Aer Lingus Pilots to Strike

[Green Army]

MOL taking over???

Ryanair raises its stake in Aer Lingus to 28%

Ryanair is believed to have spent €37.6 million yesterday increasing its stake in Aer Lingus to 28 per cent.

See www.irishtimes.ie

WAUW WHAT IS HAPPENING???

(if we strike, MOL will take even more!!) Surely thats the last thing we want. So let us stop here. Let us, as pilots, be the grown ups and protect what we so despirately wish to protect.


Why dont the AL pilots take the strike of the table and sit down with the management. I truly think that the thread of striking is as effective as actually striking. Its not in anyones interest to let the strike go through.

Let us now sit down after giving the AL management a clear message that talks are needed AND if we sit down AL management needs to be willing to listen and act on it.

LET's GO FOR IT, DONT LET MOL TAKE OVER THE BEST AIRLINE IN THE SKY!!!

[OneWorld22]

I've been telling people this strike action is playing exactly into MOL's hands..

He is loving this. If a situation came where the intransigence eventually caused Mannion to walk as his position would be untenable. What reputable, talented businessman would ever come in and take over? Who would want such a poisoned chalice where you cannot make commercial decisions without your workers saying no and walking out?

The stock price will tumble and nobody will want to invest. The airline will then be offered at a cut price and who would be the one to step forward??

He'll happily take a loss as FR have such a war chest and he will take over the airline.

[Green Army]

Dont get me wrong. I am completly behind the pilots. I am waiting to start with AL my self. But I do think that when we actually go through with the strike we will do more damage than good. I think we need to call it "off" for now and sit down.

The whole Nation is listening and looking at us and what we do now. We can make or brake the airline by striking or not striking. So why dont we stand down....for now. We have got the message across to all people involved. We have everbodies attention. Now is the time to make a difference. If after the talks AL wishes to continue with their plans than I think we should go ahead and pull the plug.

I think by fighting like children is in MOL's attention because nobody looks at him while we are fighting like children like..." you give up first...no, you give up first etc etc.

I think we have a message to bring across with calling a strike, now is the time to sit down.

Please let us stop calling eachother names. We need to come with a sollution without diagnosing the causes and symptoms for days on this thread!!!

We are the sollution in this. People will respect us for it!! Investers wont run away to please MOL because they are scared of loosing their money in shares.

C'MON GUYS!!

[Visual Calls]

He'll happily take a loss as FR have such a war chest and he will take over the airline.

One small, yet vexing, point for mol, is that he is legally prohibited from taking over.

To reiterate, the pilots are happy to open bases in BFS, BHX, WAW or Timbuktu, wherever. Is it too simple to ask that management abide by the agreements they freely entered into? Is it too much to ask them to talk to the IALPA?
If we wanted to work for o'leary air, we could walk across the car park to the white house and get on with being shafted right now, rather than wait for it at EI, as come it surely will if cheaper bases happen. History says it will. Only the stupid don't learn from history.

Unfortunately, competing against FR, their RPMs are probably some of the lowest also.

I suggest you peruse the relevant financial literature before commenting.

[Visual Calls]

If after the talks AL wishes to continue with their plans than I think we should go ahead and pull the plug.

There are no talks. Management won't talk. The pilots will talk at any time or place of their choosing.
The management want a strike. The agenda is much bigger than BFS. The agenda is to break IALPA.
If IALPA is broken, you may as well not bother looking for a job in EI, just go straightaway to ryanair. Which will be lost too, as IALPA (and BALPA) are the only ones trying to help the ryanair pilots (which is more than most ryanair pilots are doing for themselves ).
This profession has been in freefall for years, and that's with union protection. Where the hell d'you think it will be in another 10 years if management get their way 100%?

[papa2andcharlie]

So why dont we stand down....for now. We have got the message across to all people involved. We have everbodies attention. Now is the time to make a difference. If after the talks AL wishes to continue with their plans than I think we should go ahead and pull the plug.

With all due respect, you're on the outside looking in. If you actually believe that we haven't done everything that you've suggested for weeks/months/years with management and instead we've simply decided to down tools at the first hurdle - that's very naive.

It is a matter of FACT that this management and our beloved Willie Walsh predecessor ONLY start listening when the planes stop flying. Something IALPA and it's pilots wish could be changed.

PS. EI Management don't appreciate seeing their cadets/applicants posting on these types of forums. Considering your position (in holding pool and nice simple to identify username) I'd just sit back for a few weeks.....

[splitpot]

Well said jpb...agree totally. Am sick of fighting to get started with any decent airline and when I hear about this strike all I think is am I right to even have gone through what I did to get this far. I keep hearing the comments from ground staff and others like "here go the pilots throwing their toys out of their prams again" and "greedy" being mentioned again and again. Going on strike is doing nothing to improve the image of pilots being overpaid and doing nothing for huge salaries. What makes it worse is that all of a sudden Michael O'Leary is being touted as a hero for fighting the EI SNN decision and for calling his pilots peacocks and telling them to f$&k off every two years to put them back in their boxes.

This strike is counter productive if you ask me.

[BBT]

J.P.Balkenende you seem to be one of the many people who missed the actual reasons for this strike. It was caused by the unwillingness of management to adhere to previous agreements and to enter into talks. (I gave specific information on my sources for this in an earlier post - mainly the Irish Times). Aer Lingus said that they would only enter into talks if they could continue with aspects of their original Belfast proposal, so they rejected the offer of talks from IALPA.

oneworld22, am I to presume that your post immediately above is a considered position - or perhaps it is intended as a joke? You sound like someone who has read Chapater 1 of "The Stockmarket for Infants" and now knows how the world "really works"!! (If your analysis is serious I am not sure that there is much sense in trying to sort out the causes of this with you).

What each of us thinks abouit this dispute comes down to one simple issue - who do we think is being unreasonable and inflexible. On the basis of the evidence outlined in the papers it seems clear that management are completely determined to do what they want to do. It seems equally clear that IALPA reacted to this. (As did the people in the West of Ireland to the Shannon decision). What I would like to see or hear about is any evidence that clarifies who is causing the problem. So far the answer seems self-evident to me.

[Green Army]

BBT Thank you for your reply. I do understand the reason why the strike is on the table. I also believe that by striking we do more damage than good. One would think that by striking you are trying to bring a message across. And I think we managed to do that. Look at all the media attention. So to me now is the time to reap!!

Other point of attention is that by fighting in a close circle you loose attentuion for what is happening around you i.e. MOL and his ambition to tackle the airline.

Now is the time to protect what we think needs to be protected. Dont let it slip away because of our ambition to make a statemant.

THNX

[potkettleblack]

JP what do you propose? The pilots go and talk and talk and talk again. Have more meetings perhaps. Or maybe agree on things that are subsequently rescinded by management. The current discussions have been ongoing for years. Management has put out its stall by the tack they have taken in regards to Belfast. This is a major change in stance for them. Never before have they been so aggressive. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and unfortunately for management the only thing that will bring them to the bargaining table is the threat of a strike. This is the only thing that will hit them in their wallets.

Or perhaps you will be happy to buy your own type rating and fly out of Belfast. Maybe you would be happy to be moved to another base after a year or be told that your terms and conditions are subject to change without notice? Maybe you would like to work for an airline full of transients. You know the sort of airline where people come in for a few years, build their hours, take whatever deal management are willing to offer them and then move onto something "better". Maybe you don't care about the prospects of being in command when management will get someone in who is willing to fly for half the price. They might be able to even get a waiver so they don't need a JAA licence.

Problem is where is this better airline that you will hope to move onto in a few years? You tell me.

[BBT]

J.P.Balkenende you say "now is the time to reap" - but if nobody will talk, how do you "reap"? In any case, there is no need to reap, there is only a need to talk and reach an agreed position between the parties. That's how I see it.

I was just interested in seeing if anybody had some information that I missed about who is being the problem here - it is often the case that there is more going on that we are told in the media ............... but ... nothing forthcoming so far.

[snaga]

Splitplot – good news, there is a solution for your problem!

If you want to be poorly paid pilot and to only work for 18 hours a week you can pay Ryanair (the High Pay airline) for a B737-800 rating and join them to be bonded in for several years of cheap labour. Given your outlook they will welcome you with open arms, so your job prospects are nothing like as poor as you think.

As a bonus you could probably arrange to have your licence or a tee-shirt endorsed “Not a strutting peacock” and “Proud to employed by MOL”.

[Visual Calls]

I was just interested in seeing if anybody had some information that I missed about who is being the problem here - it is often the case that there is more going on that we are told in the media ............... but ... nothing forthcoming so far.

There won't be anything else forthcoming, because there is nothing else beyond the very simplicity of it all: the unilateral breaking of written agreements.

The end game is to avoid going down the ryanair route as this will surely happen if things proceed as management wish. Potkettleblack very succinctly assesses the situation in that regard. The reality is that the profession is at precipice. The "good" airlines are disappearing fast and if the rot is not stopped we'll all work for either ryanair or ryanair-lite. There'll be no escape, no "career" airlines, no "good airlines." Either get used to it or stand up.

[splitpot]

See snaga, this is my problem. Because of the "peacocks", all that is left for me it seems is the MOR route and several years of cheap labour as you say. A lot of people who think they know it all on this and other forums became pilots in a time when if you became a cadet (with EI) for example, you were guaranteed a job with them on good wages and conditions. Now, I am sure you are going to have a story about how hard you worked and how much it cost, but I don't care about that because that does nothing to improve my position. There I go again, thinking about myself..Maybe I am cut out to be a "peacock".

[Green Army]

I think what AL pilots are doing is great, I wish all pilots did the same. Stand up for the proffesion we all love. Dont let people like MOL and DM force us into something we dont want to!

But I also think by striking we do just that what MOL wants and that will leave us with nothing and by sitting down and talk to the management we win the most. But I think we need to take the thread of striking of and wait what AL does. They made it clear...take the strike of the table first and then we can talk.

So to me it looks clear...take it of the table..for now and get on with it! By striking we will be in the hands of MOL and then what?? DM will be sacket when we strike and MOL will increase his shares to 50% because every invester in running away as fast as they can.

Believe me I am fully aware of the situation and I am behind all the pilots that are willing to show some back bone and say no!

[Visual Calls]

by sitting down and talk to the management we win the most.

The difficulty here is that THEY REFUSE TO TALK.
The pilots have made numerous offers. They don't want to talk. They want a strike as part of the agenda to bury IALPA.

Believe me I am fully aware of the situation

Not sure you are mate! Your support is appreciated though and I look forward to welcoming you aboard on the same industry standard T&C's already enjoyed by your future colleagues.

[Le Rocket]

Solidarity in numbers

http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/recruitme...0(Ireland).pdf

[OneWorld22]

oneworld22, am I to presume that your post immediately above is a considered position - or perhaps it is intended as a joke? You sound like someone who has read Chapater 1 of "The Stockmarket for Infants" and now knows how the world "really works"!! (If your analysis is serious I am not sure that there is much sense in trying to sort out the causes of this with you).

Oh please mate!

Not another one who thinks he has a good grasp of how the market works

[Iolar]

Another possible scenario-EI pilots strike and are successful in guaranteeing the same T&C for their NI colleagues. Oh, now hold on, the cost of living in NI is less than in the Republic, our NI colleagues have more spending power than us on the same salary-strike! Again the customers are the losers

[Desert Diner]

Does anyone know exactly what EI's long term plans from BFS are?