Dumb and Dumber: A Tale of Two Unions.
Leo
I do sympathise and can see where your anger and vitriol comes from if you were shafted for @$55000 (can't do euro sign..sorry), I really do.
Its ironic, however, that you appear intent on allowing everybody in your company to be undervalued and taken advantage of due to your loss and personal sense of grievance.
We've all been swindled or lost out in share schemes,bonus schemes etc etc by the corporate trough dwellers over the years, but most try to move on and change inadequacies perceived in "the system".
If yer man at IALPA is an arse then put in a vote of no confidence,present a case and hey presto he'll be gone, and you might just feel a little less bitter.
You're not a woman ( scorned ) are you?
I do sympathise and can see where your anger and vitriol comes from if you were shafted for @$55000 (can't do euro sign..sorry), I really do.
Its ironic, however, that you appear intent on allowing everybody in your company to be undervalued and taken advantage of due to your loss and personal sense of grievance.
We've all been swindled or lost out in share schemes,bonus schemes etc etc by the corporate trough dwellers over the years, but most try to move on and change inadequacies perceived in "the system".
If yer man at IALPA is an arse then put in a vote of no confidence,present a case and hey presto he'll be gone, and you might just feel a little less bitter.
You're not a woman ( scorned ) are you?
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Leo, likewise a pleasure.
That was a certainly interesting tale. I am sure your children must love bed time as you do the voices so well!
However, I must get to the point that your tale has no real point. The only thing I really got from it that was actually of any real value, is that
So what you are saying is that Ryanair is profitable. Seems strange then that the pilots, (both contract and employed), are being made to take a pay cut, while I am sure the share holders will be patting themselves on the back, and making sure MOL gets extra special "beds and blowjobs", (a master-class in press conferencing I must admit).
With regards to
why would these pilots be in trouble? If they are truly not employed by BRK or RYR as both companies claim, then Ryanair, DD, and the pilots have nothing to fear wouldn't you say? Each pilot is employed individually, so hardly a reason for "Large Case Division" to get involved. The only problem would be if those pilots are not classed as self employed or of their own Ltd company. This causes BIG BIG problems for RYR and BRK. The only time the pilots would be in trouble is if they are not doing their tax properly, and if you ask me, I would say "more fool them". The rules are the rules. The law is the law. There are 2 things certain in life, Tax and Death. If you are not paying Tax......
So, we are back to my original point. You have told us things of the past. You have told us things of the present. Mr Evil Sorcerer, Sir, please do tell us things of the future. What is in store for all of the pilots that should be so grateful to be working for Ryanair. Do tell us why, if the company is making money, pilots are forced to take Unpaid leave, and not be granted the agreed pay deal.
I think that you will find that it is not all about the money. The pilots wanted to be treaded like the asset they are. Respected for the job they do, and not treaded like children.
I get the feeling that should MOL ever be on an aircraft that has a major emergency, no matter what happens, the cabin crew and pilots who were their handling the situation would not even get a thank you. It would be looked upon as 'part of the job', and therefore requires no recognition. Any crew member will tell you, that in the event of a major emergency, you know you have earned every penny of your salary up until then. The fact you saved 1-195 lives is worth more then those 6 peoples entire lifetime's income put together. That is the issue.
The fact that management are more interested in bonus's and bottom lines then the people that strive everyday to make sure the aircraft leaves 97% 'shall we call that on time.......
???' just so management figures are up to scratch, and the company league tables look good against all the other airlines.
MOL, don't forget, if every letter of THAT book was followed, and pilots turned up in the crewroom 45 mins before off blocks, and had to deal with only 3 printers working in the WHOLE of the STN crewroom, those planes would NEVER leave on time. Be glad you have people that are willing to put in that extra bit here and there, that they are technically not getting paid for because soon, they will start a go slow, a work to rule, and only taking min block fuel, you watch late departure and arrival times rocket, people not requesting or accepting en-route short cuts, diversions due fuel because there is a 5 min delay at the destination,. Your share holder profits will fall through the floor. And for what, because you don't want to show a little respect and grace to your employees. It will cost more in the long run than a little Dignity and Respect. It isn't to late to change the outcome that is getting closer and closer.
Bullies often win the battle, right up until the victims bigger and stronger brother turns up. Keep pushing the pilots, and they WILL unite. Maybe not under BALPA, but they will pull together and hurt you more then you can hurt them.
And one final thing if I can. There is a 'T' in the name. It is there for a reason.
WhiTstle Blower
That was a certainly interesting tale. I am sure your children must love bed time as you do the voices so well!
However, I must get to the point that your tale has no real point. The only thing I really got from it that was actually of any real value, is that
Ryanair got on with the job of making money and taking tens of millions of passengers profitably around Europe
With regards to
he has in recent days, personally contacted the head of the Large Cases Division of the Irish Revenue Commissioners, and dropped all the contract pilots who work for Mandrake of Mullingar, up to their nostrils in shyte
So, we are back to my original point. You have told us things of the past. You have told us things of the present. Mr Evil Sorcerer, Sir, please do tell us things of the future. What is in store for all of the pilots that should be so grateful to be working for Ryanair. Do tell us why, if the company is making money, pilots are forced to take Unpaid leave, and not be granted the agreed pay deal.
I think that you will find that it is not all about the money. The pilots wanted to be treaded like the asset they are. Respected for the job they do, and not treaded like children.
I get the feeling that should MOL ever be on an aircraft that has a major emergency, no matter what happens, the cabin crew and pilots who were their handling the situation would not even get a thank you. It would be looked upon as 'part of the job', and therefore requires no recognition. Any crew member will tell you, that in the event of a major emergency, you know you have earned every penny of your salary up until then. The fact you saved 1-195 lives is worth more then those 6 peoples entire lifetime's income put together. That is the issue.
The fact that management are more interested in bonus's and bottom lines then the people that strive everyday to make sure the aircraft leaves 97% 'shall we call that on time.......
???' just so management figures are up to scratch, and the company league tables look good against all the other airlines. MOL, don't forget, if every letter of THAT book was followed, and pilots turned up in the crewroom 45 mins before off blocks, and had to deal with only 3 printers working in the WHOLE of the STN crewroom, those planes would NEVER leave on time. Be glad you have people that are willing to put in that extra bit here and there, that they are technically not getting paid for because soon, they will start a go slow, a work to rule, and only taking min block fuel, you watch late departure and arrival times rocket, people not requesting or accepting en-route short cuts, diversions due fuel because there is a 5 min delay at the destination,. Your share holder profits will fall through the floor. And for what, because you don't want to show a little respect and grace to your employees. It will cost more in the long run than a little Dignity and Respect. It isn't to late to change the outcome that is getting closer and closer.
Bullies often win the battle, right up until the victims bigger and stronger brother turns up. Keep pushing the pilots, and they WILL unite. Maybe not under BALPA, but they will pull together and hurt you more then you can hurt them.
And one final thing if I can. There is a 'T' in the name. It is there for a reason.
WhiTstle Blower
Last edited by Whitstle_Blower; 1st May 2009 at 22:48.
>>Factoid: An anagram of Leo Hairy Camel is Michael O'Leary<<
Guessed that.
When you decided to run Herb Kelleher's brilliant low cost model did you not think to ape his approach to staff relations?
Guessed that.
When you decided to run Herb Kelleher's brilliant low cost model did you not think to ape his approach to staff relations?
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I always thought that LHC was an anal appendage of MOL's. Surely they can't be one and the same, can they? The anagram is just too easy, from an on-line site I wouldn't wonder. And still he doggedly and unswervingly repeats the lies about the BA union, not caring that the statistics show they were a minority in BALPA even in the 70s! His lying rant about Monarch and the Sicilian Mafia goes unanswered because that has also been pointed out to him as being false, but still he batters on with his lies. Repeat a lie often enough and some will eventually believe it, or so he seems to think.
Ace Homely Liar would suit him better as this is patently what he/they actually do best.
But, yes, you're right, it could be him! I see it now in his ranting diatribes and the use of such arcane and apparently erudite words as apotheosis, curiously and perhaps mistakenly used in this context, but letting slip his study of theology and his seminary background perhaps?
If ranting was an OU degree course, MOL and his attachment would both be eligible for a First!
Doing nothing will change nothing.
Doing something, signing the petition, will at least begin a process of change. The obvious conclusion to be drawn from these rants, that MOL/LHC is or are **** scared of a union, any union getting a toehold in Ryanair, should be all the more incentive to ensure that the vote is overwhelmingly in favour. Union membership and subsequent dealings will follow at a painstaking pace, but at least they will be in place. They will lead somewhere and if the pilots at least gain a little dignity and respect, traits so obviously lacking in the MOL/LHC duopoly, then the vote will have achieved something positive, at least.
Ace Homely Liar would suit him better as this is patently what he/they actually do best.
But, yes, you're right, it could be him! I see it now in his ranting diatribes and the use of such arcane and apparently erudite words as apotheosis, curiously and perhaps mistakenly used in this context, but letting slip his study of theology and his seminary background perhaps?
If ranting was an OU degree course, MOL and his attachment would both be eligible for a First!
Doing nothing will change nothing.
Doing something, signing the petition, will at least begin a process of change. The obvious conclusion to be drawn from these rants, that MOL/LHC is or are **** scared of a union, any union getting a toehold in Ryanair, should be all the more incentive to ensure that the vote is overwhelmingly in favour. Union membership and subsequent dealings will follow at a painstaking pace, but at least they will be in place. They will lead somewhere and if the pilots at least gain a little dignity and respect, traits so obviously lacking in the MOL/LHC duopoly, then the vote will have achieved something positive, at least.
Last edited by rubik101; 4th May 2009 at 07:19.
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Letting the mask slip,leo!!!you fool!
Now we are beggining,just beginning to see the REAL ryanair.The EMBITTERED,BULLYING,INTIMIDATORY,BULLYING,HARSH,THIEVING,LYI NG(i could go on and on).
Now even resorting to posting UNION BUSTING cartoons on pprune to try and intimidate the pilots.I always knew we would be able to tease out the true picture of what lies(pun) beneath the management of ryanair.Try to divert the attention away from ryanair onto aer lingus,what a pathetic tactic.if this is what you are paying the UNION BUSTERS so much money for,then once again,another poor investment by the schlong in the glass mausoleum at head office.
why pay UNION BUSTERS to deprive your workers,why not just pay proper terms and conditions.why not treat your workers with DIGNITY and RESPECT?
UNION RECOGNITION will deliver respect and dignity.Two things that all money and terms aside,the management of ryanair would love to see the pilot body deprived of.Why,because like all megalomaniac dictators.it rises above just money and becomes more about subjugating the people,depriving them of a VOICE and using them,then casting them aside.
Now even resorting to posting UNION BUSTING cartoons on pprune to try and intimidate the pilots.I always knew we would be able to tease out the true picture of what lies(pun) beneath the management of ryanair.Try to divert the attention away from ryanair onto aer lingus,what a pathetic tactic.if this is what you are paying the UNION BUSTERS so much money for,then once again,another poor investment by the schlong in the glass mausoleum at head office.
why pay UNION BUSTERS to deprive your workers,why not just pay proper terms and conditions.why not treat your workers with DIGNITY and RESPECT?
UNION RECOGNITION will deliver respect and dignity.Two things that all money and terms aside,the management of ryanair would love to see the pilot body deprived of.Why,because like all megalomaniac dictators.it rises above just money and becomes more about subjugating the people,depriving them of a VOICE and using them,then casting them aside.
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It clearly hurts Leo that the AL pilots decided to take a stand against you then? Thing is the pilots wouldn't give a toss about losing the money if it gave them a chance of stopped your lot from sacking them and offering their BRK contracts and a nice base at one of your less popular destinations in deepsest darkest Europe. Sorry that no one fell for the PR sh*te that was spout about FR "saving" Aer Lingus. The cash is sunk now and long gone. Gee at only 50c a share and you dumping more to drive the price down then its a veritable bargain. Perhaps the pilots and staff of Aer Lingus should be buying up more and really slamming your face in the door.
Somehow I don't think the Irish government shares your views on the best interests for Irelands transport strategy but keep going with the spin.
Somehow I don't think the Irish government shares your views on the best interests for Irelands transport strategy but keep going with the spin.
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When I read Leo HC's initial post, I had a distinct feeling of deja vu. I wondered where I'd heard that kind of disdainful, arrogant, self-serving claptrap before.
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So micko needs a distraction? What from one wonders? Let me see, how about June 2nd when the meltdown to the scumair business model will have to be revealed?
The aircraft trading business has finished, the model is in pieces. But what of the pax business you ask? Rubbish, that part of fr it was only ever minorly profitible and only then when fuel was cheap and fares were high.
Hopefully this will be catalyst to remove micko and appoint someone to repair the destruction of shareholder value and restore the business model to something workable.
The aircraft trading business has finished, the model is in pieces. But what of the pax business you ask? Rubbish, that part of fr it was only ever minorly profitible and only then when fuel was cheap and fares were high.
Hopefully this will be catalyst to remove micko and appoint someone to repair the destruction of shareholder value and restore the business model to something workable.
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FACT: Pilot's terms and conditions are better in unionized airlines.
FACT: BALPA is an extremely modern, progressive union that works extremely effectively WITH management to come up with sensible, negotiated solutions to problems that both parties are satisfied with. This ensures a profitable, sustainable company that secures its pilot's futures whilst maintaining benchmarked, fair rewards for what are often the airline's most highly motivated employees.
FACT: BALPA have not actually gone on strike for many years (I don't know how many but it's at least 10). They have threatened it but only when necessary.
FACT: Airline pilots generally work for an airline for many years, sometimes their whole career, so out of all employee groups have the biggest invested interest in the long term viability and profitability of the company. In contrast most airline executives and CEOs have a much shorter term in the job and are often there to 'hit and run' with terms and conditions.
FACT: BALPA have negotiated some excellent solutions at many UK airlines, not just BA without resorting to strike action.
FACT: BALPA members get back many many times their subscriptions every year in increased terms and conditions.
What are RYR management afraid of? What are RYR pilots afraid of (apart from RYR management)? If RYR pilots join a union they will no longer have to be afraid of the management and not have to put up with their bullying, some might say unsafe, tactics. JUST DO IT!
FACT: BALPA is an extremely modern, progressive union that works extremely effectively WITH management to come up with sensible, negotiated solutions to problems that both parties are satisfied with. This ensures a profitable, sustainable company that secures its pilot's futures whilst maintaining benchmarked, fair rewards for what are often the airline's most highly motivated employees.
FACT: BALPA have not actually gone on strike for many years (I don't know how many but it's at least 10). They have threatened it but only when necessary.
FACT: Airline pilots generally work for an airline for many years, sometimes their whole career, so out of all employee groups have the biggest invested interest in the long term viability and profitability of the company. In contrast most airline executives and CEOs have a much shorter term in the job and are often there to 'hit and run' with terms and conditions.
FACT: BALPA have negotiated some excellent solutions at many UK airlines, not just BA without resorting to strike action.
FACT: BALPA members get back many many times their subscriptions every year in increased terms and conditions.
What are RYR management afraid of? What are RYR pilots afraid of (apart from RYR management)? If RYR pilots join a union they will no longer have to be afraid of the management and not have to put up with their bullying, some might say unsafe, tactics. JUST DO IT!
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They were the worst of times, they were the worst of times.
I must get to the point that your tale has no real point.
Undeterred by this fiasco, IALPA intends this week to march into the office of the Taoiseach and demand the state makes up your grotesque shortfall in Aer Lingus pension funds! I can only imagine the colourful language that'll fly from Leinster House that day! Do me a favour, Whistleblower. Take a video recorder and put in on Youtube afterwards, will you?
You just don't get it, do you. Incompetence and rank, unbridled stupidity cannot be eclipsed or hidden by bellicose attempts at recruiting by IALPA and your friends across the water in Perfidious Albion. I can only shake my head in disbelief at the shortsightedness in reporting Ryanair pilots to the revenue authorities of the UK and Ireland, and yes ladies and gentlemen, this has indeed been done by your friends and mine, those stalwart supporters of the working pilot, IALPA and BLAPA.
The tax compliance question will be resolved in short order. The much, much more interesting question, is just what sort of support you expect to receive in return from the contractors at Ryanair, and you and I both know they're not an insignificant number, to put it mildly, when the truth comes out that you and BLAPA have grassed them up to the authorities?
Have you thought this through, boys? I mean, your strength only ever comes from an implicit threat to strike. Just how effective do you think that position will be when your striking members are home earning nothing but BLAPA gratitude, and Ryanair runs on regardless with BRK contractors, tax compliant every one, all of whom have very, VERY long memories?
Dignity and Respect my arse! You’re seeking to draw a blind over your own hubristic stupidity, and BLAPA’s unique lack of fitness for purpose.
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Agree, utter nonsense. However it is wonderful to read, you can almost feel the utter desperation and like a classic bully has nothing constructive to say other than making threats when backed into a corner. If LHC is a member or members of FR management I get a warm feeling reading his/their posts as they know his/their time is very nearly up. I've said it before, FR could be one of the best jobs there is - lets make it so!
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The fact that Ryanair is being grassed up about tax dodging shows what a dodgy back street business is being run.
I hope somebody brings to light the real safety issues happening on line, and brings it to authorities over and obove the IAA, who are living in Ryanair's pocket.
I hope somebody brings to light the real safety issues happening on line, and brings it to authorities over and obove the IAA, who are living in Ryanair's pocket.
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ItsAjob,
I would never be one to defend (although I quite understand why a "sharp " management will use them if there is no coordinated resistance
) some of the management "techniques" employed within Ryanair
I would be interested however to hear exactly what you have identified as "the real safety issues happening on line" and perhaps tell us where it is any different to any other lo-co, or indeed any other carrier of whatever genre ?
I would never be one to defend (although I quite understand why a "sharp " management will use them if there is no coordinated resistance
) some of the management "techniques" employed within RyanairI would be interested however to hear exactly what you have identified as "the real safety issues happening on line" and perhaps tell us where it is any different to any other lo-co, or indeed any other carrier of whatever genre ?
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Gentlemen back street business or not Leo has made many pilots wealthy over the years I can honestly say BALPA and IALPA have not made many wealthy at all. Ask any Virgin Express Ireland pilot how usefull IFALPA were when they were in trouble there! I think you'll find the words tits and nun used in the same sentance.
Sure Leo is a hard nosed business man and its high time proffesional pilots learn't a little from what Leo says as he is all to well aware of what happens in the harsh world of economics!
You have to admire a man that is able to use one simple sentance to purchase a few million pounds worth of free TV advertising. He did this by just saying "I think we may charge people to use the toilets" and hey presto loads of free prime time TV advertising FOC.
The man is a genius in my opinion a hard arsed bastered, but a genius all the same. Next time you walk into the crew just ignore all the bull**** that the unions are whipping up grab your paper work and go get that jet into the air because thats where it will make money that will in turn be used form your salary.
Unions have a place I agree but when it comes down to hard money I have yet to see a union that has made a real impact! I don't think goood old Arthur Sk lost as much as his miners did in pure financial terms. There is not a union man alive smart enough to outwit Leo he is far to fleet of foot for even the best of them.
I have to say that I have no particular liking for Leo but I do admire his ability to make money and admire how he almost on his own has built Ryanair in to a money making machine. That said I do my best not to have to travel on his airline as I do feel comfortable with how close to the bone things are cut and out of desperation the quality of pilots that have been employed does leave a lot to be desired! There again its difficult to retain the quality when yopu grow so fast!
Sure Leo is a hard nosed business man and its high time proffesional pilots learn't a little from what Leo says as he is all to well aware of what happens in the harsh world of economics!
You have to admire a man that is able to use one simple sentance to purchase a few million pounds worth of free TV advertising. He did this by just saying "I think we may charge people to use the toilets" and hey presto loads of free prime time TV advertising FOC.
The man is a genius in my opinion a hard arsed bastered, but a genius all the same. Next time you walk into the crew just ignore all the bull**** that the unions are whipping up grab your paper work and go get that jet into the air because thats where it will make money that will in turn be used form your salary.
Unions have a place I agree but when it comes down to hard money I have yet to see a union that has made a real impact! I don't think goood old Arthur Sk lost as much as his miners did in pure financial terms. There is not a union man alive smart enough to outwit Leo he is far to fleet of foot for even the best of them.
I have to say that I have no particular liking for Leo but I do admire his ability to make money and admire how he almost on his own has built Ryanair in to a money making machine. That said I do my best not to have to travel on his airline as I do feel comfortable with how close to the bone things are cut and out of desperation the quality of pilots that have been employed does leave a lot to be desired! There again its difficult to retain the quality when yopu grow so fast!
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For the avoidance of (the considerable amount of) doubt that appears to have yet again been voiced here, our beloved Leo is not our beloved MOL (nor indeed has he ever claimed to be)
Admire him, he may well (with some justification in CERTAIN areas) do, but he is not one and the same, as those of us who know who he is, and he himself when he is next along, will tell you.
Try and pay attention at the back there won't you ?
Admire him, he may well (with some justification in CERTAIN areas) do, but he is not one and the same, as those of us who know who he is, and he himself when he is next along, will tell you.
Try and pay attention at the back there won't you ?