Aer Lingus Pilots to Strike

[Dublin Airgirl]

CK, not sure where you've been doing your googling, but "ireland ~ pilots ~ strike" turns up 1,400,000 results, while "ireland ~ journalists ~ strike" turns up 1,150,000. The sheer numbers weren't the point though, the point was that the numbers are completely irrelevant because of the random amount of duplication out there.
I also don't recall "hopping" on anyone for anything, and I try not to resort to hectoring and bullying in my posts. The idea of a forum is that different people can express different opinions. When someone bullies, insults and shouts down any one who's opinion digresses from their own, that pretty much defeats the point.
Funny how you're so into pilots freedom of expression on striking etc, but so unconcerned by the whole freedom of speech thing - ie the freedom of people to express opinions which are not shared by your good self.
My post was not just about journalists v pilots and who strike more, it was about the overall tone you adopt on this forum. It's not condusive to debate, unless that debate involves us all telling you how right and wonderful you are.

[OneWorld22]

Are you a journo? If so please note that 'condascending'(sic) has no 'a' in it. Tsk Tsk.

Dear oh dear, is this really the standard of "debate" we can expect now on this thread?

Pedant of the year award right there methinks....

For the umpteenth time, this is an open forum. Any registered PPRuNer is free to add to this debate until such time as Danny locks it strictly for Pilots only. And by god, just how boiring would this place be then?!

[ayroplain]

Well done, Curser, you just proved my point

[jonjoe]

This is not a debate, just pathetic bickering.

[CamelhAir]

The way to settle this so-called bickering is simple. All those non-pilots on the forum involved in putting down the EI pilots should reveal their occupations. Then everyone else can make uninformed comments about that occupation, pass themselves off as experts in the field, begrudge them their money, demand they work harder and generally put the boot in.
Bring it on if you're brave enough.

[CaptKremin]

To quote LHC ..... "you can almost hear the crickets chirping".

[CaptKremin]

Whether they get the correct number of returned contracts is an entirely different matter. Clearly the management are hedging their bets 'just in case' with the turboprop red herring but I very much doubt anybody with 1000hrs left seat prop will get a real look at an A320. There will be a significant number of applicants for these positions because at the end of the day, if the package isn't right you don't have to take it. EI have said nothing on the actual package other than an inference that basic will be circa £77k. the two airbus operations in BFS/BHD don't come cheap. MYT and BMI are full of senior guys on senior money. I don't think EI will be able to match those figures. EZY basic is around £74k but the total package seems closer to £90k depending on bonuses and alike. Does anybody actually know what they are planning with regards to pensions and duty pay etc? Until these figures come out the whole debate is largely meaningless.

And don't forget to tell us what the cost of the Type-Rating will be, how long the Bond will last, and WHO will do the training, 'cos unless this is all settled it won't be Aer Lingus trainers doing the training and checking, now or in future.
That should throw a large spanner in the works.

[chec tunset]

Can't see that being a large spanner really. There are plenty of TRTO's. Many of Europe's airlines are hiring contract pilots who are being checked by contracted trainers. It would obviously be better to have the whole mess sorted but if it degenerates to that level of hard-ball tactics then this would be an option open to them.

[jonjoe]

And a complete all out strike would once again be on the cards for Aer Lingus.
Respectfully suggest you read the previous pages on this subject.

[chec tunset]

[CaptKremin]

Can't see that being a large spanner really. There are plenty of TRTO's. Many of Europe's airlines are hiring contract pilots who are being checked by contracted trainers.

Really. Well my information is different. The AOC rules preclude it. Unless they can get a new AOC for Belfast and all subsequent bases.

In any case, who will do the training and checking in Dublin Base when all the instructors there have resigned their jobs?

No strike necessary.

By the way chectunset - what is it you do for a living? Who do you work for and in what capacity. I'm sure you won't mind saying.

[chec tunset]

Shorthaul Captain. UK AOC. No idea what's on your AOC but it clearly reads very different to ours. Would EI in BFS on a UK AOC make your happy?
Perhaps we should know who you are? rank? seniority number? position in Union? how many previous operators you've worked for? I'm sure you won't mind saying

[jonjoe]

Presumably you have a Chief pilot, Head of training, etc to satisfy the requirements of the AOC?

[chec tunset]

You mean postholders, of course, and your point is?

[jonjoe]

Then for AL to set up operations on a UK AOC, postholders will have to be appointed specifically for that operation. I think this would be very costly to do for every new base. Also. where would the aircraft be registered? If on the UK register,will they will have to remain in Belfast, and cannot be rotated through dublin for maintenence, etc?

This is only a small aside to the fact of the mutually signed job security and work practice agreements in place, ie. what this whole dispute is over...

[curser]

Chec tunset, I have been led to believe that a UK AOC would be both expensive and probably take over a year, What ever the solution to our issues it will be resolved long before that. Consequently the willingness of our own training and standards department to cooperate will be an important factor. I cant speak for CK, but no I would not be happy to see BFS on a UK AOC. We are one pilot body and we have one set of standards. If you know differently re a new AOC, I would be very interested to hear.

[moomin]

Uk AOC for just three a/c, even with expansion it would be too expensive. Also, UK FTL's allow for 12 hours min rest, IAA FTL's allow for 11 hours and as mentioned previously what about post holders etc.

Also, those going on about ONLY 1000 turbo prop hours, please remember that the EI Part A Gen or its equivalent allows for turbo prop command with 2000 hours total time or 2500 hours for jet command from memory. Neither of which has ever happened due to seniorty. The company will do a deal and so will IALPA, its their style and style of most union/company relationships. Start poles apart and meet in the middle.

[Stand31]

!!

[Bearcat]

DM and Doctor Liz have gone down a road with no turn back....don't know if they teased out all the scenarios....

[Visual Calls]

dont know if they teased out all the scenarios....

I'm sure they did. Just like they did with the flotation, pulling SNN-LHR, etc etc.