Aer Lingus Pilots to Strike
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Checktunset - has the AOC penny dropped for you now?
Are you beginning to cop on to the hole Mannion is digging for himself?
And as previously stated on another thread (which I'm sure you've read) I'm a Captain with over 25 years service. I think you can guess who I work for, but seniority number?
Don't push your luck laddy.
Are you beginning to cop on to the hole Mannion is digging for himself?
And as previously stated on another thread (which I'm sure you've read) I'm a Captain with over 25 years service. I think you can guess who I work for, but seniority number?
Don't push your luck laddy.
Jolly Green Giant
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Latest update. Impact has written to the LC asking it to clarify if Belfast was included as a foreign base when it made it's recommendation! Surely any reasonable person would classify Belfast as a Foreign base...
Last Updated: 27/08/2007 18:36
Impact queries status of Aer Lingus Belfast base
There is speculation this evening that Aer Lingus cabin crew may join pilots in the dispute with management over the establishment of a new base in Belfast.
This follows confirmation from Impact, which represents pilots and cabin crew, that it has written to the Labour Court querying whether its recommendation on "foreign bases" was meant to include Belfast.
The recommendations, issued last February, said that management should be allowed to recruit staff in foreign bases at local pay rates.
But Impact today published details of a letter of enquiry sent to the Labour Court on August 21st which sought clarification on whether its recommendation on foreign bases was intended to include Belfast.
The union also asked whether the Labour Court understood that the opening of any new base would be at the expense of staff at existing base.
The Court has written to Aer Lingus asking for its observations in relation to Impact's enquiry and has promised to reply to the union's letter once it has received the airline's response.
The move has fuelled speculation that Aer Lingus cabin crew may join pilots in their opposition to management's plan to hire pilots for Belfast on inferior terms to Dublin-based pilots.
Meanwhile management and union representatives were back before the Labour Relations Commission (LRC) today for talks over the airline's new Belfast base.
Discussions on the row, which had threatened to ground the airline's fleet for two days last week affecting around 40,000 passengers, were adjourned at the LRC last Wednesday afternoon.
The dispute centres on whether the Irish Airline Pilots' Association and Impact should have a role in negotiating the pay and conditions for pilots recruited at the new Northern Ireland base.
The union claimed pilots recruited in Belfast would be on worse terms and conditions than those that apply in the Republic.
But the airline insisted pilots would get higher salaries at the early part of the pay scale, although they would not be allowed participate in the defined benefit pension scheme.
Aer Lingus said unions could not be involved in talks on bases outside the Republic.
The pilots' union said last week they were optimistic a solution could be found to resolve the disagreement. Further talks are also scheduled for Thursday and Friday.
Impact queries status of Aer Lingus Belfast base
There is speculation this evening that Aer Lingus cabin crew may join pilots in the dispute with management over the establishment of a new base in Belfast.
This follows confirmation from Impact, which represents pilots and cabin crew, that it has written to the Labour Court querying whether its recommendation on "foreign bases" was meant to include Belfast.
The recommendations, issued last February, said that management should be allowed to recruit staff in foreign bases at local pay rates.
But Impact today published details of a letter of enquiry sent to the Labour Court on August 21st which sought clarification on whether its recommendation on foreign bases was intended to include Belfast.
The union also asked whether the Labour Court understood that the opening of any new base would be at the expense of staff at existing base.
The Court has written to Aer Lingus asking for its observations in relation to Impact's enquiry and has promised to reply to the union's letter once it has received the airline's response.
The move has fuelled speculation that Aer Lingus cabin crew may join pilots in their opposition to management's plan to hire pilots for Belfast on inferior terms to Dublin-based pilots.
Meanwhile management and union representatives were back before the Labour Relations Commission (LRC) today for talks over the airline's new Belfast base.
Discussions on the row, which had threatened to ground the airline's fleet for two days last week affecting around 40,000 passengers, were adjourned at the LRC last Wednesday afternoon.
The dispute centres on whether the Irish Airline Pilots' Association and Impact should have a role in negotiating the pay and conditions for pilots recruited at the new Northern Ireland base.
The union claimed pilots recruited in Belfast would be on worse terms and conditions than those that apply in the Republic.
But the airline insisted pilots would get higher salaries at the early part of the pay scale, although they would not be allowed participate in the defined benefit pension scheme.
Aer Lingus said unions could not be involved in talks on bases outside the Republic.
The pilots' union said last week they were optimistic a solution could be found to resolve the disagreement. Further talks are also scheduled for Thursday and Friday.
Jolly Green Giant
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I'm saying that the LC made their recommendation saying that management could apply local market conditions to any new foreign base opened.
Belfast is in another country....
Belfast is in another country....
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I know what you're getting at, but I think this particular example is a little bit more sensitive than say, for example, the base was on Birmingham, etc.
Living in N.I., you are perfectly entitled to be an Irish citizen, hold an Irish passport, etc. This does not apply to the rest of the U.K.
It will be interesting to see how the labour court clarify this position. Flynn already said he was not told Belfast was on the cards as a possible base.
Living in N.I., you are perfectly entitled to be an Irish citizen, hold an Irish passport, etc. This does not apply to the rest of the U.K.
It will be interesting to see how the labour court clarify this position. Flynn already said he was not told Belfast was on the cards as a possible base.
Last edited by jonjoe; 27th Aug 2007 at 19:41.
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a provision in the Good Friday Agreement recognising:
"The birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland."
From memory there's also a bit in there upholding "equality" for all the citizens of the island
"The birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland."
From memory there's also a bit in there upholding "equality" for all the citizens of the island
Jolly Green Giant
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Agree with you. Lets see what the outcome is, seems to be positive vibes coming out, so hopefully an agreement can be made and the airline can move forward and fight off FR.
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I'm not trying to start a political debate either.
Just pointing out the reason why I believe the labour court can only come to one conclusion on whether BFS, in legal terms, can be considered "Foreign".
Just pointing out the reason why I believe the labour court can only come to one conclusion on whether BFS, in legal terms, can be considered "Foreign".
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CK my reference to seniority number was 'tongue in cheek'. The way I see what was going on was that everybody was backing themselves into their own corner and that can't be good. I do admit that I am a little surprised that the management didn't see a lot of this coming ages ago. Anyway I hope it gets sorted for everybody's sake in a sensible manner and without industrial action.
wrt the classification of BFS as a foreign base, I'm afraid that I agree that there can only be one answer to this..it is (at least for now anyway). BFS based crews will be subject to UK employment laws and taxation. You will notice on other threads the 'fun' Easyjet is having with this in Europe. It would be daft for EI or the Unions to see it any other way as irrespective of what they think, the HMRC and UK Govt will treat it as their jurisdiction. This will also encompass 'Fair Employment' legislation (something which has been commented on earlier) which may make the whole transfer poilcy between bases pretty cloudy and is possibly why the management has said 'no transfers'.
This has nothing to do with anybody's right to be Irish or British and is should not be cofused in this way.
Another interesting offshoot of this would be IALPA's jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure BALPA would have to be involved as they are a recognised UK Trade Union. Perhaps they will arrange some bilateral agreement.
wrt the classification of BFS as a foreign base, I'm afraid that I agree that there can only be one answer to this..it is (at least for now anyway). BFS based crews will be subject to UK employment laws and taxation. You will notice on other threads the 'fun' Easyjet is having with this in Europe. It would be daft for EI or the Unions to see it any other way as irrespective of what they think, the HMRC and UK Govt will treat it as their jurisdiction. This will also encompass 'Fair Employment' legislation (something which has been commented on earlier) which may make the whole transfer poilcy between bases pretty cloudy and is possibly why the management has said 'no transfers'.
This has nothing to do with anybody's right to be Irish or British and is should not be cofused in this way.
Another interesting offshoot of this would be IALPA's jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure BALPA would have to be involved as they are a recognised UK Trade Union. Perhaps they will arrange some bilateral agreement.
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Both sides should learn to love your neibour and you love yourself. The fault/disfunction and solution can ony be found if both parties subdue their ego's and look at the clear core of the problem. The really is no problem - it is only man made and temporary - like anything man makes.
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That almost brought a tear to my eye it was so eloquently put.
Unfortunately I can't reconcile how a drop in pay and conditions and a lack of promotion prospects could be akin to an "ego" issue.
Unfortunately I can't reconcile how a drop in pay and conditions and a lack of promotion prospects could be akin to an "ego" issue.
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I wonder how much "love" and "respect" there is in a euro?
50 repsects in a love, and 20 Loves to the euro perhaps?
Will my bank manager take "love" instead of hard cash for my mortgage? Perhaps I should try?
50 repsects in a love, and 20 Loves to the euro perhaps?
Will my bank manager take "love" instead of hard cash for my mortgage? Perhaps I should try?
Last edited by snipes; 31st Aug 2007 at 18:09.