Flybe to aquire BA Connect. Crew thread. (No Spotters)-(Part 2)
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I have read pprune for a while now and this is the first time i felt i needed to post anything. I work for flybe and have to say that i enjoy it. When JF is on my flights he tends to sit at the back and fall asleep but is very pleasant and we know that he led us through very bad times a few years ago.Mind you he does expect us to work hard. AS is not stroppy, but quite nice really maybe a bit young, but certainly not stupid and he has a decent team working for him. the flt ops director is an improvement on the last one, and the CSD is very good and well thought of. he like JF started life at the airport and hasnt forgotten. you do wonder how some of the others got their jobs though the CCO seems to know what hes doing.
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Heard today approx 120 flight deck crew at Bacon working their notice.all will be gone by April.If true,that is a devastating blow to Flybe in its attempts to swell flight crew numbers.apparently many would go sooner but other airlines cannot schedule type ratings in such short timescale.can anyone confirm this number of approx 120 crew leaving ?
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Yes its true. Flights are being cancelled on a daily basis due to crew shortages. The number of resignations is accelerating exponentially at the moment.
In a couple of months there won't be anything like enough people left to run the operation.
In a couple of months there won't be anything like enough people left to run the operation.
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Can't absolutely confirm it, but that number sounds spot on. I have never known anything like it! As far as 'going sooner' is concerned, I believe it is more to do with the consequences for bacon of losing a third of it's pilots, rather than the ability of any other employer to take them early! Bacon HAS to make everyone fulfill their contractual obligations or the flying program would collapse overnight! In fact, it already is!
I haven't spoken to a single pilot who is happily committed to their future in either flybe, or BACF. There will be further large numbers of pilots leaving all three companies in the coming weeks, and months.
Whatever flybe get out of this deal, I can confidently predict, it won't be many pilots!
I haven't spoken to a single pilot who is happily committed to their future in either flybe, or BACF. There will be further large numbers of pilots leaving all three companies in the coming weeks, and months.
Whatever flybe get out of this deal, I can confidently predict, it won't be many pilots!
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Heads in Sand for Transition Team?
When asked specifically at a BACON cabin services managment team meeting in Manchester last month about rumours of pilots leaving the business, Simon Witts replied " there are some pilots working notice but only a few more than normal and this won't affect the operation or sale"!!
So, either pilots on this site are posting misleading rumours, or La Witt and others have their heads in the sand!
So, either pilots on this site are posting misleading rumours, or La Witt and others have their heads in the sand!
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The hiring of all of Bacon pilots is a tactical thing as well. Look at what is happening. bmi have taken all the TRE's off the Q400 and the orange lot are taking all the highly experienced skippers. All that will be left are low hour CPL's.
The only good thing for the low hour chaps is that they will be assured of the right seat of the E195 to build as many hours as quickly as possible.
Down side is this non reducing bond. It's an advert that says Flybe is so bad that they have to shackle you to your seat. Oh and don't forget 4 months notice and £24 grand for flying a highly advanced aircraft! I used to earn more cutting grass.
JF needs to smell the coffee.
The only good thing for the low hour chaps is that they will be assured of the right seat of the E195 to build as many hours as quickly as possible.
Down side is this non reducing bond. It's an advert that says Flybe is so bad that they have to shackle you to your seat. Oh and don't forget 4 months notice and £24 grand for flying a highly advanced aircraft! I used to earn more cutting grass.
JF needs to smell the coffee.
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Well oldflyboy
were not posting misleading rumours., jst the FACTS. I'm afraid Simon F***witt simply doesn't have a clue what's going on, just like the rest of BACON management.
They are in a state of total denial of the fact that their once proud little fiefdom has now come to an end. Time to wake up guys and realise its over.
Once FlyBe announced that the final salary pension scheme would close, the one sweetener which caused many BACON pilots to stay with the company was removed. Lets face it, this was the only reason why people endured years of crap under NB, Tim de la Flop, Hutchings and the other clown Phelan.
FACT, how come at virtually every easyJet assessment day, half of the people there are from BACON?
FACT, easyJet say they expect to employ a third of the BACON workforce by the end of the year.
FACT, BACON pilots wanting to transfer to the EDI RJ operation have been rejected in favour of 200 hour wundekinde off the streets. The reason? Quite simply so many pilots are leaving BACON for pastures greener, there will be no one left to fly the 145/146/dash 8.
Its not just F/O's leaving either but many TRE/TRI's across all the fleets.
I'm sorry to say that BACON is now a shadow of its former self. A third of flight crew to leave shortly, engineers resigning, no-one left in Nav services etc etc. Another couple of months of these losses and it will be unable to function. FACT.
were not posting misleading rumours., jst the FACTS. I'm afraid Simon F***witt simply doesn't have a clue what's going on, just like the rest of BACON management.
They are in a state of total denial of the fact that their once proud little fiefdom has now come to an end. Time to wake up guys and realise its over.
Once FlyBe announced that the final salary pension scheme would close, the one sweetener which caused many BACON pilots to stay with the company was removed. Lets face it, this was the only reason why people endured years of crap under NB, Tim de la Flop, Hutchings and the other clown Phelan.
FACT, how come at virtually every easyJet assessment day, half of the people there are from BACON?
FACT, easyJet say they expect to employ a third of the BACON workforce by the end of the year.
FACT, BACON pilots wanting to transfer to the EDI RJ operation have been rejected in favour of 200 hour wundekinde off the streets. The reason? Quite simply so many pilots are leaving BACON for pastures greener, there will be no one left to fly the 145/146/dash 8.
Its not just F/O's leaving either but many TRE/TRI's across all the fleets.
I'm sorry to say that BACON is now a shadow of its former self. A third of flight crew to leave shortly, engineers resigning, no-one left in Nav services etc etc. Another couple of months of these losses and it will be unable to function. FACT.
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oldflyboy
I haven't followed this thread very closely, and I don't know which side of the fence you are. However I can absolutely assure you that there are very large numbers of pilots already working their notice at bacon, and almost certainly many more to follow.
Flybe are going to inherit a real mess.
I think it could take a while to recover!
I haven't followed this thread very closely, and I don't know which side of the fence you are. However I can absolutely assure you that there are very large numbers of pilots already working their notice at bacon, and almost certainly many more to follow.
Flybe are going to inherit a real mess.
I think it could take a while to recover!
Much of the bad feeling expressed on this site came about through the initial approaches from Flybe and the Cheesy- Wotsit roadshow and their “we are taking you over, you have to be thankful you have jobs, and you are not going to fly our shiny jets” sh1t stirring approach
. Two months have passed and having met some of the more senior Flybe managers now, I am reasonably convinced that they are starting to realise that there have to be changes in the way they do things and they have to take the work-force with them. Whether it was approaches made through Willie Walsh, or the general realisation that they have to get on with it now if they have half a chance of making it work I don’t know, but it would appear that there has been a sudden change in attitude. They do seem to be listening now even if it has taken a while. Hopefully, the two ex Bacon chumps have been put back in their boxes. 
One thing that Flybe does seem to have going for it is a very aggressive marketing strategy and a unlike BA, a good understanding of the regional business. Remember, David Evans used to put Fybe’s advertising down claiming that it was not the sort of thing that BA did and Bacon customers preferred the more up-market BA style trendy advertisements. 
Flybe appear to realise just how many fantastic opportunities were squandered by BA/ Bacon and can see a huge number of potential routes and base opportunities. They will move the 195’s to where they are needed and contrary to some of the original posts on here, they will not be keeping them down south for the exclusive use of the Exeter senior flying club. A number of other contractual issues appear to have been resolved and quite rightly, there has been a significant move away from the “get to the bottom, you are new and are on year zero” approach which prevailed earlier. Either they have started listening to the staff, or have been told to, but it certainly seems that they now have the chance to hit the ground running if they can just keep up this charm offensive and back it with action rather than the lies and waffle that we have been fed by the so called “Bacon “Leadership” Team for the last 5 years.
The next few months will be telling, but having met their senior people (above le fromage) I am certainly more inclined to give it a go.
The scheduling agreement will be the deciding factor. Address the disuption / lyfestyle issues and we could be on to a winner.
. Two months have passed and having met some of the more senior Flybe managers now, I am reasonably convinced that they are starting to realise that there have to be changes in the way they do things and they have to take the work-force with them. Whether it was approaches made through Willie Walsh, or the general realisation that they have to get on with it now if they have half a chance of making it work I don’t know, but it would appear that there has been a sudden change in attitude. They do seem to be listening now even if it has taken a while. Hopefully, the two ex Bacon chumps have been put back in their boxes. One thing that Flybe does seem to have going for it is a very aggressive marketing strategy and a unlike BA, a good understanding of the regional business. Remember, David Evans used to put Fybe’s advertising down claiming that it was not the sort of thing that BA did and Bacon customers preferred the more up-market BA style trendy advertisements.
Flybe appear to realise just how many fantastic opportunities were squandered by BA/ Bacon and can see a huge number of potential routes and base opportunities. They will move the 195’s to where they are needed and contrary to some of the original posts on here, they will not be keeping them down south for the exclusive use of the Exeter senior flying club.
A number of other contractual issues appear to have been resolved and quite rightly, there has been a significant move away from the “get to the bottom, you are new and are on year zero” approach which prevailed earlier. Either they have started listening to the staff, or have been told to, but it certainly seems that they now have the chance to hit the ground running if they can just keep up this charm offensive and back it with action rather than the lies and waffle that we have been fed by the so called “Bacon “Leadership” Team for the last 5 years. The next few months will be telling, but having met their senior people (above le fromage) I am certainly more inclined to give it a go.
The scheduling agreement will be the deciding factor. Address the disuption / lyfestyle issues and we could be on to a winner.
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Tandemrotor & Skyayn Vannin,
It's not a question of sides, it's simply wanting to clarify what is happening. Personally I think the numbers of crew leaving BACON are very worrying for all concerned, my post was not meant to imply that posters here were telling porkies, rather that the little piglets seem to be emerging from the management side.
I have been in the regions for a long time and have chosen to tie my colours to the future with BACON/FLYBE, but totally respect others who have left or propose to do so. The very sad thing is how badly the whole thing has been managed, not least the appalling way others who do not have a choice of a job in FlyBe are being treated, as my other posts have indicated.i.e. customer services, scheduling,ramp services,operations etc.
I frankly look forward to working with another company that (hopefully or am I being naive?) is not always on the back foot because the folk at the top could not manage their way out of a wet paper bag.
Whatever the maths, BA do not want an unprofitable business. The debate in the future surely must be around why so much incompetance was allowed to continue for so many years. It is criminal that BA can take 4 airlines(BA Regional, BRAL, Brymon & Manx) and turn these profitable, albeit not hugely so, businesses around to make major losses in so short a time.
Has anyone attended the Strong/Witts roadshow in Manch today and asked the question about Pilot numbers? If so, what was the response?
It's not a question of sides, it's simply wanting to clarify what is happening. Personally I think the numbers of crew leaving BACON are very worrying for all concerned, my post was not meant to imply that posters here were telling porkies, rather that the little piglets seem to be emerging from the management side.
I have been in the regions for a long time and have chosen to tie my colours to the future with BACON/FLYBE, but totally respect others who have left or propose to do so. The very sad thing is how badly the whole thing has been managed, not least the appalling way others who do not have a choice of a job in FlyBe are being treated, as my other posts have indicated.i.e. customer services, scheduling,ramp services,operations etc.
I frankly look forward to working with another company that (hopefully or am I being naive?) is not always on the back foot because the folk at the top could not manage their way out of a wet paper bag.
Whatever the maths, BA do not want an unprofitable business. The debate in the future surely must be around why so much incompetance was allowed to continue for so many years. It is criminal that BA can take 4 airlines(BA Regional, BRAL, Brymon & Manx) and turn these profitable, albeit not hugely so, businesses around to make major losses in so short a time.
Has anyone attended the Strong/Witts roadshow in Manch today and asked the question about Pilot numbers? If so, what was the response?
Last edited by oldflyboy; 13th Feb 2007 at 13:43.
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Fromage and the rest of the dunces.....
The most criminal thing of all is the BA culture that actually REWARDED the likes of De La Flop!!! It was apparent to his successors that achievement and success, profitability and efficiency were not important, only brown-nosing, posturing, and continually writing OMANs, FOBS, FABS, and most of all -FIBS!!!
To have then stuffed management appointments with the likes of Phelan, Hutchings, Deacon, Devereux etc was remarkable, albeit not as remarkable as the appointment of Witts and Cheese - the latter was no more than a lapdog, and the former the last huge mistake in a long line coming from Rob Hearn in his days as Terry's lapdog.
Believe me, I wish you all well, but I have to say that EZY has been a breath of fresh air, not to mention a seriously worthwhile type rating and salary! As someone mentioned earlier, it was only ever the pension that made us all hang around - in many respects I wish they'd junked it five years ago, that would be around another 100K in my pocket by now!
It was apparent to his successors that achievement and success, profitability and efficiency were not important, only brown-nosing, posturing, and continually writing OMANs, FOBS, FABS, and most of all -FIBS!!!To have then stuffed management appointments with the likes of Phelan, Hutchings, Deacon, Devereux etc was remarkable, albeit not as remarkable as the appointment of Witts and Cheese - the latter was no more than a lapdog, and the former the last huge mistake in a long line coming from Rob Hearn in his days as Terry's lapdog.
Believe me, I wish you all well, but I have to say that EZY has been a breath of fresh air, not to mention a seriously worthwhile type rating and salary! As someone mentioned earlier, it was only ever the pension that made us all hang around - in many respects I wish they'd junked it five years ago, that would be around another 100K in my pocket by now!
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The total number of BACON pilots working their notice was 138 as of yesterday (12th Feb). Today two captains and two FOs handed in their notice at one base alone!
I only know of about 5 pilots at my base who are definitely planning to stay and some of those are beginning to look elsewhere. Do Flybe know that this is happening? Have the management at BACON told them? It's a complete farce!
I only know of about 5 pilots at my base who are definitely planning to stay and some of those are beginning to look elsewhere. Do Flybe know that this is happening? Have the management at BACON told them? It's a complete farce!
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According to Mr S.Witts there are only 25 pilots leaving.
As heard by me from him.
So either he's:
1. poorly informed.
2. a fibber.
or,
3. A lot of posters on here are either 1 or 2 above.
As heard by me from him.
So either he's:
1. poorly informed.
2. a fibber.
or,
3. A lot of posters on here are either 1 or 2 above.
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expedite08
Truth is you're right. Flybe is perfect for somebody starting on the ladder. Trouble is once you get some jet experience under your belt, and especially if you ever work to a scheduling agreement, you'll probably start thinking along the same lines as the people currently voting with their feet.
Enjoy.
Truth is you're right. Flybe is perfect for somebody starting on the ladder. Trouble is once you get some jet experience under your belt, and especially if you ever work to a scheduling agreement, you'll probably start thinking along the same lines as the people currently voting with their feet.
Enjoy.
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Only 25 pilots leaving! Poor Mr F. Witt must mean only 25 pilots from the 146 fleet alone! Or perhaps he's been listening to the crap spouted by Deverall and Mini me. Or maybe it was the other buffoon recently returned to the fold, The Monkey.