

I think you'll find that easy F/O's are more concerned at DEC's taking their commands than pay-to-fly's 'taking' the summer jobs of unemployed but experienced F/O's.

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Old 2nd Mar 2010, 09:22
  #131 (permalink)  
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if that is the case then it seems to be a very bizzare view; like looking for the blindside, while ignoring dead ahead.

Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 2nd Mar 2010 at 09:38.
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Old 2nd Mar 2010, 09:42
  #132 (permalink)  
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Well Bruce, that has always been a major issue for me: the total lack of foresight and situational awareness by many EZY pilots and the CC!

Win the battle but lose the war, Penny wise, Pound foolish [worried about their own command (i.e. DEC's) but failing to see how cadets are undermining the entire T&C's], thinking tactically and not strategically, that sort of thing.

Hence the problems ahead...

But hey, what do I know, right? I've only been predicting these problems for the last couple of years or so...
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Old 2nd Mar 2010, 10:22
  #133 (permalink)  
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Yes there are other issues going on but the problem is partly because Balpa membership levels are not what they used to be inside easyJet.

Assuming membership is running at about 70%, any sort of ballot for industrial action would perhaps return say 70% of that (a fairly typical return).

And how many of those would care enough to say "yes"?
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Old 2nd Mar 2010, 11:40
  #134 (permalink)  
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Man Flex,

You know, a few months back when the discussion was ongoing about BALPA's 'Respect and Dignity' campaign toward FR, there was a lot of sanctimony about how great EZ was and the T&C's were so much better in EZ because of BALPA...

... seems very hollow now, even more so in consideration of your post above.

BALPA membership at 70%, THAT'S still not enough?

That just tells me that BALPA is not doing what it says on the tin.

(ref: figures in BALPA poll thread)
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 16:40
  #135 (permalink)  
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I really can't believe what I'm reading. I think based on the poll and what's been written on a number of threads so far a distinct separation is forming between big (national) BALPA and little (local/company) BALPA.

Maybe its not enough that the trend is having your own little company specific union i.e.


but now maybe we should be looking at further splitting i.e.



and on and on and on, each with their own agenda's, specific membership cards, reps and level of influence over the management. Obviously this is a nonsense, the whole reason a union works is that the majority pull together for the common good. I can understand management rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of divide and conquer (Jesus, we established an empire by employing it) but when pilots start aligning themselves it is bloody worrying.

What I've read is the EZY CC made a stand with Capt's but didn't follow up with the same gusto for FO's. What message does that send about your fellow colleagues and industry as a whole.

Maybe its time we remembered that while we all (industry wide) tend to support a change in relations/interaction with airport security and rest being a 'big' issue, to suggest this current EZY behaviour can't be taken on and addressed nationally combined with a lack of evidence of any action makes me glad my subs stay in my bank account.

Last edited by Dreamshiner; 3rd Mar 2010 at 16:59.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 17:17
  #136 (permalink)  
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What I see happening in the next few months/years:

With the upturn, and most legacy carriers finding themselves suddenly short of crew, attrition will skyrocket, as most FO's will not see EZY as a viable long-term employer. If that happens, then no matter how many contractors are pulled in, the operation will fall appart, experience levels will dwindle, safety will be impacted (despite all the BS from H89).

Some FO's are already waiting in various holding pools/looking elsewhere. The problems are only just starting, believe me.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:31
  #137 (permalink)  
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History Repeats

The one thing about Airline Management is how bad they are at looking anywhere else other than far enough ahead to their next bonus! They certainly will never look over their shoulder's at even the recent past of just a few short years ago. Easy's lot are particularly "blinkered" and arogant in this respect. 2003 here we come!

Happy days Silvertop
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 22:42
  #138 (permalink)  
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There is so much rubbish on this thread about BALPA that it really is quite embarassing. Dreamshiner has, for reasons best known to himself, taken out a personal vendetta against BALPA and just rants on with virtually no substance to his complaints. The statements by Cmon-PullUP are equally foolish - they simply are not true. What is being presented about BALPA only caring for Captains or BA employees or fighting 'small' battles instead of 'big' ones is just utter drivel. More importantly, these statements are being presented as fact to a gullible audience who take it as gospel truth.

From where I sit, BALPA are fighting a vigorous battle on several fronts at easyJet. They have full-time line pilots giving their every spare hour to the work of BALPA - only to be met by a torrent of abuse by some of the people I have mentioned plus several others. It frankly disgusts me to listen to the whining of people who can barely lift a finger to assist - but have hours of free time to rubbish something they should have supported. If you want to be a pathetic whiner, please feel free - just at least have some substantiated evidence to back up your assertions. Personally I would rather poke pins in my eyes than listen to some of this stuff - it really becomes so utterly tedious. Just try and be part of the solution rather than most of the problem.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 23:03
  #139 (permalink)  
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I thought you had left Planet Earth, welcome back.

Do you think that the rot will be stopped and easyJet will start to offer perm jobs with the going rate, not the crap on offer from CTC or PARC
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Old 4th Mar 2010, 00:54
  #140 (permalink)  
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NSF, I see why you were locked up, Mr MacKay has some questions to answer with respect to not losing your key. However I'll address your Horlicks induced rant and reply accordingly.

My reasons are I was a card carrying BALPA member, I was left feeling disenfranchised as the organisations top brass seemed more concerned with going for easy solutions to low priority issues rather than take on the big pertinent ones. As a result I started a poll after my opinions and views were questioned in another thread essentially to see if my thoughts and feelings were out of kilter with the general consensus. As for why have so much time to post on here, well, like a great number of our colleagues find myself unemployed and not feeling the union did all it could.

You attacked me for starting the poll, and while it is by no means perfect, when typing this reply there had been 600 votes. Of current membership 62% look upon the body negatively compared to 38% who are in the positive camp. Of all people who have held BALPA membership (therefore including the cancelled members) 72% think its ineffective balanced with 28% who are content or impressed with its performance. Thirdly, of those never holding membership for whatever reason, for every one person who think they are doing a good job, 11 think they are not. Am I and the poll I started responsible for this perception?

When you question motives and run someone down for starting a poll, to vote on post #3 (and not comment negatively) kind of endorses it in a masochistic way ... or don't you agree?

The substance to my argument is rubber stamped as I find myself in a group of people who are intelligent to distinguish that BALPA HQ is far away from the individual CC's and the reps who give up their time. I also find myself in a group that outnumbers people with your stance 3 to 1.

You have offered nothing except preaching idolatry and subservience despite the outcomes or results of the union. I was initially advised as a child to only offer blind faith to an organised religion, which I rejected when I was old enough to research and think for myself. Something I subsequently ignored when I discovered science and dinosaurs. I was also taught to avoid throwing good money after bad.

I will not stand idly by as I see the industry I invested £120,000 in destroyed by inactivity, ineffectiveness, division and ambivalence. I am not looking to disband BALPA, I am looking for it to reinvent itself, wake up and take on the rough with the smooth. I think it needs a serious reorganisation of its top personnel, resources and strategies going forward. I have offered suggestions and initiatives that could be employed going forward. What else would you see me do short of a high court gagging order.

I doubt you will change your opinion as I will mine but if nothing else I pondered some of your suggestions and comments as I hope you have with mine and applied your arguments against the points I have made to date to see if they have merit or flaw.

You are more than entitled to a public right to reply. However we could easily turn this into a personal tet-a-tet. I suggest it may be better to continue on PM to ensure the integrity of this thread and the title.
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