GB Airways - Time to Captain
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Wow some heated replies.
The original thread seems to have been lost along the way and turned into a debate about this companies working conditions.
It always astounds me that when people state what they believe to be fact, then find themselves accuse of being whiners by those that hold different views and in some cases will not be affected by what are considered genuine facts.
Why in this industry does everyone have to come down to the lowest T’s& G’s? If we all stuck together maybe life could get a little better all round.
The original thread seems to have been lost along the way and turned into a debate about this companies working conditions.
It always astounds me that when people state what they believe to be fact, then find themselves accuse of being whiners by those that hold different views and in some cases will not be affected by what are considered genuine facts.
Why in this industry does everyone have to come down to the lowest T’s& G’s? If we all stuck together maybe life could get a little better all round.
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Pirsig, i am not at all saying that we should accept things as they are or leave the company at all. And i also agree that being based in MAN does indeed shelter us from some of the concerns that you guys have.
Firstly i'm not saying that the proposed move to Jubilee house is a non-event, far from it, i know it will effect you guys and girls enormously. However you can't disaggree that the hive is overcrowded, and as such something needs to be done about it. In my opinion a move for the flight/cabin crew to a new location, (ie. Jubilee house), closer to the a/c is more sensible than sticking the commercial and finance people there.
No your right, I haven't had much experience working out of LGW, and thats something i have brought up on more than one occasion, (because we do feel rather isolated), however on the rare occasion i have been there, trying to get through security in one of the transits has been a nightmare. Surely being based somewhere that you've already had to go airside to get into,(again ie. Jubilee House), therefore cutting that hassle out from the journey to the aircraft has to be an impovement. Don't get me wrong, having the crew report at the Beehive is a fantasic perk and the parking just makes that better, but the truth is, it can't go on forever. Atleast if you move soon you'll get a decent office, and not some hole which is still a 10 minute bus ride from security.
"and I joined a Scheduled BA Franchise airline"
Yes that's true but with the current atmosphere between us and BA, and the rumours that abound that situation, are we going to be for much longer? If we go it alone then what do you think we'll be, and i get the feeling thats why Connect, (shortly to be defunct), was brought into MAN and the other outstations. BOB is what we'll do if we take the leap as GB.
You talk about your nice little run of IBZ, PFO, IBZ, i agree that can't be too nice, however, we don't have any short flights like IBZ's up here and many many times in the past 18 months have I had night TFS, night TFS, night TFS, or maybe PFO, night TFS, night PFO. Or even the really late PFO, getting back at 5.30 in the morning, twice a month. So to say we don't do that sort of flying isn't exactly fair.
Your dead right, however, correct me if i'm wrong, were we not making a profit up until a few years ago. And it doesn't help when your consistantly paying over the odds for a Franchise agreement that rarely keeps up its end of the the bargain. Hence the shift in a/c loading recently, and moving to a cheaper, (and in many cases better, or atleast on the spares front), engineering provider. I'm sure most people would see that as progress. Oh and consistently losing money doesn't necassarily mean one thing, just look at a certain charter company who were really in the proverbial pooh a couple of years ago. (Different circumstances i know but just goes to prove you never really know what can happen, they all thought there was one outcome for that particular company.)
Very true, if i was comparing GB to being a cruise relief pilot for International Afghan Air Routes, which i'm not, (do they even exist, or is it a VA you're the CEO of?). I agree for a long time GB was the best UK shorthaul airline to work for, however times change and as a result of that we have to loose some of those privileges we have to keep the company going. I'm not saying we should roll over and do whatever the company wants with no recompence, far from it, conditions have to be protected, (to a reasonable extent), but would it really be better if we carried on, without anything being done until one day when suddenly, the Godfathers go, we've run out of money, and we're cutting our losses and closing the airline. Personally, i'd rather do something about it sooner rather than later.
I do agree with you completely that there is a need to discuss conditions within the work place, and I am in no way taking a military attitude and saying we should do whatever the company wants us to. T+C's are there for a reason, but they have to be protected to a reasonable extent. But just remember that if you push it too hard, then there may not be a companies T+C's there for you to protect. Give and Take is the answer, not fighting to the death... That only results in one thing, Death, and thats not what anyone wants.
I'm totally commited to GB and i'm not (actively or not), looking to move anywhere else. We have the opportunity to be a great independent carrier, (if thats what happens), but in my opinion bitching about who you work for does nothing to help their cause. GB has a fantastic bunch of people working within its ranks, and i agree with what has been said before, 99.9% of the crew you work with will be a great laugh and will make a long day pass like its been a AGP, as it has today, (not an AGP, far from it infact).
Also I would completely support you in a vote about JH, (depending on the terms being offered). However as I've said before, in situations such as this, all it takes is a bit of give and take from both sides to come out with an amicable agreement, that suits the companies needs to cut costs and the workforces need to protect their conditions.
Oh and Shaftspeare, you say,
I think you might find quite a bit of opposition to that in mainline, as most wouldn't want their chance of command/74/777 being taken away from them by GB flightdeck. If they bought us then i think you'd find we'd be at the bottom of the seniority list, with a massive number of 320 rated pilots ahead of us, (you're looking at 12 years to command i believe).
I hope nobody will take this as an attack on their viewpoint or position on many of these issues. I'm simply putting across my point of view, having been through the situation of compulsary redundancy in a previous company, (which isn't pleasant). After all it is Pprune, and we're free to say what we want.
In my opinion GB is a great company, and yes its having its troubles, but atleast its actively trying to sort them out rather than sitting back and let the 'inevitable happen'.
Sorry for the really long post!!
Firstly i'm not saying that the proposed move to Jubilee house is a non-event, far from it, i know it will effect you guys and girls enormously. However you can't disaggree that the hive is overcrowded, and as such something needs to be done about it. In my opinion a move for the flight/cabin crew to a new location, (ie. Jubilee house), closer to the a/c is more sensible than sticking the commercial and finance people there.
No your right, I haven't had much experience working out of LGW, and thats something i have brought up on more than one occasion, (because we do feel rather isolated), however on the rare occasion i have been there, trying to get through security in one of the transits has been a nightmare. Surely being based somewhere that you've already had to go airside to get into,(again ie. Jubilee House), therefore cutting that hassle out from the journey to the aircraft has to be an impovement. Don't get me wrong, having the crew report at the Beehive is a fantasic perk and the parking just makes that better, but the truth is, it can't go on forever. Atleast if you move soon you'll get a decent office, and not some hole which is still a 10 minute bus ride from security.
"and I joined a Scheduled BA Franchise airline"
Yes that's true but with the current atmosphere between us and BA, and the rumours that abound that situation, are we going to be for much longer? If we go it alone then what do you think we'll be, and i get the feeling thats why Connect, (shortly to be defunct), was brought into MAN and the other outstations. BOB is what we'll do if we take the leap as GB.
You talk about your nice little run of IBZ, PFO, IBZ, i agree that can't be too nice, however, we don't have any short flights like IBZ's up here and many many times in the past 18 months have I had night TFS, night TFS, night TFS, or maybe PFO, night TFS, night PFO. Or even the really late PFO, getting back at 5.30 in the morning, twice a month. So to say we don't do that sort of flying isn't exactly fair.
I do agree with you completely that there is a need to discuss conditions within the work place, and I am in no way taking a military attitude and saying we should do whatever the company wants us to. T+C's are there for a reason, but they have to be protected to a reasonable extent. But just remember that if you push it too hard, then there may not be a companies T+C's there for you to protect. Give and Take is the answer, not fighting to the death... That only results in one thing, Death, and thats not what anyone wants.
I'm totally commited to GB and i'm not (actively or not), looking to move anywhere else. We have the opportunity to be a great independent carrier, (if thats what happens), but in my opinion bitching about who you work for does nothing to help their cause. GB has a fantastic bunch of people working within its ranks, and i agree with what has been said before, 99.9% of the crew you work with will be a great laugh and will make a long day pass like its been a AGP, as it has today, (not an AGP, far from it infact).
Also I would completely support you in a vote about JH, (depending on the terms being offered). However as I've said before, in situations such as this, all it takes is a bit of give and take from both sides to come out with an amicable agreement, that suits the companies needs to cut costs and the workforces need to protect their conditions.
Oh and Shaftspeare, you say,
I hope nobody will take this as an attack on their viewpoint or position on many of these issues. I'm simply putting across my point of view, having been through the situation of compulsary redundancy in a previous company, (which isn't pleasant). After all it is Pprune, and we're free to say what we want.
In my opinion GB is a great company, and yes its having its troubles, but atleast its actively trying to sort them out rather than sitting back and let the 'inevitable happen'.
Sorry for the really long post!!
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Will only make two points with reference to Maz's posts, it would appear that my peers are more than up to the task of communicating the main other points to the masses..........
Firstly with regards to Beehive overcrowding - there has never been a problem, outwith Monday to Friday 9-5 report times, finding a space to leave your car - the Beehive parking is far "closer" to the a/c than any of the BAA alternatives, worst case from parking your car you will be at the a/c STD-30, even with early morning crowding at Queens Gate - will be far more difficult to get an entire crew to 113 at 0500 from JH..........
I agree it would be quite frankly ludicrous to put "Commercial and Financial People" in Jubilee house - but only because the positions that they fill can be fulfilled in any location whatsoever, be it downtown Crawley or Istanbul. If JH is the cheapest real estate that the company can find in the area then I suggest each and every reader buys property in either Crawley or Horley.
Secondly, this "promised land" of BA buying us out and amalgamating us into their seniority system is complete and utter nonsense. A straw poll of every BA pilot on Prune just now would without a shadow of a doubt indicate that each and every BA mainline pilot will never let it happen - there’s more chance of Concorde flying again than GB Pilots being welcomed into the fold.
If Mr Walsh and his Board at BA decree that the franchise shall be rescinded sooner than the allotted time then I fear GB Airways as it stands shall last no longer than the pre-bookings that BA allow us to honour.
Just as an end note - the notion that we could "become a great independant carrier" is so reliant on so many variables - primarily BA allowing us and EJ/RYR not crushing us I feel it is not so much clutching at straws, more hoping for a miracle.
Firstly with regards to Beehive overcrowding - there has never been a problem, outwith Monday to Friday 9-5 report times, finding a space to leave your car - the Beehive parking is far "closer" to the a/c than any of the BAA alternatives, worst case from parking your car you will be at the a/c STD-30, even with early morning crowding at Queens Gate - will be far more difficult to get an entire crew to 113 at 0500 from JH..........
I agree it would be quite frankly ludicrous to put "Commercial and Financial People" in Jubilee house - but only because the positions that they fill can be fulfilled in any location whatsoever, be it downtown Crawley or Istanbul. If JH is the cheapest real estate that the company can find in the area then I suggest each and every reader buys property in either Crawley or Horley.
Secondly, this "promised land" of BA buying us out and amalgamating us into their seniority system is complete and utter nonsense. A straw poll of every BA pilot on Prune just now would without a shadow of a doubt indicate that each and every BA mainline pilot will never let it happen - there’s more chance of Concorde flying again than GB Pilots being welcomed into the fold.
If Mr Walsh and his Board at BA decree that the franchise shall be rescinded sooner than the allotted time then I fear GB Airways as it stands shall last no longer than the pre-bookings that BA allow us to honour.
Just as an end note - the notion that we could "become a great independant carrier" is so reliant on so many variables - primarily BA allowing us and EJ/RYR not crushing us I feel it is not so much clutching at straws, more hoping for a miracle.
Last edited by qualitycontrol; 21st Nov 2006 at 00:52. Reason: reasoning
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qualitycontrol: well said.
Maz11: Remember this is a once great airline going down the pan. Every aspect of the company has deteriorated rapidly in the last couple of years. Some of us remember the early pre-franchise days. Life was difficult commercially (but great fun) with just Gibraltar, Tangiers, Funchal and Casablanca as our destinations. If you think that going it alone as a scheduled carrier is the future, forget it. It was hard enough 1989-1994, and that was well before easyJet (which GB flew the first 2 aircraft for!!) and Ryanair came on the scene. GB did not make money until the Franchise came along. No Franchise........Maz11 Please tell us what your plan is for expansion, and how you see the next 5 years for GB.
Maz11: Remember this is a once great airline going down the pan. Every aspect of the company has deteriorated rapidly in the last couple of years. Some of us remember the early pre-franchise days. Life was difficult commercially (but great fun) with just Gibraltar, Tangiers, Funchal and Casablanca as our destinations. If you think that going it alone as a scheduled carrier is the future, forget it. It was hard enough 1989-1994, and that was well before easyJet (which GB flew the first 2 aircraft for!!) and Ryanair came on the scene. GB did not make money until the Franchise came along. No Franchise........Maz11 Please tell us what your plan is for expansion, and how you see the next 5 years for GB.
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“Quote heebeegb”
"Spot on!!!! If it's that bad, there's always the door. It amazes me that those who've been here 5 minutes are the first to moan."
Think you will find that the more factual comments of this post are from those of us who have been here for 10+ years!
“Quote JetA1”
"It is interesting that there are plenty wingeing here but the fact that no-one is leaving or working their notice at this time there are a few eternal moaners at GB...."
Oh, really, where have you been lately? Or have you missed the no. of trainers, capts & F/Os who have gone or in the process!?
“Quote Maz11”
"Good God you lot don't half whinge. I have to agree with what was said a couple of posts ago, If its that bad then you know where the door is."
Well, nice to see you have retracted your original drivel!
As "The Major" said, we have watched the ship start to go down. Management come & go with monotonous regularity (should give you some idea of their competence) Yet we are all here for the long haul (or were!) We have a vested interest in the success of the outfit & really want it to florish.
Yet we have seen time after time, stupid, ill thought out, knee jerk plans which have made things worse rather than better!
(How about the LGW, OPO (LIS) LGW, where the OPO business pax where not informed of the "LIS" bit
So now TAP has that premium traffic instead. Ditto the Canaries round robins (pax again unaware) Need I go on?)
Time to vote with ones' feet, well, yes. TTFN.
"Spot on!!!! If it's that bad, there's always the door. It amazes me that those who've been here 5 minutes are the first to moan."
Think you will find that the more factual comments of this post are from those of us who have been here for 10+ years!
“Quote JetA1”
"It is interesting that there are plenty wingeing here but the fact that no-one is leaving or working their notice at this time there are a few eternal moaners at GB...."
Oh, really, where have you been lately? Or have you missed the no. of trainers, capts & F/Os who have gone or in the process!?
“Quote Maz11”
"Good God you lot don't half whinge. I have to agree with what was said a couple of posts ago, If its that bad then you know where the door is."
Well, nice to see you have retracted your original drivel!
As "The Major" said, we have watched the ship start to go down. Management come & go with monotonous regularity (should give you some idea of their competence) Yet we are all here for the long haul (or were!) We have a vested interest in the success of the outfit & really want it to florish.
Yet we have seen time after time, stupid, ill thought out, knee jerk plans which have made things worse rather than better!
(How about the LGW, OPO (LIS) LGW, where the OPO business pax where not informed of the "LIS" bit
So now TAP has that premium traffic instead. Ditto the Canaries round robins (pax again unaware) Need I go on?) Time to vote with ones' feet, well, yes. TTFN.
Last edited by Oxidant; 21st Nov 2006 at 11:55.
I was Cherished once.
R3Hard.
"Personally i think that all of you who obviously work for GB should cherish your jobs and not discuss these issues in public, this, in my opinion, is not what PPRUNE is for.
Get on to your union site/private forum (if you have one) as threads like this serve only to undermine your current positions - whoever you are"
I think you'll find a question was asked....or did you not bother to read the entire thread....opinions expressed are of a personal nature , just like yours.
"Personally i think that all of you who obviously work for GB should cherish your jobs and not discuss these issues in public, this, in my opinion, is not what PPRUNE is for.
Get on to your union site/private forum (if you have one) as threads like this serve only to undermine your current positions - whoever you are"
I think you'll find a question was asked....or did you not bother to read the entire thread....opinions expressed are of a personal nature , just like yours.
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R3Hard,
Noone likes to air dirty laundry in public, however, due to the rather delicate nature of some of the topics that have arisen and the fact that GB is still a very small company where outspoken opinions are quickly reigned in by the powers that be, sometimes the Balpa forum is not an ideal facility to vent ones spleen.
The responses here illustrate the sad fact that GB Airways is not the happy ship it once was. This alone shows to me that almost every contributor to this topic who is actually employed by GB do cherish their jobs - that's why such a passionate reaction has occured.
Noone likes to air dirty laundry in public, however, due to the rather delicate nature of some of the topics that have arisen and the fact that GB is still a very small company where outspoken opinions are quickly reigned in by the powers that be, sometimes the Balpa forum is not an ideal facility to vent ones spleen.
The responses here illustrate the sad fact that GB Airways is not the happy ship it once was. This alone shows to me that almost every contributor to this topic who is actually employed by GB do cherish their jobs - that's why such a passionate reaction has occured.
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R3Hard,
Noone likes to air dirty laundry in public, however, due to the rather delicate nature of some of the topics that have arisen and the fact that GB is still a very small company where outspoken opinions are quickly reigned in by the powers that be, sometimes the Balpa forum is not an ideal facility to vent ones spleen.
The responses here illustrate the sad fact that GB Airways is not the happy ship it once was. This alone shows to me that almost every contributor to this topic who is actually employed by GB do cherish their jobs - that's why such a passionate reaction has occured.
Noone likes to air dirty laundry in public, however, due to the rather delicate nature of some of the topics that have arisen and the fact that GB is still a very small company where outspoken opinions are quickly reigned in by the powers that be, sometimes the Balpa forum is not an ideal facility to vent ones spleen.
The responses here illustrate the sad fact that GB Airways is not the happy ship it once was. This alone shows to me that almost every contributor to this topic who is actually employed by GB do cherish their jobs - that's why such a passionate reaction has occured.
Amen to that!
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R3Hard,
I have plenty of faith in our union, especially since the membership percentage has increased so markedly since all these problems arose. I also don't know of a single member of flight deck not voting in favour of further action with regards this blundered Jubilee House motion.
No one expects Pprune of all places to fight our corner for us, it is however a safer outlet to state some of views felt than the company BALPA forum. Our company council seem to be doing an excellent job of progressing this matter and conveying our practically unified disagreement with what the management propose to do. (Jubilee house was a done deal when we were told about it and 'invited' to add our comments/give our approval!).
So with BALPA membership apparently now topping 90% I think we have (if we hadn't already), joined the union and are actively supporting its campaign for improved T's & C's. My ballot was ticked and off to BALPA HQ by return of post! Many of my colleagues are following this thread with interest with the general opinion that it makes for some of the most interesting reading on pprune in a very long time.
You do take an unusually close interest in the affairs of a company you don't work for.....
I have plenty of faith in our union, especially since the membership percentage has increased so markedly since all these problems arose. I also don't know of a single member of flight deck not voting in favour of further action with regards this blundered Jubilee House motion.
No one expects Pprune of all places to fight our corner for us, it is however a safer outlet to state some of views felt than the company BALPA forum. Our company council seem to be doing an excellent job of progressing this matter and conveying our practically unified disagreement with what the management propose to do. (Jubilee house was a done deal when we were told about it and 'invited' to add our comments/give our approval!).
So with BALPA membership apparently now topping 90% I think we have (if we hadn't already), joined the union and are actively supporting its campaign for improved T's & C's. My ballot was ticked and off to BALPA HQ by return of post! Many of my colleagues are following this thread with interest with the general opinion that it makes for some of the most interesting reading on pprune in a very long time.
You do take an unusually close interest in the affairs of a company you don't work for.....
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:)
Left GB several months ago after over 3 years with them. I saw many changes, and just couldn't cope with them anymore. I understand that leaving ones job is a big step and can be stressful at times, but I must say that leaving the Beehive has been one of my best moves!
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Seymour
Perhaps you recently failed a check? No, you don't dissapoint me, just frustrating to know that people like you go about character assassination to disguise your own failings. Maybe it's time to leave..............
Perhaps you recently failed a check? No, you don't dissapoint me, just frustrating to know that people like you go about character assassination to disguise your own failings. Maybe it's time to leave..............
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Time to command - GB
SEYMOUR FANNY
Being bitter and twisted, and all because of your own ability is not constructive those who enjoy what they are doing at GB. For the sake of others, practise what you preach and get a job somewhere else.
Each entry you make continues to show the problems you have with yourself. I, and others, continue to laugh at your comments, it all just shows how far aways from reality you really are.
Being bitter and twisted, and all because of your own ability is not constructive those who enjoy what they are doing at GB. For the sake of others, practise what you preach and get a job somewhere else.
Each entry you make continues to show the problems you have with yourself. I, and others, continue to laugh at your comments, it all just shows how far aways from reality you really are.
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Oh dear Seyless fanny....looks like you have put your hoof in it big time.....me thinks your days are numbered...off you go to orange land!!.......being bitter and twisted aint going to help......
aaah hello Rafat. You really should be tucked up in bed in the rainy north rather than posting at 0246....
Missing the 400? No. The endless 6 sector days and monotony of SOU? No.
The dead mans shoes for jet command in JER? No. The below standard pay scales? No.
No, i guess then.
Any luck in the corporate sector?
Missing the 400? No. The endless 6 sector days and monotony of SOU? No.
The dead mans shoes for jet command in JER? No. The below standard pay scales? No.
No, i guess then.
Any luck in the corporate sector?