Aer Lingus Pilots to Strike

[Visual Calls]

Yes it would INLAK.
Now that the pilots have demonstrated that we won't role over like ryanair pilots, hopefully we can negotiate in an adult fashion, as is prevalent elsewhere in the industry.
As demonstrated by our financial commitment to keeping AL independent, the pilots can be the best friend of anyone seeking to strengthen the airline. So let's hope a mutually acceptable agreement is now thrashed out.

[CaptKremin]

Now,wouldn't it have been much easier for management to have just sat down and talked in the first place, instead of instigating their failed poilcy of engineering a strike and trying to force the pilots to capitulate?!

Yes, but there's more than one way to capitulate - I hope there is no sell-out.

[Stand31]

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

The few, the brave, the pointless.

it appears micko is getting worried about this situation.

Must be lonely at the barricades, CamelhAir, with just yourself, the Dim Repa and a tepid flask of hot chockie for company. There’s nothing sadder than an old warrior who won’t admit, or as is more likely in your case, doesn’t know that the battle’s lost.

REPA, your IALPA funded fiasco has been comprehensively emasculated, its only lingering legacy the disfigured stickers calling for membership of the “punity disunity community” plastered all over our brand new aircraft, and now you’re reduced to spending your time gathering support for IALPA’s latest outrage of the indefensible.

Rather than appearing when our Alexander is in trouble, I rather think I lead the trumpet chorus. We now own thirty percent of EI, we have a massively expanding operation, the most profitable airline on earth by a very long way, margins of over 20% that would have even the most stoic airline CFO’s the world over salivating like hungry wolves, and that sounds like trouble to you, does it? Sounds like he’s doing alright to me.

You, on the other hand, chose to celebrate all this unbridled success, victory after victory, by calling for tacit support of the idea that a bunch of millionaire dingbat airbus drivers who actually believe the sweet bull**** IALPA has been feeding them for years that they’re better than anyone else, can reasonably object to Aer Lingus management choosing to do something cleverer with all those gorgeous LHR slots than operate half empty A320’s to SNN and ORK? What a strange world it must be, to live in CamelhAir land. Just like the stickers, you and those like you will peel, fade and become irrelevant.

Poor Dermot Mannion. Imagine running a company where even some of its pilots think as you do. If he had any balls at all, he’d break IALPA once and for all, exposing them and the drooling, polyester pygmy who leads its for the incompetent boobs and self-destructive imbeciles that they are. Left to their own devices, IALPA will destroy Aer Lingus through suicide by union. Its only hope of a future now is Ryanair.

[the grim repa]

run out of latin phrases?better at the barricade with friends than in a glass office with none.good idea to put that tot o rum in the hot chockie.still a loser!!!!

[Bearcat]

ehhh welcome back Leo, your posts always add colour to the forum.

In defence of my collegues whom you call millionaires, only those who have cash have it due to outside resourses as in family etc. No millionaires have been made flying with the green team, where as in the early days with FR many an FR pilot made a stack full thru your share options....alas that was in the past.

[bia botal]

One good thing to come out of this is that at least DM hasn't gotten into bed with MOL, well not yet anyway. Cool heads prevailed and now hopefully a result can be found where everyone wins, not just greedy managers who force the will upon others no matter what the cost.

Aer Lingus management choosing to do something cleverer with all those gorgeous LHR slots than operate half empty A320’s to SNN and ORK?

Careful leo your not towing the party line there, even your own Messiah wants aer lingus to remain on the route, according to MOL they are very profitable.

[CamelhAir]

Bearcat, you're wasting your time with responding logically. Leo is craven to the school of management that believes pilots should be merely grateful for their job and how dare they expect to actually be paid to do it (except himself of course).
His antipathy to his fellow pilot stems from his past life in which his inability to get command seems to have caused bitterness towards all that did. Ryr provided him with the much needed status, including (albeit temporarily) a training command, when no one else would, hence his bowing and scraping.
The level of begrudgery and one-up-manship in this place is truly frightening and Leo is merely the pprune face of it.

[Dublin Airgirl]

well this has turned into a very productive thread hasn't it???
on the actual talks, do you guys think ei pilots would settle for just being told that their t&c won't be impacted by belfast? if management offer to gauarantee that, and i expect they will, would the pilots strike position become untenable? assuming that management sign off on belfast t&c not influencing dub while keeping belfast t&c unchanged, that won't do anything to help the 20 or so pilots who want to move from dub to belfast and keep their own terms and conditions ....

[CaptKremin]

a bunch of millionaire dingbat airbus drivers

Here's a man, who lives in country mansion, with hundreds of acres of land, herds of pedigree cattle, chauffeur driven limos with private 'taxi plates' and a net worth in the hundreds of millions - attacking the 'greed' of ordinary working people.

His own workforce live on clippings of tin, while they sweat to enrich him even further each day.

Are there words to describe the crass hypocrisy of that?

Come the revolution Mick, you'll be the first agin' the wall....

[bia botal]

bia - that is mol you are reading.you can address him directly.what you address him as is up to you.he does share the lhc id with some other clown though.

Soz there grim, i was thinking t'was our (joyful) friend from germany.

[OneWorld22]

So far, so good...

Tuesday, August 21, 2007
Last Updated: 21/08/2007 18:51
Aer Lingus talks adjourned to next week

Talks between Aer Lingus management and the airline pilots' union Ialpa at the Labour Relations Commission have been adjourned until next Monday.

The talks started last night hours after the Irish Airline Pilots' Association (Ialpa) branch of the trade union Impact suspended the planned 48-hour strike by pilots for today and tomorrow in a row over the pay and conditions to be offered to pilots based at the airline's new hub in Belfast.

Aer Lingus pilots are optimistic that a solution can be found in the row over job conditions at a new hub in Belfast, they said.

Further talks are scheduled to continue on Thursday and Friday in a bid to resolve the deadlock.

The Irish Airline Pilots' Association (Ialpa), represented by the Impact union, had threatened to halt all Aer Lingus flights today and tomorrow, causing travel chaos to 40,000 passengers.

Impact assistant general secretary Michael Landers, who was joined by six senior pilots at the talks, refused to comment on what was discussed or the conduct of the negotiations.

"Both sides have agreed not to comment on the detail of the talks. Impact is optimistic that a resolution can be reached but we cannot put a timescale on that. A resolution will be reached when it is reached," he said.

Aer Lingus chief executive Dermot Mannion attended the first session of talks yesterday evening and was understood to be available today if needed.

[900]

Solidarity vs Transnational restrictive practices

Whatever the outcome of the talks, what you can be sure of is that the move towards flexibility and market-based pay won't halt here and nor should it.
Pilots, other airline workers (not necessarily airport workers) and certain folk in the medical & legal professions must some day go the way of all other luddites bent on protectionist self destruction. Why are you so scared of modern employment?
Some people watch airplanes as a hobby. Others watch restictive practices go they way they should.

[potkettleblack]

Don't feed the trolls. He is more than likely of the opinion that if we all took a massive pay cut then airfares will be even less than they are now and he can travel around for nothing at our expense. Needless to say he has overlooked the fact that management will give themselves huge bonuses and possibly pass on a bit to shareholders if pushed hard enough but rest assured the travelling public won't see any of these proposed savings!

[atse]

and possibly pass on a bit to shareholders if pushed hard enough

Not so. Shareholders are lucky to be allowed to buy Ryanair shares. They really don't have a right to any return on their investment, but in return they have the honour of allowing MOL to do as he deems fit with their money. Shareholders are nonetheless marginally better than stupid customers and certainly worthy of more respect than stupid employees.

The world looks different from where Leo sits. Interestingly, recent days saw the passing the "Queen of Mean" (Leona Helmsley), who had a talent for contemptuous behaviour towards employees and creative accountancy (among other attributes). Her mausoleum will reportedly cost $1.4 million. But it won't really help her legacy, which was created by her behaviour. As the Daily News (NY) put it:

Every era needs a few rich people who think their money makes them better than the masses, and ... Helmsley was the poster gal for the attitude.

In any case, "The Queen of Mean" is not a nickname easily shed. If she had any hope of refurbishing her image after her prison term, it pretty much ended when she got an additional 150 hours of community service for assigning employees to take care of some of her original 750.

Having money is a manageable offense as long as you don't seem to be acting like it makes you better than those who don't.

Now I wonder if Leo would have the slightest insight into the parallels ....

[Captain Galactic]

I wish the EI pilots well against this relentless attack on their pay and working conditions. I have watched with great disappointment how a career as an airline pilot has declined to such a point it is not worth the hassle anymore. The good old days are well and truly over!What happened to a bit of respect for the people who look after your safety when travelling by air. There is a plentiful supply of cheap labour now and that is all the beancounters care about. Well all this will end up biting the beancounters in the ass when all they can muster up are the dregs of society to fly their jets!

[ihtlucy]

A slightly different perspective

I've read this thread with interest and first must express my sympathy for those affected by the EI/pilots' move.

I'm in the aviation industry, but not working for an airline. I do use air travel a lot , and in particular EI.

My issue with many of the previous posts is that they miss the key point that whether we like it or not we live in a society where we are subject to market forces. Whether EI pilots like it or not, FR has been largely responsible for a massive decrease in the cost of flying and that has stimulated (in large part) the growth in passenger numbers - particularly in Ireland. This (probably) means that there are more pilots and crew - more jobs. If you take some of the views in this thread to their ultimate conclusion, EI will go out of business and you will all end up working for FR - that is simple market forces. I am a professional too, and was once a member of a union and went on strike. Now I accept that my skills have a market value and that is what I will get. As it happens my skills (I'm a Chartered Engineer) are now in increasing demand and my salary and conditions (ie my marketability) have improved. Also, if I go and live in a different place my skills will be worth more or less depending on the market.

As a passenger, I regret the pilots' proposed action, because I had to cancel my EI flight and book with FR instead. Will that mean I do the same in future? No, because I dislike the general attitude of MOL and his cohorts. It did annoy me though...(as did seeing the 44 days/yr holiday for EI pilots!).

I accept that my job is very different to a pilot's job. But, the market will win in th end...

[CaptKremin]

As a passenger, I regret the pilots' proposed action, because I had to cancel my EI flight and book with FR instead. Will that mean I do the same in future? No, because I dislike the general attitude of MOL and his cohorts.

Well there you go Lucy, FR may be cheaper, but you chose to fly Aer Lingus.
Why?
Perhaps because COST isn't always the sole motivation in choosing a product?

Aer Lingus has a particular product, which many people seem to like - just as you do.

So does BA, Virgin, Lufthansa, KLM, Air France and many other carriers.

Why do you see the argument as a 'beat Ryanairs costs or die' one?

I don't know which Aer Lingus service you use, but Ryanair are a shorthaul airline, and Aer Lingus are a mix of Long and Short haul.
The guys in Aer Lingus who have reached the highest point of the pay scale are flying long haul, and are instructors. Their remuneration is in line with that of other Long Haul carrier instructors.

You must compare apples with apples.

It did annoy me though...(as did seeing the 44 days/yr holiday for EI pilots!).

Where did that figure come from? The "Meeja"?
Its rubbish. Just like the 'pilots work 18 hours a week' rubbish.

But even if it were true - what are you comparing with? Aplles with apples? Take a look in Flight International Magazine this week. There's a job there being advertised with 31 days on and 31 days off.

A long haul pilot works shift work at the back of the clock - flying through the night duties up to 16 hours long, when 'normal' people are tucked up in bed at home. They fly trans-continental services with consequent jetlag effects. They often must day-sleep in hotels, instead of resting in their own beds.
Time off for these guys has to reflect the kind of stresses they are subject to as a result, and comparing their time off with office workers is just a sick joke.

Keep flying the green flag.

[papa2andcharlie]

....(as did seeing the 44 days/yr holiday for EI pilots!).

I really hate comments like these. Mainly because they're just thrown out there and NEVER checked.

I can ASSURE you I get no-where NEAR 44 days. But just as an aside, can I ask you to count these days:

Days off over Christmas:
Days off over Easter:
Days off for Bank Holidays:
Days off for Mid-Terms:
Days for leave:

Ours looks like this:


Days off over Christmas: 0
Days off over Easter: 0
Days off for Bank Holidays: 0
Days off for Mid-Terms: 0
Days for leave: High 20ies to low 30 (except very senior capts).


Does that sound fair? Does it compare to you? What's that, you actually get the same or more?

Don't even start on the 18 hours a week line either....

[papa2andcharlie]

Just beat me too it CaptKremin!