GB Announcement 1st March (Crew thread)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pass?
Age: 49
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again, b***ocks.
Check your facts before shooting from the hip.
Who was paying who?, remember the 3 companies that came together to form BACX...BRAL, Brymon and of course the shinning knight BAR..
Do your sums matey the first two made profit, the later never did because of piss poor knowledge of how regional operations should be run. To this date our London cousins have bailed out of anything north of the Watford gap because they have never made it work.
I'm afraid your arrogance blinkers your judgement.
Check your facts before shooting from the hip.
Who was paying who?, remember the 3 companies that came together to form BACX...BRAL, Brymon and of course the shinning knight BAR..
Do your sums matey the first two made profit, the later never did because of piss poor knowledge of how regional operations should be run. To this date our London cousins have bailed out of anything north of the Watford gap because they have never made it work.
I'm afraid your arrogance blinkers your judgement.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: LGW - Hub of the Universe!
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what part of lgw crew being part of a mainline base and being part of the NSP is nonsense?
The cabin crew belonging to BA mainline and, thus coming under NSP agreements, are few indeed! For Flight Crews, those with contracts prior to September 2003 will be under BA Mainline, those who joined after will be "BA Gatwick and the Regions".
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by tallaonehotel
Again, b***ocks.
Check your facts before shooting from the hip.
Who was paying who?, remember the 3 companies that came together to form BACX...BRAL, Brymon and of course the shinning knight BAR..
Do your sums matey the first two made profit, the later never did because of piss poor knowledge of how regional operations should be run. To this date our London cousins have bailed out of anything north of the Watford gap because they have never made it work.
I'm afraid your arrogance blinkers your judgement.
Check your facts before shooting from the hip.
Who was paying who?, remember the 3 companies that came together to form BACX...BRAL, Brymon and of course the shinning knight BAR..
Do your sums matey the first two made profit, the later never did because of piss poor knowledge of how regional operations should be run. To this date our London cousins have bailed out of anything north of the Watford gap because they have never made it work.
I'm afraid your arrogance blinkers your judgement.
Former BRAL division after merger into BACX: Never made a profit
Former Brymon division after merger: In the black but from only 2 sources, the BRS-EDI route and and the BHX wet lease.
BAR: In the red, £11M profit from BHX but greater loss from MAN.
Note well, the only place BACX was making any money was from the monopoly EDI-BRS route, which fell apart when GO entered the market and offered faster, more frequent, reliable service for less money, and the BHX wet lease. In the latter you got paid a fixed fee to fly three Emb145s regardless of the load on certain routes. Much of the time they weren't operating anyway because they were tech, but you still got paid and BAR frequently subbed an A319 to cover. The BRAL aircraft? Well don't get me started. Remember the string of wheels up landings on the ATP?
So thats a rather different truism from the huge profits BACX was making (which strangely never seemed to feature in the companys accounts except in red ink). I remember a time three or four years ago when BAR was finally almagamated when the BACX pilots were gloating about how they were looking forward to taking our jobs. How we were overpaid and underworked. How we didn't understand the regional market. How you would soon take over LHR shorthaul and show us how to make a profit there.
Three years later what do we see? Surprise, surprise, you still haven't turned a profit. You've changed shape, you've changed strategy, you've made a lot of noise but you haven't made any money. LHR shorthaul is turning a profit, BACX is being sold off. A great advert for your special regional understanding huh? The reality is you see BRAL and Brymon as the great white knights but they haven't made any significant cash since Easy/GO/Ryanair came into existence. Sure you can blame BA if you like, or BAR, or any other scapegoat you choose, but the only significant profits you were getting were on monopoly routes with small aircraft. Along came the locos with the right aircraft for the job and they blew you out of the water. Whether you'd been bought by BA, bmi, Virgin, it really doesn't matter. You were yesterdays airline with the wrong business model, the wrong aircraft and the writing was on the wall a long time ago.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At the end of the day guys, something is in the offing for sure. There is much evidence to support the theory that GB will indeed take over at LGW but it may or may not affect the BA employees as they will be offered jobs at LHR when T5 opens next year. If you look at what is going on, GB have gently moved away from BA engineering, BA baggage loading and it looks like the check in is moving towards an independent also so when the announcement is made (by BA) that LGW is suspending operations as a mainline base there will be no union involvement because there will be no BA EOG! This will make things easy for Willie and also for GB who will carry on as now but with an expanded fleet (there is already rumours that there are 4 321s coming in 2007 instead of 1).
I think the product will be a low cost model with bases in LGW, BRI, MAN and EMA (which is the base structure currently at GB anyway). The ground staff at BRI know the routes are being expanded and when you consider this is a BA Connect service it seems a bit strange!!
All of the above is indeed speculation but based on the facts,work it out for yourself but those at EOG now, dont say you weren't warned
I think the product will be a low cost model with bases in LGW, BRI, MAN and EMA (which is the base structure currently at GB anyway). The ground staff at BRI know the routes are being expanded and when you consider this is a BA Connect service it seems a bit strange!!
All of the above is indeed speculation but based on the facts,work it out for yourself but those at EOG now, dont say you weren't warned
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no EOG, there hasn't been for a couple of years, and T5 will require less manpower not more. WW has given many hints that GB will not be a franchise next year and that doesn't point towards them taking over BAs LGW operation. It points towards them being cut loose on their own.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In law, you cannot make someone redundant in one part of a company whilst recruiting in another including a subsiduary.
Latest rumour circulating is that Airbus are trying to sell BA a load of 330's which they have lying around to replace 777's and will replace 737's for free with 320's etc. This sounds like keeping shorthaul at LGW as well as longhaul.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pass?
Age: 49
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Oh man you really need to get your head into the accounts. Here's how it really was:"
Now, was that the BA books or the BRAL/BRYMON figures??
We all now in the BA family that the pen pushers can manipulate these figures, I know for a fact that what you are talking about is a BA version of the BACX failure.
Sure the LOCo's have had a hell of a lot to do with the failings of BA in the regions, still doesn't excuse BA attitude to anything outside Heathrow.
Now, was that the BA books or the BRAL/BRYMON figures??
We all now in the BA family that the pen pushers can manipulate these figures, I know for a fact that what you are talking about is a BA version of the BACX failure.
Sure the LOCo's have had a hell of a lot to do with the failings of BA in the regions, still doesn't excuse BA attitude to anything outside Heathrow.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd suggest the figures at Companies House which are the ones the auditors signed off.
Re-heat - where are all these big A330 orders for then? The very strong rumours amongst those who claim to be in the know in BA are that Airbus are indeed willing to deliver about 10 A330s for virtually peanuts in order to secure orders for A320s for LGW and a few A380s for LHR. The A330s wuld just be a bridging fleet and would be replaced by A350s in due course. Just because Airbus is going through a lean phase doesn't mean a hefty discount isn't available. It costs money to keep an assembly line open with little going through it. The fixed costs are there anyway, might as well make marginal profit on building something, especially if it leads to orders for another line. Thats the kind of big picture thinking you don't see in BA.
Re-heat - where are all these big A330 orders for then? The very strong rumours amongst those who claim to be in the know in BA are that Airbus are indeed willing to deliver about 10 A330s for virtually peanuts in order to secure orders for A320s for LGW and a few A380s for LHR. The A330s wuld just be a bridging fleet and would be replaced by A350s in due course. Just because Airbus is going through a lean phase doesn't mean a hefty discount isn't available. It costs money to keep an assembly line open with little going through it. The fixed costs are there anyway, might as well make marginal profit on building something, especially if it leads to orders for another line. Thats the kind of big picture thinking you don't see in BA.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: london
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
guys i cant believe you still go on about this rumour that GB is taking over the LGW operation!!!! How?????????????? I mean galley is wild sometimes but I cant imagine something like this would ever be said and expect people to believe it:-) its true that GB is moving into Jubilee House but this hardly proves that is taking over the Gatwick operation of SF gatwick... i think the wildest guess would be that GB could merge with BA like it happened before with other airlines at Gatwick....but thats just a guess not even a rumour....but the rumour that GB is taking over the whole operation at Gatwick is not even a sensible guess!:-)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Crew Room
Age: 41
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
newbagr i agree
people have to look at the larger business model, atl, iah, dfw cannot move until the end of bermuda ii agreement, and (although i don't know) possibly mco and tpa although i doubt it. sflgw also operate daily to bgi(sometime2) would ba give this up to gb? i think not!
because lgw are NOT not governed by lgw and the regions. sf are now within the nsp before any contract alteration or major change then sf WOULD need to be offered similar employment within ba, as far as law goes it is governed by employment law.
airbus as a major fleet expansion at lgw? At lgw there at not only stands for lar a\c but also split atands eg 52 for a 777 or 52l and 52r for 737's as as unfortunate mishap the sh airbus do not fit upon the l and r stands and as ba has nearly 50 sh aircraft based at lgw 50 a/c not fitting upon half of the north terminal stands would not make business sense.
ba pulling out of lgw? pier 6 wouldn't have been built without a closed door, long term commitiment from ba. ba bought cal for a lgw presence and the routes, they're tryin to cherry pick them i.e. pos they're hardly likly to hand them over now.
the entire model is lhr business, lgw leisure, fleet simplification. on the books? nothing firm but leases and deal (airbus only at lhr ef until 2008) are coming up so if any sense is made, sell the lhr sh fleet, buy ng 73's for lgw/lhr dual base (dual fd) and a single boeing lh fleet. the discounts could be huge, ba has alread ruled out the a380 in favour of more a/c.
does that show light and sense boys?
people have to look at the larger business model, atl, iah, dfw cannot move until the end of bermuda ii agreement, and (although i don't know) possibly mco and tpa although i doubt it. sflgw also operate daily to bgi(sometime2) would ba give this up to gb? i think not!
because lgw are NOT not governed by lgw and the regions. sf are now within the nsp before any contract alteration or major change then sf WOULD need to be offered similar employment within ba, as far as law goes it is governed by employment law.
airbus as a major fleet expansion at lgw? At lgw there at not only stands for lar a\c but also split atands eg 52 for a 777 or 52l and 52r for 737's as as unfortunate mishap the sh airbus do not fit upon the l and r stands and as ba has nearly 50 sh aircraft based at lgw 50 a/c not fitting upon half of the north terminal stands would not make business sense.
ba pulling out of lgw? pier 6 wouldn't have been built without a closed door, long term commitiment from ba. ba bought cal for a lgw presence and the routes, they're tryin to cherry pick them i.e. pos they're hardly likly to hand them over now.
the entire model is lhr business, lgw leisure, fleet simplification. on the books? nothing firm but leases and deal (airbus only at lhr ef until 2008) are coming up so if any sense is made, sell the lhr sh fleet, buy ng 73's for lgw/lhr dual base (dual fd) and a single boeing lh fleet. the discounts could be huge, ba has alread ruled out the a380 in favour of more a/c.
does that show light and sense boys?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ummmm, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this thread about GB and NOT FOR SQUABBLING between disgruntled BA/ex BA/Bacon/ Whatever employees.....
Something IS going to happen.... That's quite obvious. There are just too many posibilities though, and anyone's guess is as good as mine. Let's just wait and see.
But please, grow up, stop bickering about who rescued who and all the other rubbish. If you've left BA and are happy about it, fine, shut up. If you're with BA and love it, fine, shut up.
Something IS going to happen.... That's quite obvious. There are just too many posibilities though, and anyone's guess is as good as mine. Let's just wait and see.
But please, grow up, stop bickering about who rescued who and all the other rubbish. If you've left BA and are happy about it, fine, shut up. If you're with BA and love it, fine, shut up.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: LGW - Hub of the Universe!
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FYI the commitment for Pier 6 was given before 09/11/03 - the reason why the development was halted after Osama's atrocities. BA never re-entered the agreements but because so much of the prefabricated structure was already manufactured, the BAA decided to press on during 2005.
None of the stands or gates at Pier 6 are exclusive to BA. The computer systems are on BAA's "CUTE" multi-user gateway and it is not unusual to see "First Choice", "Etihad" or "Astraeus" on a stand previously occupied by a BA aircraft.
We will wait and see what the announcement is on 1st March - one thing is for certain, it is unlikely to be good news for the Gatwick based BA staff!
None of the stands or gates at Pier 6 are exclusive to BA. The computer systems are on BAA's "CUTE" multi-user gateway and it is not unusual to see "First Choice", "Etihad" or "Astraeus" on a stand previously occupied by a BA aircraft.
We will wait and see what the announcement is on 1st March - one thing is for certain, it is unlikely to be good news for the Gatwick based BA staff!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Doha
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gb @ Brs
"""The ground staff at BRI know the routes are being expanded and when you consider this is a BA Connect service it seems a bit strange!!"""
Strange indeed. I am Ground Staff at BRS, and see the GB manager fairly frequently. The increase in routes ex-BRS are only proposals, which may have to be delayed until GB find new GH, as we (BACON) won't be there much longer.
Rgds GroundBunnie
Strange indeed. I am Ground Staff at BRS, and see the GB manager fairly frequently. The increase in routes ex-BRS are only proposals, which may have to be delayed until GB find new GH, as we (BACON) won't be there much longer.
Rgds GroundBunnie
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: EGKM
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
None of the stands or gates at Pier 6 are exclusive to BA. The computer systems are on BAA's "CUTE" multi-user gateway and it is not unusual to see "First Choice", "Etihad" or "Astraeus" on a stand previously occupied by a BA aircraft.
In fact none of the North Terminal stands are "exclusive" to BA. BA has preferred stands, which may well change season by season. Currently on P6 stand 101 is shared daily between all carriers. It would be very unusual though to see BA on stand 102.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re-heat - where are all these big A330 orders for then? The very strong rumours amongst those who claim to be in the know in BA are that Airbus are indeed willing to deliver about 10 A330s for virtually peanuts in order to secure orders for A320s for LGW and a few A380s for LHR. The A330s wuld just be a bridging fleet and would be replaced by A350s in due course. Just because Airbus is going through a lean phase doesn't mean a hefty discount isn't available. It costs money to keep an assembly line open with little going through it. The fixed costs are there anyway, might as well make marginal profit on building something, especially if it leads to orders for another line. Thats the kind of big picture thinking you don't see in BA.
http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/o...d_deliveries/#
In the order of: A330-200 A330-200F A330-300
Orders: 393 6 281
Deliveries: 246 0 205
In Operation: 244 0 204
I'm somewhat unsure how the number of stand someone uses is pertinent to this thread...zzzzz...
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bealine,
Bolleaux, I'm afraid. All mainline flightcrew are on the same contract irrespective of date of joining or base. Some are on secondment elsewhere (BACon as was and GSS) but their contracts are all the same.
For Flight Crews, those with contracts prior to September 2003 will be under BA Mainline, those who joined after will be "BA Gatwick and the Regions".
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The majority of "mainline" cabin crew took the company's offer and went to Heathrow before the introduction of the new "MidFleet" contract! If you look at the new contracts, they are under "BA - Gatwick and the Regions".
The cabin crew belonging to BA mainline and, thus coming under NSP agreements, are few indeed! For Flight Crews, those with contracts prior to September 2003 will be under BA Mainline, those who joined after will be "BA Gatwick and the Regions"."
True in respect of Ground staff but I was under the impression that all flying crew not just us Cabin Crew were now under NSP at LGW? Correct if wrwong though. I always though Pilots were dual base anyway certainly the 777 guys and girls must be???
I hasten to add the NSP is not mentioned in so much rigour as it is in LHR contracts though.
I think we all need to stop slating each other though to be honest it's internal aswell and whatever hapens a united and friendly workforce is what makes the job enjoyable not animosity.
The cabin crew belonging to BA mainline and, thus coming under NSP agreements, are few indeed! For Flight Crews, those with contracts prior to September 2003 will be under BA Mainline, those who joined after will be "BA Gatwick and the Regions"."
True in respect of Ground staff but I was under the impression that all flying crew not just us Cabin Crew were now under NSP at LGW? Correct if wrwong though. I always though Pilots were dual base anyway certainly the 777 guys and girls must be???
I hasten to add the NSP is not mentioned in so much rigour as it is in LHR contracts though.
I think we all need to stop slating each other though to be honest it's internal aswell and whatever hapens a united and friendly workforce is what makes the job enjoyable not animosity.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGKK
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GB airways
Take a look at the new GB airways website: www.gbairways.com
This looks more and more like a low cost airline... new logo with dot com hmmmm... my guess would be that GB Airways would be going their own way, and would not remain as a BA Franchise.
Why would they have a booking system on their main page now when they used the BA one previously??
Taking over BA at gatwick is the dream of some crew at GB, but it is exactly that, a Dream.
This looks more and more like a low cost airline... new logo with dot com hmmmm... my guess would be that GB Airways would be going their own way, and would not remain as a BA Franchise.
Why would they have a booking system on their main page now when they used the BA one previously??
Taking over BA at gatwick is the dream of some crew at GB, but it is exactly that, a Dream.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: sussex
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ILS 26L don't flatter yourself!!!! Also, as far as the website is concerned it's all about grabbing more business - we sell a ticket via a GB airways improved website and one via BA website - we get 2 pax. Good business. GB makes good money for BA at LGW, BA makes a loss - I wonder what WW thinks!!!!