Validation Pilots put Icelandair and Jar pilots out work
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Validation Pilots put Icelandair and Jar pilots out work
Why should a company employ NON JAR pilots on validations while JAR rated pilots sit at home no money!!!! Why.
santa barbara airline have 2 JAR registered B767 dry least from smartlynx. Canadian/mauritius fleet cheif has no jar license ONLY a canadian license with a validation that is more than 3 years old!! also two other american on same deal! ICELANDAIR own smartlynx and have many of it's pilots sitting at home unemployed! how and why can this happen?
also there is a growing voice in santa barbara because our pilots now rescent this. we also have spanish and italian friends that have JAR license also no work.
STOP STOP this. can a JAR pilot work in canada or america? No Never!!
icelandair union stand up on your feet
santa barbara airline have 2 JAR registered B767 dry least from smartlynx. Canadian/mauritius fleet cheif has no jar license ONLY a canadian license with a validation that is more than 3 years old!! also two other american on same deal! ICELANDAIR own smartlynx and have many of it's pilots sitting at home unemployed! how and why can this happen?
also there is a growing voice in santa barbara because our pilots now rescent this. we also have spanish and italian friends that have JAR license also no work.
STOP STOP this. can a JAR pilot work in canada or america? No Never!!
icelandair union stand up on your feet
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Actually, wrong. JAR-Pilots can and do work in Canada every winter. They do get some transition training and a validation and then just fly the holiday charter stuff.
The USA of course is a different thing alltogether and not a level playing field, never has been, never will.
The USA of course is a different thing alltogether and not a level playing field, never has been, never will.
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Denti NO you are wrong.
you are thinking a bilateral agreement between two airlines to relieve crew sortage between on and off season in different countries.. That is what a validation is used for.
if a pilot works in canada then they must convert to a canadian license otherwise everybody would just fly everywhere
you are thinking a bilateral agreement between two airlines to relieve crew sortage between on and off season in different countries.. That is what a validation is used for.
if a pilot works in canada then they must convert to a canadian license otherwise everybody would just fly everywhere
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Denti if other pilots comes to your country and work with in appropriate licence i am very sure you would be the first to make complaints!!!!
why would you suggest this is ok?
why would you suggest this is ok?
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Validation v right to work
I think you all have this a bit wrong. A validation is not what you make it appear to be, a work permit. There are validation conditions that are set forth in JAR/EASA FCL and immigration legalities are not one of them.
Amy EU-Citizens still today hold another licence other than JAA ATPL. Reasons are many, but the fact remains that they are eligible for work should they meet the "Validation conditions" of FCL , the company they have applied to are willing to do this and the respective CAA approves.
Issue Paco brings up is an immigration matter not a licencing issue. But since it is difficult to control pilots working illegally, perhaps it is time to amend the validation conditons to require " Right to work"?
A non-EU citizen working for an EU company while EU-Citizens get sent home to unemployment is the issue. Iceland is part of Schengen-agreement though not part of EU. And while Smartlynx is part of the Icelandair group, Icelanders regardless of their contractual agreements with the parent company do NOT take precedence to existing employees or rather contractors other then those that are not from Schengen or EU-countries or have been employed later.
I have no problems for people, pilots or not, working in EU or any other country, but one should have the required permits. One does not go and fly in China without these so why should Europe be any different. I admit that our immigration is overwhelmed with 3rd world immigrants so foreign pilots seem to slip throught the net.
A few years back Latcharter or today Smartlynx decided to contract a large amount of Canadian and American pilots to be based in LGW (Gatwick) on a Virgin Nigeria contract. None had UK work visas or right to abode in Europe. Though flying between UK and Nigeria spending large parts of off time in UK and having been based there while working for a JAROPS 1 operator from another EU country would have certainly required these individuals to be in posession either or both the UK workpermit and or Schengen residence permit.
Hope this clears up the issue a bit.
Amy EU-Citizens still today hold another licence other than JAA ATPL. Reasons are many, but the fact remains that they are eligible for work should they meet the "Validation conditions" of FCL , the company they have applied to are willing to do this and the respective CAA approves.
Issue Paco brings up is an immigration matter not a licencing issue. But since it is difficult to control pilots working illegally, perhaps it is time to amend the validation conditons to require " Right to work"?
A non-EU citizen working for an EU company while EU-Citizens get sent home to unemployment is the issue. Iceland is part of Schengen-agreement though not part of EU. And while Smartlynx is part of the Icelandair group, Icelanders regardless of their contractual agreements with the parent company do NOT take precedence to existing employees or rather contractors other then those that are not from Schengen or EU-countries or have been employed later.
I have no problems for people, pilots or not, working in EU or any other country, but one should have the required permits. One does not go and fly in China without these so why should Europe be any different. I admit that our immigration is overwhelmed with 3rd world immigrants so foreign pilots seem to slip throught the net.
A few years back Latcharter or today Smartlynx decided to contract a large amount of Canadian and American pilots to be based in LGW (Gatwick) on a Virgin Nigeria contract. None had UK work visas or right to abode in Europe. Though flying between UK and Nigeria spending large parts of off time in UK and having been based there while working for a JAROPS 1 operator from another EU country would have certainly required these individuals to be in posession either or both the UK workpermit and or Schengen residence permit.
Hope this clears up the issue a bit.
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Hola paco59 . . . is there some kind of magic about flying with a "JAR" license?
You are concerned about non-JAR pilots putting euro pilots out of work?
Actually, there are lots of jobs available for current and qualified "JAR" pilots in the desert, in asia, including Korea, China, Vietnam. . .
But some of the well qualified, unemployed euro boys have become very unhappy campers living and flying in 3RD world countries.
The euro boys are coming into the desert and into asia with too much baggage: Obnoxious egos; escalating expectations and demands.
The euro culture of entitlement is not condusive to working as guest workers on foreign turf, nor working as second class citizens in the sand box.
You are concerned about non-JAR pilots putting euro pilots out of work?
Actually, there are lots of jobs available for current and qualified "JAR" pilots in the desert, in asia, including Korea, China, Vietnam. . .
But some of the well qualified, unemployed euro boys have become very unhappy campers living and flying in 3RD world countries.
The euro boys are coming into the desert and into asia with too much baggage: Obnoxious egos; escalating expectations and demands.
The euro culture of entitlement is not condusive to working as guest workers on foreign turf, nor working as second class citizens in the sand box.
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A validation only allows one to fly an aircraft of registry in the country in question as long as they have their airman certificate, and medical in their possession from their "home country".
A validation does not allow one to earn Euro one in any state/country unless said individual has in their possession a valid work visa/permit to which a job is sought after.
I had to obtain a Brazilian Validation to ferry an airplane from Texas to Rio about 20 years ago. The ferry company was based in the US, thus no work visa/permit was required.
I was inconvenienced
with a trip to Rio, on the company's nickel. It was terrible... the beaches... the food... the beer... and....er hem... I'll spare you the details. Anyway... had to take the medical, and visit the DGCA to get the validation. As I recall, no written exams were required.
I did have to provide verification that I was employed by a US company and was not going to be paid cruzeros before the validation was issued.
A validation does not allow one to earn Euro one in any state/country unless said individual has in their possession a valid work visa/permit to which a job is sought after.
I had to obtain a Brazilian Validation to ferry an airplane from Texas to Rio about 20 years ago. The ferry company was based in the US, thus no work visa/permit was required.
I was inconvenienced
with a trip to Rio, on the company's nickel. It was terrible... the beaches... the food... the beer... and....er hem... I'll spare you the details. Anyway... had to take the medical, and visit the DGCA to get the validation. As I recall, no written exams were required.I did have to provide verification that I was employed by a US company and was not going to be paid cruzeros before the validation was issued.
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747JJ is right on the ball.
747JJ is correct in all aspect.
However do not forget that it up to the country in this case Iceland or Latvia to issue validations or not. If they are braking any EU rules I do not know. I have heard with EASA that the issuing of validations should end next year. I do know pilots who just had their validations renewed for 1 year i.e. until october 2010. The Icelandic pilot union had tihis case presented to EFTA and the Icelandic official there kept loosing the paperwork and asking for more until the case died in their hands. Also the icelandic ministry of employment has been told to answer the issue by the Ombudsman for the Parliament.
The ministry keeps ignoring it. This is an Icelandic inhouse problem due to corruption in the goverment. However do not forget that the canadians opened up temporarily to icelandic qualified people (Not pilots though) in the crisis since they need laborers in some fields. It cannot be ignored that in some countries airlines are allowed under certain circumstances to hire people with know how like when airlines are starting new types of fleet or other startups to bring in people on temporary basis. I remember meeting Boeing employees training B747-400 startup for a EU carrier in Luxemboug.
Once the training is done they go home. As I understand this issue was raised with the EALPA and has gone nowhere. Caledonean later Flying Colours and later Thompson hired US pilots in 1999. Australian pilots came to EU after being locked out (Most went to Asian carriers). If the carriers find a loophole they will use it. Like BA is trying to do with AA. If they get away with it is another issue.
However do not forget that it up to the country in this case Iceland or Latvia to issue validations or not. If they are braking any EU rules I do not know. I have heard with EASA that the issuing of validations should end next year. I do know pilots who just had their validations renewed for 1 year i.e. until october 2010. The Icelandic pilot union had tihis case presented to EFTA and the Icelandic official there kept loosing the paperwork and asking for more until the case died in their hands. Also the icelandic ministry of employment has been told to answer the issue by the Ombudsman for the Parliament.
The ministry keeps ignoring it. This is an Icelandic inhouse problem due to corruption in the goverment. However do not forget that the canadians opened up temporarily to icelandic qualified people (Not pilots though) in the crisis since they need laborers in some fields. It cannot be ignored that in some countries airlines are allowed under certain circumstances to hire people with know how like when airlines are starting new types of fleet or other startups to bring in people on temporary basis. I remember meeting Boeing employees training B747-400 startup for a EU carrier in Luxemboug.
Once the training is done they go home. As I understand this issue was raised with the EALPA and has gone nowhere. Caledonean later Flying Colours and later Thompson hired US pilots in 1999. Australian pilots came to EU after being locked out (Most went to Asian carriers). If the carriers find a loophole they will use it. Like BA is trying to do with AA. If they get away with it is another issue.
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I have a validation..I fly a JAR reg'd aircraft......oh, wait, I also have an EU passport.
Why do I have a validation again??
Hey GlueBall,
you can't make that count; it's part of the basic training!!
"The euro boys are coming into the desert and into asia with too much baggage: Obnoxious egos"
Why do I have a validation again??
Hey GlueBall,
you can't make that count; it's part of the basic training!!
"The euro boys are coming into the desert and into asia with too much baggage: Obnoxious egos"
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747JJ
..in this case Iceland or Latvia to issue validations or not.
Latvia have issued these validations for the 3rd year!!! If Icelandair own smartlynx/latcharter and with icelandair pilots sitting at home unemployed why does the company allow this!!! I do not understand!? why not icelandair just tell latvia to withdraw the validations and employ icelandair pilots....crazy people or very very weak icelandair pilot union...
my colleague just operate a flight from madrid to caracas with canadian PG he was saying impossible to remove him because he has to much influence in smartlynx and he not care about icelandair pilots sitting at home.
..in this case Iceland or Latvia to issue validations or not.
Latvia have issued these validations for the 3rd year!!! If Icelandair own smartlynx/latcharter and with icelandair pilots sitting at home unemployed why does the company allow this!!! I do not understand!? why not icelandair just tell latvia to withdraw the validations and employ icelandair pilots....crazy people or very very weak icelandair pilot union...
my colleague just operate a flight from madrid to caracas with canadian PG he was saying impossible to remove him because he has to much influence in smartlynx and he not care about icelandair pilots sitting at home.
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Rafael767...
Are you referring to the individual as a fleet manager... or chief pilot?
If he is the fleet manager, I can't believe the company or you local avation inspectors would allow him to be in suc a position.
If he is the chief pilot, he only needs to be type on one of the aircraft types that is in your fleet compliment. If you only have 767s, then a type rating is required.
Not withstanding the fact that this guy is not the most popular guy on the property... are the statements fact, or are they heresay??? just out of curiousity.
Are you referring to the individual as a fleet manager... or chief pilot?
If he is the fleet manager, I can't believe the company or you local avation inspectors would allow him to be in suc a position.
If he is the chief pilot, he only needs to be type on one of the aircraft types that is in your fleet compliment. If you only have 767s, then a type rating is required.
Not withstanding the fact that this guy is not the most popular guy on the property... are the statements fact, or are they heresay??? just out of curiousity.
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ICAO level 4 English
Its a good thing all professional pilots must be able to pass the level 4 ICAO English test. That way when someone is posting with absolutely horrible English I can surmise that it is a non-pilot posting. Right???
Before you start flaming, I am not a native English speaker. I couldn't say more than milk, bread and beer when I was 16. (And very often beer came out as bear).
Before you start flaming, I am not a native English speaker. I couldn't say more than milk, bread and beer when I was 16. (And very often beer came out as bear).
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DA50Driver,
Why would you decide to write about my English? You should have a look at your grammar!? I speak Four, Yes 4 Languages. So, Please write something regarding this thread. Or spend some time with your wife and Kids!! As, I can see you have over 100 posts!!
This problem of the three Non JAR pilots will soon be fixed. The Icelandair pilots will remove the Mauritius/Canadian and other two pilots very soon. Seems like the unemployed icelandair pilots didn't know that the 3 Smartlynx pilots did not have a NON JAR license and were using very old validations.
Also, With the steady stream of complaints about the Smartlynx Mauritius Fleet Chief. Who continues to knock the working practices of the Icelnadair pilots!! (Not in front of their faces.) Makes it easy to remove him.
When Smartlynx simply finished the 767 pilots without notice and termination pay. This PG Fleet Chief did absolutely nothing?!! More to the fact he was instrumental in making his bed in SB airlines because he knew the Smartlynx plan of finishing the 767 pilots long before it actually happened.
So lets see if he can now find a job amongst all the people he has hurt.. pi**** on in the past!!
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND
Why would you decide to write about my English? You should have a look at your grammar!? I speak Four, Yes 4 Languages. So, Please write something regarding this thread. Or spend some time with your wife and Kids!! As, I can see you have over 100 posts!!
This problem of the three Non JAR pilots will soon be fixed. The Icelandair pilots will remove the Mauritius/Canadian and other two pilots very soon. Seems like the unemployed icelandair pilots didn't know that the 3 Smartlynx pilots did not have a NON JAR license and were using very old validations.
Also, With the steady stream of complaints about the Smartlynx Mauritius Fleet Chief. Who continues to knock the working practices of the Icelnadair pilots!! (Not in front of their faces.) Makes it easy to remove him.
When Smartlynx simply finished the 767 pilots without notice and termination pay. This PG Fleet Chief did absolutely nothing?!! More to the fact he was instrumental in making his bed in SB airlines because he knew the Smartlynx plan of finishing the 767 pilots long before it actually happened.
So lets see if he can now find a job amongst all the people he has hurt.. pi**** on in the past!!
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND
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Guys ,
The point being missed is that the aforementioned PG has not been much more than 5-6 years in the left hand seat. If he has at any time completed a formal TRI course that he has claimed needs to be questioned by the Latvian CAA. His training qualification might poss be nothing more than Parker 57 flight time so to speak. You guys at SB need to ask some serious questions. I agree with a previous poster "What goes around comes around". His arrogance has blinded him to the realities of the present situation.
The point being missed is that the aforementioned PG has not been much more than 5-6 years in the left hand seat. If he has at any time completed a formal TRI course that he has claimed needs to be questioned by the Latvian CAA. His training qualification might poss be nothing more than Parker 57 flight time so to speak. You guys at SB need to ask some serious questions. I agree with a previous poster "What goes around comes around". His arrogance has blinded him to the realities of the present situation.
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Here at SB Airlines we are proud of our standards. This is why we are asking serious questions about this smartlynx fleet chief. We have found out that he has NEVER completed any form of instructional training! And yes he has only been a Captain for 5 years. AAI made him into a captain. He constantly gives the impression that he was a captain for many years 12 or so. He informs the junior 767 captains (who he is line training now) that he was made a captain with Air Mauritius. This however was not the case!! His integrity is very low or nothing.
I and my colleagues here at SB airline enjoy the Icelandair training pilots approach and professionalism. It is therefore so annoying that some of or many of them still sit at home unemployed. whilst 3 NON JAR pilots work here. The 3 smartlynx pilot consist of one PG who we have talked about also another pilot from south america whom ONLY got made to captain 1 1/2 years ago, who also has never had any training experience or instructional experience. BUT what is so terrible this guy has never flown ETOPS prior to this SB contract and yet (He was given 2 sectors by PG on ETOPS)he now teaches the ETOPS here!!! and finally the American Pilot also NON JAR is retired and collects a pension from his American airline whiles other European/smartlynx pilots are unemployed.
If they are not removed soon (if the icelandair union doesnot remove them) then we here at SB airline will take action.
WE ARE NOT HAPPY
I and my colleagues here at SB airline enjoy the Icelandair training pilots approach and professionalism. It is therefore so annoying that some of or many of them still sit at home unemployed. whilst 3 NON JAR pilots work here. The 3 smartlynx pilot consist of one PG who we have talked about also another pilot from south america whom ONLY got made to captain 1 1/2 years ago, who also has never had any training experience or instructional experience. BUT what is so terrible this guy has never flown ETOPS prior to this SB contract and yet (He was given 2 sectors by PG on ETOPS)he now teaches the ETOPS here!!! and finally the American Pilot also NON JAR is retired and collects a pension from his American airline whiles other European/smartlynx pilots are unemployed.
If they are not removed soon (if the icelandair union doesnot remove them) then we here at SB airline will take action.
WE ARE NOT HAPPY
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Pilots taking action.
What bullsh*t.
What will happen is more backstabbing, cheating, lying, and nefarious double dealing to try to get into pole position up the colon of the nearest boss.
As it has always been, and always will.
l had to keep checking the posted date to make sure these are 2009 !
What will happen is more backstabbing, cheating, lying, and nefarious double dealing to try to get into pole position up the colon of the nearest boss.
As it has always been, and always will.
l had to keep checking the posted date to make sure these are 2009 !
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Rafael767 & paco 59,
Im surprised you have a problem with the Argentinian Capt and the American, HC is a fine gentleman.
Maybe you guys should stay on task, that is, fly your pax from A to B. Rather than this rant about your liking and the professional experience of the CP/FM.
I'm sure Smartlynx knew his professional background and they are comfortable with it, as well as the Latvian CAA.
What makes you think if Icelandic pilots are brought in, you would like them?
There are no laws being broken here, Smartlynx is a charter company, using crews from all over to fly contracts all over.
Im surprised you have a problem with the Argentinian Capt and the American, HC is a fine gentleman.
Maybe you guys should stay on task, that is, fly your pax from A to B. Rather than this rant about your liking and the professional experience of the CP/FM.
I'm sure Smartlynx knew his professional background and they are comfortable with it, as well as the Latvian CAA.
What makes you think if Icelandic pilots are brought in, you would like them?
There are no laws being broken here, Smartlynx is a charter company, using crews from all over to fly contracts all over.
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NDB 17
Icelandair brought in!! They are here doing a good job. You see we are not complaining about them. Because they are correctly licensed, Have EU passport. They are very professional and are nice people to work with. Above all the are experienced.
HC is a nice man BUT he is here with no right to work in Europe, he also has no JAR license. The Argintinian also has no JAR license or right to work in Europe. He also has very little experience. Never should he be teaching very low hour pilots from ATRs with 100hrs on 767. Straight into the left seat from a ATR to 767!!!
When you consider this and so so many pilots here out of work then it MUST stop and they must leave. Regarding the Canadian fleet chief... nobody wants a person like this in our company..
Soon we will make a protest to remove him because the Latvian seem not to care!! AND CARE WE DO
Icelandair brought in!! They are here doing a good job. You see we are not complaining about them. Because they are correctly licensed, Have EU passport. They are very professional and are nice people to work with. Above all the are experienced.
HC is a nice man BUT he is here with no right to work in Europe, he also has no JAR license. The Argintinian also has no JAR license or right to work in Europe. He also has very little experience. Never should he be teaching very low hour pilots from ATRs with 100hrs on 767. Straight into the left seat from a ATR to 767!!!
When you consider this and so so many pilots here out of work then it MUST stop and they must leave. Regarding the Canadian fleet chief... nobody wants a person like this in our company..
Soon we will make a protest to remove him because the Latvian seem not to care!! AND CARE WE DO
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Do any of you guys at SB have valid JAA licences? Or, do any of you have valid EU passports? I think not, but that's okey so, what's the problem? Please explain the situation as, it all depends on what type of contract, does SB have with the Icelandic company ie: ACMI, a wet or dry lease?
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NO NEED for the SB airlines pilots have JAR licenses. as it is a leased aircraft. It is like a US Airline landing in Europe.
However, The Smartlynx pilots must be JAR to operate a JAR aircraft. And must have the right to work in the EU.The aircraft is registration in Latvia so is an EU JAA registed aircraft. They also don't have work permits and finally they are on validations that are more than 3 years. ALL THIS is wrong.
PG fleet chief is not wanted in this airline for many reason to ad to the about.
MPH if these guys came to your airline with no license or permit to reside also with wrong and attitude with also made up experience then you would not like.
However, The Smartlynx pilots must be JAR to operate a JAR aircraft. And must have the right to work in the EU.The aircraft is registration in Latvia so is an EU JAA registed aircraft. They also don't have work permits and finally they are on validations that are more than 3 years. ALL THIS is wrong.
PG fleet chief is not wanted in this airline for many reason to ad to the about.
MPH if these guys came to your airline with no license or permit to reside also with wrong and attitude with also made up experience then you would not like.