Ryanair - The initial outlay
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Although it was almost 5 years ago, I was specifically asked at my Ryr interview if I had the money to pay for the TR.
I said the Bank were willing to lend, and that seemed to tick the last box post sim check.
So therefore although they had already decided they wanted me.. Had I said no I don't have the cash.. well there would have been no offer. Maybe that process has changed now, I don't know.
My job offer in my case anyway, was therefore based on my ability to pay.
I said the Bank were willing to lend, and that seemed to tick the last box post sim check.
So therefore although they had already decided they wanted me.. Had I said no I don't have the cash.. well there would have been no offer. Maybe that process has changed now, I don't know.
My job offer in my case anyway, was therefore based on my ability to pay.
Last edited by MorningGlory; 3rd Oct 2007 at 16:20.
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Do RYR use their own tri/e for the training. I could sure use some guidance from a TRI who has been a pilot for 4yrs or a tre who has been a capt for less than two yrs, and a pilot for four.
I think if i was fessing up the dosh I would like some experience teaching me not a trained ape repeating what he was told.
I think if i was fessing up the dosh I would like some experience teaching me not a trained ape repeating what he was told.
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Cloud Bunny,
By actually showing up, you are declaring your willingness to part with money. Obviously many suitable candidates don't show up as they are unwilling/unable to pay.
By the very fact that only those willing to pay show up, self selection has already taken place. To suggest that anything other willingness to pay is the prime selection factor is thus nonsense. A selection is being made the moment you make the application. Thereafter, all other selection decisions are made on the basis that you will be prepared to cough up.
By actually showing up, you are declaring your willingness to part with money. Obviously many suitable candidates don't show up as they are unwilling/unable to pay.
By the very fact that only those willing to pay show up, self selection has already taken place. To suggest that anything other willingness to pay is the prime selection factor is thus nonsense. A selection is being made the moment you make the application. Thereafter, all other selection decisions are made on the basis that you will be prepared to cough up.
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Camel Hair takes the not insubstantial salary and whines more than a CFM56 on a 22K derate.
If you are so unhappy put your money where your big mouth is and push off to the greener grass elsewhere; otherwise shut the
up whining about Ryanair.
No rational argument is ever going to change your misguided viewpoint.
If you are so unhappy put your money where your big mouth is and push off to the greener grass elsewhere; otherwise shut the
up whining about Ryanair.No rational argument is ever going to change your misguided viewpoint.
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Ouch Mr S, touched a nerve have I?!
Not sure where I'm going wrong. It's so very simple, if you are not willing to pay up, you won't get the job. Doesn't matter how good you are, you're not paying, you're not in. In this scenario, it's hard to see how willingness pay is not the primary factor.
You must be talking about the lowest jet salary in Western Europe. Not insubstantial compared to the dole. Pretty damn poor when compared to any other airline.
Truth hurts eh? Dissemination of the facts is not whining dear boy.
No rational argument is ever going to change your misguided viewpoint.
not insubstantial salary
otherwise shut the up whining about Ryanair.
up whining about Ryanair.
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I agree with slim, at no point in the interview was I asked about funds for the TR. Ryanair are turning people down if they don't make the grade in the sim/interview even if they have the funds to pay.
This just goes to show you can't just arrive at the interveiw with with 20k in your sky rocket(pocket) and expect a place on the TR course, you have to make the grade.
This just goes to show you can't just arrive at the interveiw with with 20k in your sky rocket(pocket) and expect a place on the TR course, you have to make the grade.
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of course, 20k is not enough, you need to pass their selections. they have so many of 200h pilot ready to pay.
they can even ask 30k if the decide to and wanabes will pay if they decide to pay.
this is not only at ryanair, but in many other airlines the same "ripoff".this industry stinks! I just hope to find a good company for myself.
God bless you!
they can even ask 30k if the decide to and wanabes will pay if they decide to pay.
this is not only at ryanair, but in many other airlines the same "ripoff".this industry stinks! I just hope to find a good company for myself.
God bless you!
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It's a very big problem, but it seems to be the way the industry is going, even Bmi regional make you pay for the TR on the emb135/145 £2000 up front then £163pm total cost £12000. I know with FR you need to pay the toal up front but even with Bmi regional you still pay, Jet 2 is another, I think.
Camel, you need to make the grade to get offered a place on the FR TR, it would be a waste of time for the applicant and FR to have someone sitting on the flight deck who couldn't cope with the pressure but had 20k to spend and at the end of line training FR say thanks but no thanks, whats the point in that.
Camel, you need to make the grade to get offered a place on the FR TR, it would be a waste of time for the applicant and FR to have someone sitting on the flight deck who couldn't cope with the pressure but had 20k to spend and at the end of line training FR say thanks but no thanks, whats the point in that.
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they have so many of 200h pilot ready to pay.
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Forgive me for trying to get a thread on track again, but can anyone give me some indication of how much they earnt in their first year with Ryanair? Just salary, preferably before and after tax, before expenses and loan payments etc..
Horgy
Horgy
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pay not attention to camelhair
the guys a jerk. i can understand him being pissed of with ryr due to the treatment of us pilots and cabin crew, but i think the pay is pretty good compared to other airlines -camelhair calls ryr "the lowest jet salary in Western Europe". thats rubbish.
the pay for the first 6-9 months is rubbish however. you wont get much during your training, along with zero sector pay (which now makes up around 60% of my take home pay). yes it's a struggle up till a time when you've signed a contract and on full sector pay.
but if you're at a point where you're trying to get into an airline for your first job, then i'd assume you've had at least 6 months of struggle without a job anyway. i now take home over 3k a month. thats about 2500 more than when i was doing temping work, about 2000 more than when i was a flight instructor and around 1500 more than some of my mates who are flying for airline who pay less. YES- camelhair, believe it or not there are some salaries in western europe less than ryr, even on jets.
my advice to those pilots whose heads are stuck in the 80's and 90's where pilots where celebrities and on huge salaries is to be pissed off in your own time and quit moaning about it, bringing down others and attempting to put them off ever thinking about starting a career in aviation.
if you stay out of the politics and treat ryanair as they fully expect to be treated (i.e. stay there for a few years, gain command, have a couple more years on the left then leave) then they are a great airline to join. who else takes on cadets with almost zero hours, puts them in brand new 737-800s, pays them well (ok, after the first 9months) and gives them the chance to be captains after 3 years.
the initial payment of a type rating is peanuts. look at how much youve paid already and go for it. its definitely worth it. i know i havent helped steer this thread away from the argument it was turning into! sorry about that Mr Horgy! just pm me and ill answer any questions you've got as best i can.
b.bear
the pay for the first 6-9 months is rubbish however. you wont get much during your training, along with zero sector pay (which now makes up around 60% of my take home pay). yes it's a struggle up till a time when you've signed a contract and on full sector pay.
but if you're at a point where you're trying to get into an airline for your first job, then i'd assume you've had at least 6 months of struggle without a job anyway. i now take home over 3k a month. thats about 2500 more than when i was doing temping work, about 2000 more than when i was a flight instructor and around 1500 more than some of my mates who are flying for airline who pay less. YES- camelhair, believe it or not there are some salaries in western europe less than ryr, even on jets.
my advice to those pilots whose heads are stuck in the 80's and 90's where pilots where celebrities and on huge salaries is to be pissed off in your own time and quit moaning about it, bringing down others and attempting to put them off ever thinking about starting a career in aviation.
if you stay out of the politics and treat ryanair as they fully expect to be treated (i.e. stay there for a few years, gain command, have a couple more years on the left then leave) then they are a great airline to join. who else takes on cadets with almost zero hours, puts them in brand new 737-800s, pays them well (ok, after the first 9months) and gives them the chance to be captains after 3 years.
the initial payment of a type rating is peanuts. look at how much youve paid already and go for it. its definitely worth it. i know i havent helped steer this thread away from the argument it was turning into! sorry about that Mr Horgy! just pm me and ill answer any questions you've got as best i can.
b.bear
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Can anyone enlighten us on what the score is if you have stumped up 'all this dosh', finish the sim but bomb out on the base training. Will RYR offer some more training to get you through, or will they show you the door with no type rating to show for 'all that dosh'?
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RAT 5,
To answer your question, I know of two guys who struggled on their base check. They were put in the sim at EMA for a few more hours (At FR's expense) and then went back up in the real thing to do their circuits again. They both passed and are now flying the line.
Mr Horgy,
I made £35k net (From Cadet to FO) in my one and only year at Ryanair as a PAYE employee. I was fortunate in that I was through my line training in six weeks and then straight onto a Ryanair contract and half sector pay for the first six months. (I say fortunate because some guys are a little unlucky with the continuity of their line training and it may take a bit longer)..
During that six month period of half sector pay, you will get a lot of flying done believe me. This is because you're fifty percent cheaper to have flying than a FO who is out of that six month period.
To answer your question, I know of two guys who struggled on their base check. They were put in the sim at EMA for a few more hours (At FR's expense) and then went back up in the real thing to do their circuits again. They both passed and are now flying the line.
Mr Horgy,
I made £35k net (From Cadet to FO) in my one and only year at Ryanair as a PAYE employee. I was fortunate in that I was through my line training in six weeks and then straight onto a Ryanair contract and half sector pay for the first six months. (I say fortunate because some guys are a little unlucky with the continuity of their line training and it may take a bit longer)..
During that six month period of half sector pay, you will get a lot of flying done believe me. This is because you're fifty percent cheaper to have flying than a FO who is out of that six month period.
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BongleBear
Your post is what this whole thread is about. Terms and Conditions !!!
You say you take home £3000 a month. Well, good for you.
How much of that do you spend on your own food and water at work? How much of that is your car park pass? How much of that is your uniform and dry cleaning? How much of that is for transport to and from sims? How much of that is for accommodation at the sim?
A not insignificant sum
On top of that, how much do FR pay into your pension? How much do FR contribute to your death in service benefits? How much do FR contribute to loss of licence insurance? How much do FR contribute to PHI income insurance?
Absolutely nothing
You get my drift, the job is cr@p..... and it's because muppets similar to you think that you are well rewarded. You aren't. You are badly paid and work hard for that privilege.
Contrast your position to a legacy carrier, such as Virgin or BA (where all pilots should be aiming their terms and conditions). A first year FO at Virgin takes home £3400 a month (for no more than 760 hours a year) PLUS allowances downroute, gets all the above benefits (and more) and a 15% company contribution to a pension, on ALL pay including flight pay, except overtime.
That's not bragging. It's where terms and conditions should be. If not better.
Wake up and smell the coffee (that you had to provide yourself of course).
Your post is what this whole thread is about. Terms and Conditions !!!
You say you take home £3000 a month. Well, good for you.
How much of that do you spend on your own food and water at work? How much of that is your car park pass? How much of that is your uniform and dry cleaning? How much of that is for transport to and from sims? How much of that is for accommodation at the sim?
A not insignificant sum
On top of that, how much do FR pay into your pension? How much do FR contribute to your death in service benefits? How much do FR contribute to loss of licence insurance? How much do FR contribute to PHI income insurance?
Absolutely nothing
You get my drift, the job is cr@p..... and it's because muppets similar to you think that you are well rewarded. You aren't. You are badly paid and work hard for that privilege.
Contrast your position to a legacy carrier, such as Virgin or BA (where all pilots should be aiming their terms and conditions). A first year FO at Virgin takes home £3400 a month (for no more than 760 hours a year) PLUS allowances downroute, gets all the above benefits (and more) and a 15% company contribution to a pension, on ALL pay including flight pay, except overtime.
That's not bragging. It's where terms and conditions should be. If not better.
Wake up and smell the coffee (that you had to provide yourself of course).
Last edited by stansdead; 16th Oct 2007 at 09:19. Reason: spelling
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Thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate the time people are taking to message me and answer my question.
Stansdead, although I agree with you in theory, I notice that Virgin and BA aren't taking 200 hour wanabees on, and throwing benefits at them. BA take Oxford bods, but have you looked at the cadet salary scales? It's worse than Ryanair in some cases!
People also say instructing is better - I don't see pension, salary, loss of license insurance, (insert benefit) provided there either, yet thats a better option?
I've personally taken a long hard look at Ryanair. Where else can you get a job fresh out of school flying a jet doing 900 hours a year on an interesting and varied route network. Sure the pay isn't great, but it's going to be better than sitting on arse moaning on Pprune. And after all, I can go to BA when I have my 500 hours anyway, which will be roughly 6 months of flying at RYR. Unless (heaven forbid) I actually enjoy working for RYR? Who'd have thought it, I am getting a nice sprinkling of PM's from people who are actually pretty happy.
Horgy
Stansdead, although I agree with you in theory, I notice that Virgin and BA aren't taking 200 hour wanabees on, and throwing benefits at them. BA take Oxford bods, but have you looked at the cadet salary scales? It's worse than Ryanair in some cases!
People also say instructing is better - I don't see pension, salary, loss of license insurance, (insert benefit) provided there either, yet thats a better option?
I've personally taken a long hard look at Ryanair. Where else can you get a job fresh out of school flying a jet doing 900 hours a year on an interesting and varied route network. Sure the pay isn't great, but it's going to be better than sitting on arse moaning on Pprune. And after all, I can go to BA when I have my 500 hours anyway, which will be roughly 6 months of flying at RYR. Unless (heaven forbid) I actually enjoy working for RYR? Who'd have thought it, I am getting a nice sprinkling of PM's from people who are actually pretty happy.
Horgy
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MrHorgy
But it is not only 200 hour pilots who pay for type ratings with FR is it?
Everybody seems to. If people just said no for ONE month, FR would change their tune. QUICKLY.
But it is not only 200 hour pilots who pay for type ratings with FR is it?
Everybody seems to. If people just said no for ONE month, FR would change their tune. QUICKLY.
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How can you compare ryanair to virgin?! yes the t's & c's are better with virgin, and the pay may even be better. but it's chalk and cheese. mr horgy is asking for comments on a low houred pilot joining his/hers first airline. and if you look back at my post you'll see that im talking about being at ryanair for a few years, gaining work and life experience, then moving on to one of the airlines youve named. for an answer on those people who have thousands of hours experience and still choose to join ryanair- you'd have to ask them. however id expect them to explain that they know theyre getting treated poorly, they are home every night, have a fixed roster and know when they'll be home, and have great staff travel benefits- especially if they live away from their base. for those who have families these points are extremely important. believe it or not some people are prepared to sacrifice payment to cover travel, uniform and dry cleaning for the extra time they get to spend with their family. how would a new dad find it with a random roster flying long haul?
so why do people choose to pay to join ryanair? it just suits some people.
so why do people choose to pay to join ryanair? it just suits some people.
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Stansdead
I work for ryanair and a good friend of mine works for Virgin and I do earn more than him. £3000 pounds a month is bulls++t i took home £4450 last month.. How much did you earn as a F/O.
Pay for a hotel twice a year really does not break the bank.
Taking healthy food to work is maybe better than eating the Sh+t you might get served full of fat.
Pension I have my own.. Plus enough net pay to afford 5 houses
How many do you have. Do you really think your pension is worth that much
Love sausage
I work for ryanair and a good friend of mine works for Virgin and I do earn more than him. £3000 pounds a month is bulls++t i took home £4450 last month.. How much did you earn as a F/O.
Pay for a hotel twice a year really does not break the bank.
Taking healthy food to work is maybe better than eating the Sh+t you might get served full of fat.
Pension I have my own.. Plus enough net pay to afford 5 houses
How many do you have. Do you really think your pension is worth that much
Love sausage
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not bad..
Well said sausagefinger, Im with RYR now, and enjoy it! Have paid for my type myself, home every night, brand spanking new airplanes that are xtremely well maintained.
I don't want longhaul, don't want to be away from my family for days in a row, and honestly I have eaten enough infested crewfood in my life to manage without for the rest of it!!!!
Careerwise, I bet cadets that stay on with RYR will make more money than anyone in a so called lecay-airline will make over their 40year career. Upgrade to captain at age 25, put away £15k in a pension fund a year for 15 years plus the company contribution(£5K), let that money swell till you retire and have a good laugh at your friends that decided to "wait it out" in order to not pay for a rating. They got a job with BA at 28, with luck captains at 42 at the lowest payscale, lowest on the bidding list. They will do London-Manchester in the weekends for the next two years.
Depending on how you look on it RYR may not be so bad, it sure is a lot of airlines out there where you are worse off!!!!
Question at the end here: Is there really a need to tell people they are stupid just because they have invested in their future?
I don't want longhaul, don't want to be away from my family for days in a row, and honestly I have eaten enough infested crewfood in my life to manage without for the rest of it!!!!
Careerwise, I bet cadets that stay on with RYR will make more money than anyone in a so called lecay-airline will make over their 40year career. Upgrade to captain at age 25, put away £15k in a pension fund a year for 15 years plus the company contribution(£5K), let that money swell till you retire and have a good laugh at your friends that decided to "wait it out" in order to not pay for a rating. They got a job with BA at 28, with luck captains at 42 at the lowest payscale, lowest on the bidding list. They will do London-Manchester in the weekends for the next two years.
Depending on how you look on it RYR may not be so bad, it sure is a lot of airlines out there where you are worse off!!!!
Question at the end here: Is there really a need to tell people they are stupid just because they have invested in their future?