RYANAIR thoughts
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Leo Hairy Camel = Anti British
yourvoteyourvoice - very good posts.A complete contast to the anti union rhetoric posted on here by those who wish to keep others down while they are well taken care of by ryanair to spout their misinformed and misleading union busting rubbish(or ANTI BRITISH posts in the case of Leo Hairy Camel).The simple facts are that ryanair pilots whatever colour,creed or contract are getting poorer and poorer,in real terms in stark contrast to other companies while being treated like absolute slaves,in the pursuit of profit.The ryanair management stooges and misinformed cabin crew who post on here can plead that this is not the right time or offer up any other excuses,along with some posting here who are undoubtedly management plants,wish to see the status quo maintained to the continued detriment of ryanair pilots livelihoods.
The fact is that all that stands between ryanair management slashing terms and conditions much further has always been and is now the threat of union recognition,should recognition vote fail through apathy or ignorance.This will lead to this protection being lost for 3 years during which time ryanair management will rape at will and the pilots in ryanair have no where to go.so to say that it is someone elses problem is no longer good enough.this is a ryanair pilot problem of which they hold the solution.use it or you will pay well for not!!
The fact is that all that stands between ryanair management slashing terms and conditions much further has always been and is now the threat of union recognition,should recognition vote fail through apathy or ignorance.This will lead to this protection being lost for 3 years during which time ryanair management will rape at will and the pilots in ryanair have no where to go.so to say that it is someone elses problem is no longer good enough.this is a ryanair pilot problem of which they hold the solution.use it or you will pay well for not!!
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BALPA getting one over MOL.???????.............
....I think not!
MOL will beat BALPA on this no matter what it takes or what the collateral damage is.
He will close bases and move jobs abroad.
MOL will beat BALPA on this no matter what it takes or what the collateral damage is.
He will close bases and move jobs abroad.
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So guys, tell me, if Balpa get in and Ryanair close down all UK bases, 5/2 roster and send us abroad how will you feel then?
Will you stand by the crew room door and say to all those CCMs and engineers who loose their jobs that Balpa is the way forward?
Will you still stand by Balpa and say how much "good" they've done then?
What about when Balpa and FR meet for "negotiations" -
Balpa "pilots want their 5/4 roster back"
Ryanair "No"
What can Balpa do then - organise a strike? Great - even more job losses.
Ryanair do not have to do anything they dont want to do.
If balpa are NOT elected in, for the next 3 years things will certainly be better than if they were!
Will you stand by the crew room door and say to all those CCMs and engineers who loose their jobs that Balpa is the way forward?
Will you still stand by Balpa and say how much "good" they've done then?
What about when Balpa and FR meet for "negotiations" -
Balpa "pilots want their 5/4 roster back"
Ryanair "No"
What can Balpa do then - organise a strike? Great - even more job losses.
Ryanair do not have to do anything they dont want to do.
If balpa are NOT elected in, for the next 3 years things will certainly be better than if they were!
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Bilderberger - on what basis are those assumptions made,because mol has said so?well then you are a bigger idiot than he is to believe them.But then is suppose there is no need to have a scrap of integrity or even use your own ideas as long as you are home every night.
No commandb - if ryanair have a 3 year union recognition ban,you will be raped even harder as was the case the last time around.But i suppose 3 years may be a career for some.
No commandb - if ryanair have a 3 year union recognition ban,you will be raped even harder as was the case the last time around.But i suppose 3 years may be a career for some.
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The simple facts are that ryanair pilots whatever colour,creed or contract are getting poorer and poorer,in real terms in stark contrast to other companies
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yourvoteyourchoice,
I see your BALPA Gods spent something close to £470,000 on lunches and meetings (or Members' and other admin expenses as you call it)
Is the meal deal from Boots we all have for work not good enough for you?
I see your BALPA Gods spent something close to £470,000 on lunches and meetings (or Members' and other admin expenses as you call it)
Is the meal deal from Boots we all have for work not good enough for you?
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Grim Repa
These 'assumptions' are made on MOL's past performance.
I think the chances of MOL being rolled over by BALPA are zero.
Come to think of it someone should run a book!
These 'assumptions' are made on MOL's past performance.
I think the chances of MOL being rolled over by BALPA are zero.
Come to think of it someone should run a book!
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I would still like someone from BALPA or a BALPA hardliner to spell out exactly what the benefits will be?
Not tree hugging "improvements to the T & C's" but some definitive and tangible declaration of how our lives will be better.
Incidentally the "blatant mistruth" in the email I got is actually in the Employment Act:
But then I guess that's just more BALPA bullsh1t 
Not tree hugging "improvements to the T & C's" but some definitive and tangible declaration of how our lives will be better.
Incidentally the "blatant mistruth" in the email I got is actually in the Employment Act:
4) Within the acceptance period the CAC must decide, with regard to each relevant application, whether the 10 per cent test is satisfied.
(5) The 10 per cent test is satisfied if members of the union (or unions) constitute at least 10 per cent of the workers constituting the relevant bargaining unit.
(6) The acceptance period is—
(a) the period of 10 working days starting with the day after that on which the CAC receives the last relevant application, or
(b) such longer period (so starting) as the CAC may specify to the parties by notice containing reasons for the extension.
(7) If the CAC decides that—
(a) the 10 per cent test is satisfied with regard to more than one of the relevant applications, or
(b) the 10 per cent test is satisfied with regard to none of the relevant applications,
the CAC must not accept any of the relevant applications.
(8) If the CAC decides that the 10 per cent test is satisfied with regard to one only of the relevant applications the CAC—
(a) must proceed under paragraph 15 with regard to that application, and
(b) must not accept any of the other relevant applications.
(5) The 10 per cent test is satisfied if members of the union (or unions) constitute at least 10 per cent of the workers constituting the relevant bargaining unit.
(6) The acceptance period is—
(a) the period of 10 working days starting with the day after that on which the CAC receives the last relevant application, or
(b) such longer period (so starting) as the CAC may specify to the parties by notice containing reasons for the extension.
(7) If the CAC decides that—
(a) the 10 per cent test is satisfied with regard to more than one of the relevant applications, or
(b) the 10 per cent test is satisfied with regard to none of the relevant applications,
the CAC must not accept any of the relevant applications.
(8) If the CAC decides that the 10 per cent test is satisfied with regard to one only of the relevant applications the CAC—
(a) must proceed under paragraph 15 with regard to that application, and
(b) must not accept any of the other relevant applications.
Last edited by The Real Slim Shady; 1st Jul 2009 at 11:15. Reason: Spelling
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Abusing the Sky - We are talking about the long term careers of pilots. And you are CC, no disrespect to you as your partner is a pilot. But your career and training is not that of a pilot and as such sarcastic comments, probably born out of your partners opinion and your own vested interests are not welcome. I would never try and involve myself in your career. It is not for you to decide the careers of other pilots, or to rush to judgements. but it is for your partner, who has valid concerns and questions and if you support his opinion as a pilot, then that is fair enough. I appreciate, that if things don't go his way that impacts you. Just as all decisions will affect other crews with partners/families & ties. It is for each pilot to weigh up the facts and make their own judgement, and then decide in their own career interest, and for what they perceive is either the best long term (if thats your view) or short term (if thats your view). but rest assured the majority will decide. As for the food, now where did you get that info, your fella, maybe they should buy it in Romania rather than Boots, surely that would save a few leu & bani ??
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bilderberger - can you give me some examples of those prior action in closing pilot bases and moving pilot jobs abroad due to pilot unions that ryanair have perpetrated?curious.
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And so a pie fight ensues.
I have to be honest, while it does appear that perhaps in a viable climate there might be perhaps be an argument for some form of unionisation in fr, is it really worth it?
Would the benefits really out way the suffering along the way?
I mean this in the nicest way, but all you old boys out there who still hold onto the romance that is aviation - wake up times have changed. When you have an FNG who is prepared to fork out 40k for a job and then earn SFA, what chance do we have.
Face it 'bare faced terry', you need the fr pilots more than they need you. The low cost army is the future, while B***** All is dead in the water.
I mean this be a constructive post and not a rant at other peoples expense.
Times have changed and so has the industry. The dignity and respect is not what those pilgrims of fallen companies might once have strived for. May I suggest that in the present economic climate, a job fulfils the dignity prerequisite and the respect is being able to put food on your families table!
Now is not the time to fight for terms and conditions, now is the time to pull together and thus safe guard our jobs.
The boss's at fr do what they do, and they do it well. The fact is that we forced them into the UK base freeze, and thus we are costing the company money.
So Balpa, go away, become an attractive proposition, and if you still exist in a few years, come back at a more appropriate time!
I have to be honest, while it does appear that perhaps in a viable climate there might be perhaps be an argument for some form of unionisation in fr, is it really worth it?
Would the benefits really out way the suffering along the way?
I mean this in the nicest way, but all you old boys out there who still hold onto the romance that is aviation - wake up times have changed. When you have an FNG who is prepared to fork out 40k for a job and then earn SFA, what chance do we have.
Face it 'bare faced terry', you need the fr pilots more than they need you. The low cost army is the future, while B***** All is dead in the water.
I mean this be a constructive post and not a rant at other peoples expense.
Times have changed and so has the industry. The dignity and respect is not what those pilgrims of fallen companies might once have strived for. May I suggest that in the present economic climate, a job fulfils the dignity prerequisite and the respect is being able to put food on your families table!
Now is not the time to fight for terms and conditions, now is the time to pull together and thus safe guard our jobs.
The boss's at fr do what they do, and they do it well. The fact is that we forced them into the UK base freeze, and thus we are costing the company money.
So Balpa, go away, become an attractive proposition, and if you still exist in a few years, come back at a more appropriate time!
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Why is it not a good time for to have representation from BALPA ??????
Presently our jobs are hanging by a very fragile thread, and at the whim of bad managerial decisions. Any job losses will be down to the pig headed decision made in the White House. Peoples lives have already been turned upside down, caught in the middle of the battle between the Government over increased taxes.
Uk bases have already been frozen with the threat of closures.
Can the current CEO afford to take on a United Pilot Group. Can he afford to be seen to lose another Half Billion Plus. Maybe his luck has run out and it's time for a fresh change for Ryanair.
Presently our jobs are hanging by a very fragile thread, and at the whim of bad managerial decisions. Any job losses will be down to the pig headed decision made in the White House. Peoples lives have already been turned upside down, caught in the middle of the battle between the Government over increased taxes.
Uk bases have already been frozen with the threat of closures.
Can the current CEO afford to take on a United Pilot Group. Can he afford to be seen to lose another Half Billion Plus. Maybe his luck has run out and it's time for a fresh change for Ryanair.
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what continues to slay me is this perception of "management bad decisions". you do not know, unless you are party to the decision making process what is a bad decision and what is not.
One specific person may consider something to be a "bad decision" however that is merely speculation unless you have all the facts and contributing factors of the process to hand.
Either way, an air carrier is NOT a democracy or an embodiment of of socialism, IT IS A BUSINESS, it is there to generate revenue, to generate income for the shareholders.
If you want to make management decisions, start your own airline, take the risk yourself, the regulatory bodies wont stop you if you meet all the criteria, heck, they'll HELP YOU!
Then lets see how you respond to a socialist stance in your operation and quotes of " pilots whatever colour,creed or contract are getting poorer and poorer,in real terms in stark contrast to other companies" when the vast majority of operations are in a very precarious position and laying off crews.
One specific person may consider something to be a "bad decision" however that is merely speculation unless you have all the facts and contributing factors of the process to hand.
Either way, an air carrier is NOT a democracy or an embodiment of of socialism, IT IS A BUSINESS, it is there to generate revenue, to generate income for the shareholders.
If you want to make management decisions, start your own airline, take the risk yourself, the regulatory bodies wont stop you if you meet all the criteria, heck, they'll HELP YOU!
Then lets see how you respond to a socialist stance in your operation and quotes of " pilots whatever colour,creed or contract are getting poorer and poorer,in real terms in stark contrast to other companies" when the vast majority of operations are in a very precarious position and laying off crews.
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"Bad Decisions" made by the Current CEO, who did not start Ryanair, and is merely an employee, by the way.
The proof of which would be the result I suppose.
Pig headed fuel hedging policy.
Gambling shareholders money on crazy take over bids.
Are they good or bad decision
The proof of which would be the result I suppose.
Pig headed fuel hedging policy.
Gambling shareholders money on crazy take over bids.
Are they good or bad decision
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It's worth pilots in good airlines reading these Ryanair threads just to make them appreciate their own airline more.
Still, I suppose it's a bad day when your only consolation is "At least we don't work for Ryanair" It's like saying "At least we didn't crash" or "At least we don't have the ebola virus"
I'm amazed pilots who work so hard to become qualified pilots accept being treated so poorly. I can't imagine when you started training you thought that this is what you aspired to.
Still, I suppose it's a bad day when your only consolation is "At least we don't work for Ryanair" It's like saying "At least we didn't crash" or "At least we don't have the ebola virus"
I'm amazed pilots who work so hard to become qualified pilots accept being treated so poorly. I can't imagine when you started training you thought that this is what you aspired to.
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yourvoteyourchoice,
If you read the name of the thread, Ryanair thoughts, you will then realize that i have every right to get involved and have my say as
a) I too work for FR
b) The BALPA involvment (if any) within the company's managerial decisions WILL affect MY (and not only mine, there's the engineers, the ground staff, the pregnant ladies on ground duties) job (and career) too, in so many ways i dread to even think about.
If my partner works or doesn't work for FR is completely irrelevant and with all due respect, none of your business. It might come as a surprise to you but i am capable enough to do my own research, make an opinion and state it as I see it fit.
Please enlighten me, where have i made a statement that made you believe that? Of my only 3 posts on this thread, one contained a CC's view on the BALPA matter and how it will affect the CC's jobs/career, one was simply asking a question with regards to the so called BALPA "expenses" after a quick research on it's website and reading the BALPA Year End Accounts 2007 (which is a public document) and this post which is a reply to yours.
Indeed it is. However, IMHO, that statement is a tad arrogant. What i read between the lines is that pilots should put career first before families, loved ones, friends and so on. With the help of BALPA, of course.
Have you got a family Mr. yourvoteyourchoice? Kids? How would you feel not having the chance to tuck them into bed every night when you're on earlies and take them to school when you're on lates? Because that's what is going to happen if BALPA gets its way; people have said this time and time again: MOL will close the UK bases, relocate a/c's and transfer crews all over Europe. Result? Lives ruined because of BALPA's greediness...
And Mr. yourvoteyourchoice, as long as i still work for FR and have a career with them, i will always have my opinion on work related issues. And i will always state it, either you like it or not. Free speech and all that...
If you read the name of the thread, Ryanair thoughts, you will then realize that i have every right to get involved and have my say as
a) I too work for FR
b) The BALPA involvment (if any) within the company's managerial decisions WILL affect MY (and not only mine, there's the engineers, the ground staff, the pregnant ladies on ground duties) job (and career) too, in so many ways i dread to even think about.
As for the food, now where did you get that info, your fella,
It is not for you to decide the careers of other pilots
It is for each pilot to weigh up the facts and make their own judgement, and then decide in their own career interest
Have you got a family Mr. yourvoteyourchoice? Kids? How would you feel not having the chance to tuck them into bed every night when you're on earlies and take them to school when you're on lates? Because that's what is going to happen if BALPA gets its way; people have said this time and time again: MOL will close the UK bases, relocate a/c's and transfer crews all over Europe. Result? Lives ruined because of BALPA's greediness...
And Mr. yourvoteyourchoice, as long as i still work for FR and have a career with them, i will always have my opinion on work related issues. And i will always state it, either you like it or not. Free speech and all that...
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"Bad Decisions" made by the Current CEO, who did not start Ryanair, and is merely an employee, by the way.
The proof of which would be the result I suppose.
Pig headed fuel hedging policy.
Gambling shareholders money on crazy take over bids.
Are they good or bad decision
The proof of which would be the result I suppose.
Pig headed fuel hedging policy.
Gambling shareholders money on crazy take over bids.
Are they good or bad decision
What is stopping you putting a business plan together, obtaining the management team and the funding to start an operation that will make all the *right* decisions ?
Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 2nd Jul 2009 at 09:51.
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A the S
Are you aware that Ryanair frequently terminate CC's before their first anniversary. I believe they can make profit by the conveyor belt training system.
As a fellow employee I welcome your view here, although I don't agree with it. I understand your concerns about the possibility of losing your job, but that will be as a direct result of the companies action.
How does your conditions compare to someone in a similar role in a company, that respects it's employees and are willing to negotiate on terms and conditions.
Are you aware that Ryanair frequently terminate CC's before their first anniversary. I believe they can make profit by the conveyor belt training system.
As a fellow employee I welcome your view here, although I don't agree with it. I understand your concerns about the possibility of losing your job, but that will be as a direct result of the companies action.
How does your conditions compare to someone in a similar role in a company, that respects it's employees and are willing to negotiate on terms and conditions.
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B W.
When confronted with choices, possibly life or death decisions, as a Pilot.
First define what the Problem is that requires an action. Then you gather as much Information as possible. Then identify your Options. Once you have all your options, you then need to Select one. And then you Execute the option you selected. Most important you need to Evaluate your selected option and continue the process if necessary.
With me so far......
So the problem that exits in Ryanair.
Problem - Constant degradation in terms and conditions.
Information - Personal experience from being here for so long.
Options - Keep head down and take it up the ***.
Get together with fellow employees and push for Union Rec. or as you suggest Start own Airline.
After That you'll prob want me to buy the loss making airline next door also......
Good job you management types don't have to do 6 month sim checks etc.
When confronted with choices, possibly life or death decisions, as a Pilot.
First define what the Problem is that requires an action. Then you gather as much Information as possible. Then identify your Options. Once you have all your options, you then need to Select one. And then you Execute the option you selected. Most important you need to Evaluate your selected option and continue the process if necessary.
With me so far......
So the problem that exits in Ryanair.
Problem - Constant degradation in terms and conditions.
Information - Personal experience from being here for so long.
Options - Keep head down and take it up the ***.
Get together with fellow employees and push for Union Rec. or as you suggest Start own Airline.
After That you'll prob want me to buy the loss making airline next door also......
Good job you management types don't have to do 6 month sim checks etc.