EasyJet Holding Pool

[Doug the Head]

320seriesTRE is sitting high up in his ivory tower, looking down on the proles. He got what he wanted (cushy training job, status, respect, power, 4 stripes), and does no longer sees the need to work together in order to improve everybody else's life.

"F*ck off to where you came from," "sign this (local) contract or leave" and "love it or leave it" are usually the exclusive credos of management, or management wannabees...

CRM (have a close look at the last 2 items of 2nd page of the T4 form!) at it's finest! Leading by example, blablabla. Standards are obviously slipping, even for TRE's.

[Dutchjock]

Here's a scenario:

Easyjet decides to open a base in say Budapest. With the local contracts now a fact, the company will pay, and I qoute "market rates and not a penny more.

Let's say 80000 euros would be a rather good pay for a local capt. Now the company introduces 3 point flights. (as heard from the mouth of the people director)

For example BUD-LGW-AMS-LGW-BUD

All of a sudden they need less crews in LGW and more in BUD. Now the time for new pay talks arrives.

What do you think the company is going to say?

"Dear UK pilots. Your Hungarian colleagues are about 15000 pounds p/year cheaper. You can either accept a pay freeze or we will expand the 3 point flights, accept the odd night stop and reduce the UK bases.

Do you think the hunagrian colleagues will go on strike for your pay? off course not.

Your uk based ivory tower is going to come crashing down before you know it.

Divide and conquer.

Let's try and work together to avoid this and keep everyone on 1 overall package, tweaked here and there for local taxes/regulations.

[F4F]

320seriesTRE... well, no comment

The orange management is trying to use the "divide and conquer" method.
And they are successful!
Next base on the list: MXP. Wish you guys good luck

To the other bases: make no mistake here, benefits will erode at your base too, if not yet then in the long term.
As for the guys in MAD being happy... well, the ones staying (ex Air Madrid et al) probably are, but what about all the ones that left, were they happy?


live 2 fly 2 live

[orangetree]

On the subject of MAD contracts, I believe the final draft is now complete having been fought over for the past year. While it is probably not perfect I believe it is a significant improvement on the initial offering and that is due in no uncertain terms to the efforts of our Balpa team. Divide and conquer is definately on the management agenda here and I think we need to listen carefully and follow developments on this issue over the coming months. We can not afford to adopt the 'not in my back yard' stance on European issues or we shall ultimately all lose out.
I don't think we shall see many or maybe any DEC's over the next 12 months. The MAD accelerated command issue seems a little oversold here. The NTC has been removed because the 'offer' is closed and oversubscribed. I believe that (reluctantly) the company has been bound by the existing BALPA agreements on base transfers and crews can apply to transfer out in the normal manner. With that in mind there seems little difference between taking a command in MAD and any other base.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Dutchjock - although I do not agree with your analysis about the Madrid contract, I do share your concerns about the potential for massive wage reductions by the mechanism you specified. Like many things in life, the truth does not lie at the extremes of the argument. I personally see some merit in local contracts but with certain protections built in. Once again the need for a unified BALPA-based workforce is becoming apparent and I have zero sympathy with any complaints about easyJet from any pilot who is not a member. The recent difficulties we have had with our management can be traced directly back to a dilution of membership rates and the consequent boldness of our managers to make decisions clearly not in our best interests.
The issue of European contracts is about to become the big issue at easyJet and we should be prepared for a serious battle. That battle is winnable, but will require greater resolve from the pilot workforce than currently is being shown. In a nutshell, there is an increasing minority of pilots at easyJet who are 'freeloaders' - they want all the benefits won by BALPA but will give none of the commitment. That is their choice, but ultimately we will all lose out if we do not stand together.

[toratoratora]

320TRE, you say that your location is 'Earth'.

You sure about that?

[kick the tires]

prob not even a TRE!

[Yabaduu]

How confused some of you are!

The MAD contract is nothing like the UK one. The increase in gross salary it is not equivalent, at all, to the UK contract. The gross salary on the Spanish contract is higher than in the UK one. However, payments to National Insurance in Spain are much higher than in the UK. Furthermore, the 5% pay increase in UK has not happen in Spain (= effective pay cut). In Spain you do not get the extra 2% of the pension. According to EZY Right now there are talks in Spain of how to scrap the pension all together. In addition, if you are not Spanish, how will you benefit?

Night stop allowance for Spanish crews is only 18 pounds! Why do you think it is cheaper for the company not to base pilots in CDG or LYS. At the beginning it will be LGW crew down in France. Once the Spanish bases are fully manned it will be us doing the night stops.
Sector Pay. It is equal for Capt., F/O and Cabin Crew. Under the Spanish Contract any flight to Spanish soil is considered domestic; hence, you get a daily fix domestic rate = 22 pounds. International flights will get the international rate of 40 pounds/day. If the flight duty is divided between Intl. and Domestic you get whichever is the longest flight. Some examples follow:

- 2 domestic sectors: MAD-ACE-MAD = 22 pounds (>5hours flight time)

- 4 domestic sectors: MAD-OVD-MAD-LCG-MAD = 22 pounds
- 6 " " MAD-IBZ-PMI-IBZ-MAD-AGP-MAD = 22 pounds
- 2 domestic + 2 intl: MAD-FUE-MAD-TLS-MAD = 22 pounds (>7 hours flight time) Longest sector is the domestic; thus, domestic pay.
- 4 Intl. sectors: MAD-LIS-MAD-LGW-MAD = 40 pounds.

Sick pay cover is ONLY for 3 days. Do not get confused with six months. The six month sick pay cover is only for pilots transferring to the Spanish Contract before Feb' 08. Anyone, new or from any other EZY base, will not get it.

I have read some naive guy (he knows who he is) in the forum saying that life in MAD is cheaper. Either you live in the city of London or you just not have a clue how expensive it is to live in MAD. MAD is nothing like Benidorm or whatever cheap place you might have been on holydays in Spain. Madrid is the 7th most expensive capital in the world. Therefore, unless you are Paris or London based, you are talking from your rear.

DIVIDE AND CONQUER. How many times do we have to see this happen before the saying sinks in? If the UK goes on strike and EZY asks someone on a Spanish Contract to operate flights from LGW, he/she cannot

[orangetree]

Spain has not received the UK pay award because the revue date in Spain is different from the UK and is only just coming up for negotiation. Therefore it's a little early to be talking paycut. You have also failed to mention your 10% productivity bonus. That will be levied on a higher basic than a UK contract. Overall though, I agree the UK contract is a better one.

[Santas Little Helper]

NSF, since you appear to be an expert on easyJet, perhaps you could explain why
"The recent difficulties we have had with our management can be traced directly back to a dilution of membership rates"
It is quite clear that balpa is not the answer to every pilots prayers as some would appear to believe and your statement
"The issue of European contracts is about to become the big issue at easyJet and we should be prepared for a serious battle"
is just another example of balpa offering their membership too little too late. It has been obvious for years that it was easyJets intention to have European bases with pilots on local contracts.
Perhaps those who have not yet joined consider that spending in some cases over £700 a year for doubtfully quantifiable benifits have a point

[Ashling]

Santa's Little Helper

NSF knows better than most what he is talking about when it comes to easyJet and Balpa.

He is quite correct that membership levels are a problem. Look at the results other airlines get with high levels of membership. Despite this Balpa have achieved a great deal in the time I have been with the company and deserve due credit for that.

Balpa membership costs are not as high as you suggest. You can claim tax relief on the 1st 2/3 of your annual membership. So on £700 the saving is £186.66 as at that level of cost the member would be a 40% tax payer. Not so sure of the costs if you pay your tax to other than the UK taxman. Oh and they only charge you half your subs in year 1 and 3/4 in year 2. In 2004 they negotiated a tax break of £950 a year which we all get, member or not. So I reckon thats a quantifiable benefit to me each year of about £450 thanks to Balpa as my subs before the adjustments I just mentioned are over £700. Very helpfull around Christmas don't you think Santa's Little Helper? So next time you slate the cost of membership get your facts right.

If you are one of the freeloaders then get your act together and get on board the ship. If people do not stand together then there is only one winner and its not the crews. Balpa is far from perfect but its the only show in town so stop pulling it down and face up to the real threat.

If you have a workable alternate to Balpa then by all means enlighten us.

Thought not.

[Right Way Up]

Perhaps those who have not yet joined consider that spending in some cases over £700 a year for doubtfully quantifiable benifits have a point

Always easy to make excuses when you freeload.

[Ugly Duck]

Orange Tree you seem to be a bit lost. What Yabaduu has pointed out is all true. With regards to the negotiation date regarding MAD, the company decided to put the date they felt like, even though BALPA was completely against it. Why should there be a different pay review date when the MAD pilots (about 85-90% of them) come from the UK? By doing so the company has given those pilots an effective pay cut.
Since you mention the productivity bonus lets talk about it. Do you even know what the bonus is going to be based on next year, or the year after? No. You just have not got a clue. Not even the company knows what they are going to base the bonus on. In addition, this year bonus is hardly going to mean anything since is pro-rata. So 10% of your salary for four months (which is when we were force to sign to the Spanish Contract) at 43% tax, you tell me how much would that be. And then you compare to your pay rise, sector pay, pension...
But since you brought those things up lets not forget the loyalty bonus is now fixed on the UK contract, and it adds up on to the pension. Whereas on the Spanish contract it is still dependant on the company earning profits. Not to say that the pension part we will never get it since we have no pension.

[FBOZH]

Ugly duck

You seem to know a bit on spanish tax. Are you MAD based? Copilot or Capt? Could you give us your take home per month on average? That 43% is only on some of your salary isn't it? I imagine payable tax increases gradually like it does in other countries. I am about to join easy and would love to live in spain. Thanks for any input.

[Arrowhead]

Back to the theme

Back to the original theme of this thread....

I am told I am less than #10 in the DEP FO pool and have heard nothing since early Oct. I can only guess that people are busy working out the GB integration ahead of next summer, and thence working out how much space is left to get new guys in.

That said, if they dont start giving out start dates for Mar/Apr/May soon, I dont see how they will have trained pilots ready for the summer.

Please post any new info here as you hear it!

[hmmmwhy]

I entered the holdpool in October and was told I'm around 100 in the hold pool, with dates no earlier than next October.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Santas Little Helper - I am one of those who left BALPA in the past but rejoined when a big fight was coming at easyJet - so I have held to both sides of the argument. What finally persuaded me to back BALPA was that I saw the power of force of numbers. There are those, and you may be one of them, who have such a visceral hatred of BALPA that any amount of rational discussion is wasted. For the more discerning, it seems self-evident that if you have all pilots acting as one then you will have a voice in the face of unreasonable management.

Have a look at those companies who have big BALPA voices - Monarch, BA, Virgin and until recently easyJet. Every one of them has done well from it. Look at the other end of the scale - Jet 2 or Ryanair. They are continually stuffed by their bosses. The working conditions at the BALPA-represented companies are manifestly better than those without union representation. Our percentage membership has gone down recently and consequently our excellent CC had their bluff called and had to give in over the last pay deal.
Let me give you a great example of how BALPA can work and your £700 can pale into insignificance. Last year we were desparately short of Training Captains and about 40 new ones were promoted. When the contracts came through the 12.5% pay rise was a 'temporary' promotion for a year. BALPA went in and argued the toss, won the argument and all trainers are now on permanent contracts. That has proven to be worth about £9k a year for each captain involved - makes your £700 seem quite small.

For all the freeloaders who want to let everyone else fight for the good deals, pay nothing and then say thanks a lot - just do not come back and whine when it all goes wrong later. You have lost the right to speak or complain. Everything that we have now at easyJet has been won by BALPA - let us not be so foolish as to throw it away for a few quid a month extra in our banks.

[qwertyuiop]

Very well said NSF. !!!!

[Santas Little Helper]

NSF: your reply while very interesting does not really answer the questions I asked about the comments you made earlier relating to the next battle etc.
It is quite obvious even to me that pilots working for a big airline like easyJet need to be represented collectively by a union but what I object to is the way that quite a few balpa members seem too ready to force their views on others, to hijack any arguement (this thread is about the holding pool) turning it into a balpa recruiting campaign and to make assumptions about people which sometimes border on the insulting. And if one dares to criticise something a balpa rep has done or said, it is invariably met with the response "well if you think you can do better why arent you a rep"
Actually I am in balpa but like a lot of members I do not have a better answer and I do not regard it as good value for money. I also respect the right of others who choose not to belong because over the last thirty odd years I have seen that even if you are a member, when it comes to standing together on an important issue the membership is often diluted by apathy or fear.

[Nightstop]

NSF I can't see how Santas Little Helpe'rs £700 pales into insignificance when only 40 Trainers are benefiting from BALPA's assistance in achieving permanent training contracts. Now, a year later, they are sittting in the RHS doing nothing for their money ie "consolidation" while these poor souls in the holding pool above are desperately waiting to absorb their knowledge and expertise. Never in the history of easyJet have so few benefited so handsomely from the subscriptions of so many