Monarch T & C's
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What do i do!!
Hi Guys. due to start with moanrch in jan...was really looking forward to it. I was leaving easy to come to monarch but now i am very unsure... have 500hrs and due cmd with easy this time next year! any suggestions as i am really confused now
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Not exactly 30 times 40K if you are talking about 6 months ? it would be half that wouldn't it ? I am not au fait with the arrangements between CTC and Monarch but the crews are not supplied for free. This arrangement predates 2004 by a long way, many of the initial CTC pilots are now Captains on the various fleets. Additionally there are significant additional training costs for large numbers of low hour pilots who need more resources. More training captains, more training sectors per individual. Nevertheless the cost benefits must still outweigh the negatives since so many low cost operators now do it.
Undoubtably there was a cost saving factor in recruiting so many low hour pilots, they are after all "low hour pilots". The people who are not thrilled are those experienced pilots from the military and other airlines who are now in direct competition for these same right seat placements. However the company no doubt had to look at what was going on in other low cost operations and compete accordingly.
Perhaps one day the situation will revert to that, where such low hour pilots are politely told to come back when they have aquired more experience ? In the meantime make hay while the sun shines. I believe that it is the insurance market that one day ( should it feel compelled to do so) will drive the market back to more "experienced" co-pilots.
Undoubtably there was a cost saving factor in recruiting so many low hour pilots, they are after all "low hour pilots". The people who are not thrilled are those experienced pilots from the military and other airlines who are now in direct competition for these same right seat placements. However the company no doubt had to look at what was going on in other low cost operations and compete accordingly.
Perhaps one day the situation will revert to that, where such low hour pilots are politely told to come back when they have aquired more experience ? In the meantime make hay while the sun shines. I believe that it is the insurance market that one day ( should it feel compelled to do so) will drive the market back to more "experienced" co-pilots.
I believe that it is the insurance market that one day ( should it feel compelled to do so) will drive the market back to more "experienced" co-pilots.
Why? How many accidents have been attributed to low experienced FO's? I read a lot of AAIB incident reports and I have to say I don't recall seeing many incidents caused by low experienced FO's. I'm sure there are a few, however there are also many reports where very experienced flight crew have made mistakes.
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Pitts1
Funnily enough I am going in exactly the opposite direction to you. Having worked for Monarch for a year and a half out of Man on the 320/321 I put my money where my moaning mouth was and finally did my last flight for them on Friday. For myself there were a few contributing factors that to be fair were not all to do with Monarch - however the rostering is a joke which leaves you so tired when you are off that all you can do is try to recover for the next stint. To add to this you can forget weekends off and any kind of a family life. The only saving factor for me was the bunch of people you work with day to day as you could not wish to work alongside any better people. That is really the only thing I will miss.
Office Pest
Funnily enough I am going in exactly the opposite direction to you. Having worked for Monarch for a year and a half out of Man on the 320/321 I put my money where my moaning mouth was and finally did my last flight for them on Friday. For myself there were a few contributing factors that to be fair were not all to do with Monarch - however the rostering is a joke which leaves you so tired when you are off that all you can do is try to recover for the next stint. To add to this you can forget weekends off and any kind of a family life. The only saving factor for me was the bunch of people you work with day to day as you could not wish to work alongside any better people. That is really the only thing I will miss.
Office Pest
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Pitts, Office Pest is right in rgds that your days off are pretty much recovery days. And good bye weekends. Our new scheduling agreement allows only 3 Sat/Sun combo days off by request a season. 2 if you add a Fri.
Just curious as to why you wanted to jump ship? You get paid more at easy, your pensions better as is your roster.
Was it the carrot of the 330? I think all new joiners will be waiting 3 yrs at the very least to see it, unless the company gets more. By then Monarch will have offered you the LHS if you have the req'd hrs. And again easy pay capts more! The 330 is nice but the novelty soon wears off, you do get to spend a week or so in some lovely lovely places.......... but to be home for a handful of days while away ALL the time in summer does grind you down. 1 or 2 trips a month would be ideal and do the rest S/H. But with the RS policy of no cost only the bare min of FOs and Capts are rated on it and thus away virtually permanantly, only flying the 320 to stay current! (LGW crews away the most, MAN crews the least)
If your single its a great. If you have a family or gf/bf not really! But having said that, you'll prob be a capt before flying it...
Bealzebub, i guess you havnt read the latest flight international. It looks like the current market forces have resulted in a new breed of FO (multi crew licence) which won't have a CPL or have even flown a 152 solo before getting to sit alongside you with 300 punters or so behind you. Probably wont be long before you remember the good old days of when one had to at least fly a plane solo before getting the RHS in an airline!
Just curious as to why you wanted to jump ship? You get paid more at easy, your pensions better as is your roster.
Was it the carrot of the 330? I think all new joiners will be waiting 3 yrs at the very least to see it, unless the company gets more. By then Monarch will have offered you the LHS if you have the req'd hrs. And again easy pay capts more! The 330 is nice but the novelty soon wears off, you do get to spend a week or so in some lovely lovely places.......... but to be home for a handful of days while away ALL the time in summer does grind you down. 1 or 2 trips a month would be ideal and do the rest S/H. But with the RS policy of no cost only the bare min of FOs and Capts are rated on it and thus away virtually permanantly, only flying the 320 to stay current! (LGW crews away the most, MAN crews the least)
If your single its a great. If you have a family or gf/bf not really! But having said that, you'll prob be a capt before flying it...
Bealzebub, i guess you havnt read the latest flight international. It looks like the current market forces have resulted in a new breed of FO (multi crew licence) which won't have a CPL or have even flown a 152 solo before getting to sit alongside you with 300 punters or so behind you. Probably wont be long before you remember the good old days of when one had to at least fly a plane solo before getting the RHS in an airline!
Last edited by Easy Ryder; 7th Nov 2006 at 00:39.
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Pitts!! Stay where you are!!
Office Pest voted with his feet and many of us are seriously considering our options... including captains. RS wanted our t&c's to be inline with Britannia... then they became much better than ours.. so he lowered the bar to Easy... then they overtook us.. and now?? The rumour network says RS wants us benchmarked with Jet2 - Do you really want to leave Easy for a an over rated promise of the 330? Trust me, it's not worth it and you will regret it. The folks you fly with our the best but we are all exhausted and dreaming of the revolution
Office Pest voted with his feet and many of us are seriously considering our options... including captains. RS wanted our t&c's to be inline with Britannia... then they became much better than ours.. so he lowered the bar to Easy... then they overtook us.. and now?? The rumour network says RS wants us benchmarked with Jet2 - Do you really want to leave Easy for a an over rated promise of the 330? Trust me, it's not worth it and you will regret it. The folks you fly with our the best but we are all exhausted and dreaming of the revolution
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Had an ex Easy FO jumpseating up to Scotland with me in recent days. He loves BA but says from a regional angle, easy was great and it looks like the day off agreement is only going to make life a little better.
I on the other hand do not miss the volatile nature of my roster changes, lack of choice of days off or inability to plan my life as a Monarch pilot. I did enjoy the people I must admit but the lifestyle sucked.
Most companies have similar starting pay, pensions and all. The key here is lifestyle and it looks like Easy win over Monarch any day. Sad to say really.
I on the other hand do not miss the volatile nature of my roster changes, lack of choice of days off or inability to plan my life as a Monarch pilot. I did enjoy the people I must admit but the lifestyle sucked.
Most companies have similar starting pay, pensions and all. The key here is lifestyle and it looks like Easy win over Monarch any day. Sad to say really.
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330 was the carrot
Yes your right, 330 was the carrot but was told 6 to 12 months!!! Are Monarch short of cmds and would a cmd be quick or still at 6 years. Easy is a good company but some training cpts are bullies which i did not enjoy or appreciate, and this even continues through to lpc and opc!!!! Thought Monarch was a great place to go, and waited several years to get here. But do have family so days off are important..was told that i would fly out of ltn assisgned base but again heard you get sent away to BHX ABZ and other destinations??
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Pitts, I don't know where 3 years comes from for the 330 - there are CTC guys and girls going on it now who have been with us less than 2 years and they're only going on it as they haven't got the hours for command this winter, the time for which will be sub 2 years after this winter's lot. Some ex-easy chaps got the 330 much quicker than this so, for once, I would believe what you were told at your interview.
LTN is by far the best place to be based on the 320 until they start schedules from there at the rate the MAN and LGW guys fly (will be a few years yet I think). On the 320 you will do BHX, EDI and AGP voyages but next year there is quite a bit more LTN flying so will be away much less.
And ER the SA hasn't changed our weekend day entitlements - that's the way they've always been - phone GM/AM and ask them!
LTN is by far the best place to be based on the 320 until they start schedules from there at the rate the MAN and LGW guys fly (will be a few years yet I think). On the 320 you will do BHX, EDI and AGP voyages but next year there is quite a bit more LTN flying so will be away much less.
And ER the SA hasn't changed our weekend day entitlements - that's the way they've always been - phone GM/AM and ask them!
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Pitts,
The ONLY way you'll see the 330 in 6-12 months is if the company gets more. I know for sure they are lookin (was told by a management pilot) for at least 2 or 3 more but when (if) we see them...... who knows. Problems are, a larger pax door req'd for the 90s evac in a charter config, and the right engines. Because our 320s and 321s have different engines, the CAA have stated any new 330s need to have the same engines as our current 2. A current FO joining now will be waiting at least 3 yrs if we stick with just the 2. If you get promoted to the LHS before then, the wait will be at least 8 yrs or more, probably more chance on being typed on the 787.
You'll be happy to know all trainers i've come accross in MON are all fair, and not bullies.
Days off in summer..... well you'll be working hard, real hard. Runs of 5 or 6 with only 2 days off in between are not uncommon. I got plot changed extra days off as i busted my 90hrs in 28days one month. Having said that the 2 sectors a day will feel a lot better than the 4 or 6 sectors your used too.
If your based in LGW you can expect to be sent to EDI for a few days in summer, however the rumour is the 757 guys will cover that next summer. Lots of horrible night flights too.
MAN pilots will get the occasional AGP nightstop which just started again this month. I think they still do ABZ but heard a whisper thats going to LTN crews as well? Someone please correct me.
LTN based pilots get sent EVERYWHERE! Hardly ever fly out of their base but the voyage money makes the bank account look good. Again great if your single but may be a pain with a family. LTN pilots easily make the most money.
BHX as far as i know go nowhere else.
Yes there may well be a CAPT prob shortly, however the raised retirement age will help this out a bit. 4000hrsTT to be considered, rumoured to be reducing to 3500hrs. Will depend on seniority, you may find yourself already having more than those hours but obviously those more senior to you will be promoted first.
Rushed,
The ex-EZ guys that got the 330 early, i believe worked for MON as CTC, went to EZ then came back to MON. This was what i was told, could be wrong.
Yes your right looks like those hired 2 yrs ago and last yr will only (have only) be waiting 2 yrs for the 330. However many many pilots have been hired earlier this year and many more this comming Jan and Feb. Based on that, and the average intake of new 330 FOs per year, it may be some time, ie more than 2 yrs, before they see the 330. If new joiners got bumped onto the 330 by-passing seniority, i imagine there will be a big who-ha about it! If we get a couple more 330s i think virtually everyone will be typed on them and it will be just a matter of waiting on your course date.
The ONLY way you'll see the 330 in 6-12 months is if the company gets more. I know for sure they are lookin (was told by a management pilot) for at least 2 or 3 more but when (if) we see them...... who knows. Problems are, a larger pax door req'd for the 90s evac in a charter config, and the right engines. Because our 320s and 321s have different engines, the CAA have stated any new 330s need to have the same engines as our current 2. A current FO joining now will be waiting at least 3 yrs if we stick with just the 2. If you get promoted to the LHS before then, the wait will be at least 8 yrs or more, probably more chance on being typed on the 787.
You'll be happy to know all trainers i've come accross in MON are all fair, and not bullies.
Days off in summer..... well you'll be working hard, real hard. Runs of 5 or 6 with only 2 days off in between are not uncommon. I got plot changed extra days off as i busted my 90hrs in 28days one month. Having said that the 2 sectors a day will feel a lot better than the 4 or 6 sectors your used too.
If your based in LGW you can expect to be sent to EDI for a few days in summer, however the rumour is the 757 guys will cover that next summer. Lots of horrible night flights too.
MAN pilots will get the occasional AGP nightstop which just started again this month. I think they still do ABZ but heard a whisper thats going to LTN crews as well? Someone please correct me.
LTN based pilots get sent EVERYWHERE! Hardly ever fly out of their base but the voyage money makes the bank account look good. Again great if your single but may be a pain with a family. LTN pilots easily make the most money.
BHX as far as i know go nowhere else.
Yes there may well be a CAPT prob shortly, however the raised retirement age will help this out a bit. 4000hrsTT to be considered, rumoured to be reducing to 3500hrs. Will depend on seniority, you may find yourself already having more than those hours but obviously those more senior to you will be promoted first.
Rushed,
The ex-EZ guys that got the 330 early, i believe worked for MON as CTC, went to EZ then came back to MON. This was what i was told, could be wrong.
Yes your right looks like those hired 2 yrs ago and last yr will only (have only) be waiting 2 yrs for the 330. However many many pilots have been hired earlier this year and many more this comming Jan and Feb. Based on that, and the average intake of new 330 FOs per year, it may be some time, ie more than 2 yrs, before they see the 330. If new joiners got bumped onto the 330 by-passing seniority, i imagine there will be a big who-ha about it! If we get a couple more 330s i think virtually everyone will be typed on them and it will be just a matter of waiting on your course date.
Last edited by Easy Ryder; 8th Nov 2006 at 21:05.
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Pitts your fate will depend very much on your total hours.
As a LTN based pilot you will do BHX and EDI almost exclusively on voyage (the 757 up there rumour has died I'm told). MAN pilots do the ABZ and you might get the odd AGP too (just restarted this winter). You'll do the odd LGW and MAN voyage too.
You won't do runs of 5 or 6 at LTN very often. This is MAN or LGW stuff. And not many night flights, although there are some out of Brum and the odd late LTN schedule to AGP.
I guess 600 hours would be average in recent years for a LTN base cf 800-900 at MAN or LGW.
As a LTN based pilot you will do BHX and EDI almost exclusively on voyage (the 757 up there rumour has died I'm told). MAN pilots do the ABZ and you might get the odd AGP too (just restarted this winter). You'll do the odd LGW and MAN voyage too.
You won't do runs of 5 or 6 at LTN very often. This is MAN or LGW stuff. And not many night flights, although there are some out of Brum and the odd late LTN schedule to AGP.
I guess 600 hours would be average in recent years for a LTN base cf 800-900 at MAN or LGW.
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Hard flying
With easy i average between a 10-12hr day, and i have to say thats hard!! Like to ask when you get sent to edi,agp and bhx are these few days away of week away? Thanks guys, these are the questions i wanted to ask in interview but they were running late, kept waiting for an hour and did not get all my questions answered, so i am really in the dark!!! and 
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Sorry forgot to say i felt thet were very keen on my total hours in the interview which are just over 5000hrs and that i had a atpl which they smiled upon!! Which made me feel that high hour chaps were what they are looking for at the moment!
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EDI is usually 3, 4 or 5 days (summer only) but this year there have been Days Off up there too within the run. BHX is generally a run of 5 mornings or afternoons or the dreaded afternoons into nights but there are a fair few BHX based F/Os now so in theory you shouldn't do it that often!
PM me if you want more info.
PM me if you want more info.
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I didn't mean the time to command was longer at easy, just that with it sub 2years in Monarch there isn't much in it by the time you've moved and done a year or so RHS.
Somehow I can't see MP agreeing to that, but hey, what do I know?Along with Office Pest I have just left Monarch and have now converted to the Orange ideology
. I must admit my roster looks pretty damn good! Also being able to plan what I will be doing in March is absolutely brilliant. Much like Office Pest I have enjoyed my time with Spotty M, and I miss my ex colleagues very much (Hi to those who may be reading), and the reasons for my move have much to do with basing. BUT what made it a no-brainer, are the TC's at eJ which are quite significantly better than those at Monarch. Time to command may be getting shorter at Monarch, but will it really become as short as ej's? Monarch's training dept are already under considerable strain, will they be able to cope with the extra burden? Time to command at eJ is essentially variable, but can be as low as year if you have the experience. The main bottleneck is, as usual the training capacity. I have been told that people are having to wait 6 to 8 months after their command assesment for a slot on a course.Both are good airlines, but the advantage now goes to eJ. But with more people voting with their feet who knows what RS will come up with. For now for those wanting to join Monarch from eJ or elsewhere I would say think very very carefuly, and avoid the FBW fleet at all costs.
oh just noticed my screen name is now obsolete. oh well I'll just stick with it for now in memory of the good old days!
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Does Anyone Know!!!!!
Hey guys
Does anyone know what the cmd time is for the A320 if you are joining with 5000hrs and previous airline/cmd experience. so people are telling me 6 yrs so are saying 12months-18 months at the longest. Would be grateful if anyone can shed so light on this subject as the time scale is very different.
Thanks guys
Does anyone know what the cmd time is for the A320 if you are joining with 5000hrs and previous airline/cmd experience. so people are telling me 6 yrs so are saying 12months-18 months at the longest. Would be grateful if anyone can shed so light on this subject as the time scale is very different.
Thanks guys
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Pitts,
Firstly, it does not matter which fleet you are on, you will get your command based on your seniority (at the moment!!) and you will change fleets if required.
At present the time to command is around 6 years, ie those waiting for thier command course this winter have been with here approx 6 years.
The 60+ age rule may prevent it coming down to the 12-18 months you mention however the expansion is expected to continue and many new recruits have very low experience levels.
My guess, and it is a guess, would be that it is unlikely drop below 5 years for the majority. I say that because the low experienced guys will be reaching the required level soon plus there will be very few retirements over the next 5 years.
Firstly, it does not matter which fleet you are on, you will get your command based on your seniority (at the moment!!) and you will change fleets if required.
At present the time to command is around 6 years, ie those waiting for thier command course this winter have been with here approx 6 years.
The 60+ age rule may prevent it coming down to the 12-18 months you mention however the expansion is expected to continue and many new recruits have very low experience levels.
My guess, and it is a guess, would be that it is unlikely drop below 5 years for the majority. I say that because the low experienced guys will be reaching the required level soon plus there will be very few retirements over the next 5 years.
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Pay Details for BACon
Hi guys,
From my viewpoint, Flybe is a company that has it's feet firmly planted and is eager to be a better employer and offer as good or better than the comp. Flybe has been good to me and I hope that those of you who work for BACon get what you are looking for by joining Flybe I am sure it is difficult to not know what is going to happen.
They are upping the current terms to match other employers. Can't say the last payrise was much to write home about though. Just wondering if anyone would mind sharing details with a current flybe girl. Wondering about things what day is payday, how much are disruption pay, shift change, day off and any other things you get paid for. What is flight pay like and how much is taxable, etc. Do you get much in the way of dispensation as Flybe just upped that to be in line with other airlines.
Good luck and just to say that Flybe is a happy little family and I for one hope you will be happy when you join.
I am sure our paths will cross at some time or another if you stay.
Thanks
Flygirl
From my viewpoint, Flybe is a company that has it's feet firmly planted and is eager to be a better employer and offer as good or better than the comp. Flybe has been good to me and I hope that those of you who work for BACon get what you are looking for by joining Flybe I am sure it is difficult to not know what is going to happen.
They are upping the current terms to match other employers. Can't say the last payrise was much to write home about though. Just wondering if anyone would mind sharing details with a current flybe girl. Wondering about things what day is payday, how much are disruption pay, shift change, day off and any other things you get paid for. What is flight pay like and how much is taxable, etc. Do you get much in the way of dispensation as Flybe just upped that to be in line with other airlines.
Good luck and just to say that Flybe is a happy little family and I for one hope you will be happy when you join.
I am sure our paths will cross at some time or another if you stay.
Thanks
Flygirl