GB Airways - Time to Captain
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GB Airways - Time to Captain
Trying to find out the average time to Captain after joining GB airways as a F/O for now and the next couple of years. Miltary fast jet background for my sins. Any other recent T & C info would be welcome as I've seen unfavourable info so far! Thanks.
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From recent experience, I would say you stand a good chance of a fast command with your 'particular' background. Recently ex-RAF have received promotion to Captain within 6 months of joining the company.
It will all depend on the effects of the current course of action being steered by the management and how many pilots are really lost through being unprepared to tolerate the relentless degradation to their lifestyles. I have been at GB a while now and it is fair to say it has changed beyond all recognition in the past few years and in no way for the better in any respect. At GB it used to be all about the lifestyle, with middle of the road remuneration as the acceptable compromise. Now we remain lower league in terms of pay and bottom of the table in regards to lifestyle and Terms & Conditions:
Based on the above, and no doubt many other facets of life at GB that I have probably neglected to mention here, my only advice during these current times of buoyant pilot employment prospects would be to join anyone of the other larger, better paying, better treating outfits that also have the added benefit of some degree of job security in a volatile industry. Remember GB is very much one family’s private train set to do with as it pleases.
With seemingly all ties to BA now being systematically cut (with both engineering and ground handling being outsourced to other companies as of next week), the vague hope of maybe someday being absorbed are now fading fast - despite the best wishes of the piloting fraternity at BA who of course would love nothing more than to see the girls and boys of GB amalgamated into their seniority list!
So as not to ignore the positive aspects it must stated that the Staff Travel Benefits are excellent. Whether or not it would be sensible to join an airline and base a serious career decision upon them is something you must ask yourself......
I hope this information is of some help to you, good luck with your decision!
It will all depend on the effects of the current course of action being steered by the management and how many pilots are really lost through being unprepared to tolerate the relentless degradation to their lifestyles. I have been at GB a while now and it is fair to say it has changed beyond all recognition in the past few years and in no way for the better in any respect. At GB it used to be all about the lifestyle, with middle of the road remuneration as the acceptable compromise. Now we remain lower league in terms of pay and bottom of the table in regards to lifestyle and Terms & Conditions:
- Quite possibly the worst rostering in the business with rosters being unsympathetically and inflexibly produced.
- Obscure split duties of dubious legality
- Repetitive deep night flights
- Very unsociable hours (lates finishing at 0300L, earlies starting 0430L usually just after a late!!)
- Bussed around the country in a van (LHR, EMA and BRS) after a duty, charter style but without the charter money or conditions.
- 14 1/2hr there and back duty days to remote and exotic Red Sea destinations (think UN mine clearing operations in AQJ!)
- Food unfit for human consumption
- Lowest pay of any UK Airbus operator (don’t take that much notice of the gross figures, you will receive virtually no allowances & so after tax will find yourself coming up short compared to colleagues in other airlines doing virtually the same job only with more sensible working hours)
- Profit related bonus a thing of the past
- Uncertain future, BA franchise in question, competition with easyJet on all but our most extreme routes.
- The taking on of contract F/O’s this year to bridge crewing gaps that should have been foreseen and planned in advance for.
- Damp leasing Excel 737 all next summer (effect on commands, product delivery?)
- Enforced move to Jubilee House as of March next year for flight deck, with parking in Z Overflow adding an extra hour a day for no compensation. You will now find yourself either waiting to go to work or waiting to return to your car in the pouring rain and wind at 0300.
Based on the above, and no doubt many other facets of life at GB that I have probably neglected to mention here, my only advice during these current times of buoyant pilot employment prospects would be to join anyone of the other larger, better paying, better treating outfits that also have the added benefit of some degree of job security in a volatile industry. Remember GB is very much one family’s private train set to do with as it pleases.
With seemingly all ties to BA now being systematically cut (with both engineering and ground handling being outsourced to other companies as of next week), the vague hope of maybe someday being absorbed are now fading fast - despite the best wishes of the piloting fraternity at BA who of course would love nothing more than to see the girls and boys of GB amalgamated into their seniority list!
So as not to ignore the positive aspects it must stated that the Staff Travel Benefits are excellent. Whether or not it would be sensible to join an airline and base a serious career decision upon them is something you must ask yourself......
I hope this information is of some help to you, good luck with your decision!
interesting post shaftspeare.... well on the mark too.
I notice we're also ditching CIRRUS and NUBRIEF - further distancing ourselves from BA?
WW was rumoured to have said we wouldn't be a franchise operator next year, KH has said there are many changes ahead.....
Gonna be an interesting time round the Beehive over the next 18-24 months!
(ps would write more but still knackered from my red sea there and back!!)
BPM
I notice we're also ditching CIRRUS and NUBRIEF - further distancing ourselves from BA?
WW was rumoured to have said we wouldn't be a franchise operator next year, KH has said there are many changes ahead.....
Gonna be an interesting time round the Beehive over the next 18-24 months!
(ps would write more but still knackered from my red sea there and back!!)
BPM
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Guys - that's very good info - although not the best of news on the GB front! Any plans by the management to improve some of those concerns (especially the roster) or is that wishful thinking? Allowances I didn't really consider - what is the average monthly pay of a F/O? I'm obviously looking at other A320 operators and GB was towards the top!
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Time to command used to be approx 2 to 3 years but that could possibly all change from now on. As mentioned the wet lease will delay promotions as will the over 60s now being allowed to stay on.
There is only one pilot thats been promoted in 6 months and he had over K6 hours and was a Captain in his previous airline. He was also prepared to go to MAN.
On the flip side you maybe lucky as people are likely to leave in droves next year. Keep your nose clean and don't fall foul of Jekyll and Hyde (TG & DW) and the rest of the corrupt incestuous training dept and you should be OK.
As Shaftspeare said there are much better and more secure options out there than GB.
There is only one pilot thats been promoted in 6 months and he had over K6 hours and was a Captain in his previous airline. He was also prepared to go to MAN.
On the flip side you maybe lucky as people are likely to leave in droves next year. Keep your nose clean and don't fall foul of Jekyll and Hyde (TG & DW) and the rest of the corrupt incestuous training dept and you should be OK.
As Shaftspeare said there are much better and more secure options out there than GB.
Keep your nose clean and don't fall foul of Jekyll and Hyde (TG & DW) and the rest of the corrupt incestuous training dept and you should be OK.
Interesting comment, care to expand it a little.
Interesting comment, care to expand it a little.
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Both Shaftspeare & SF have hit the nail on the head.
What was once one of the best places in aviation is now the worst.
Since Jonny Vegas, BG,BW,TG & DW (& others) have risen to power the airline has sunk with equal rapidity.
I would disagree with Shaftspeare on the staff travel front though. If you are single then it is OK (i.e the BA side)
However as a Capt with kids you find that your "Annual free firm" is useless as you can never be sure of;
1. Getting on the outbound &
2. Even if you do, they will not confirm you will get on the return!
What was once one of the best places in aviation is now the worst.
Since Jonny Vegas, BG,BW,TG & DW (& others) have risen to power the airline has sunk with equal rapidity.
I would disagree with Shaftspeare on the staff travel front though. If you are single then it is OK (i.e the BA side)
However as a Capt with kids you find that your "Annual free firm" is useless as you can never be sure of;
1. Getting on the outbound &
2. Even if you do, they will not confirm you will get on the return!
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"Keep your nose clean and don't fall foul of Jekyll and Hyde (TG & DW) and the rest of the corrupt incestuous training dept and you should be OK."
That sounds a bit worrying
Can you give any examples?
That sounds a bit worrying
Can you give any examples?
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Pretty good post Shaftspeare...but don't et all huffy about the move to JH just yet.....Balpa are on the case, and if we do move, we'll definitely get some good compensation!!
Does sound like a very down post tho, so I'll put in some good points:
1)Fantastic crew. Obviously the odd tw*t, which makes for a very long day, but every airline has those. The crew are good fun, very sociable, and can make a long day go very quickly.
2)Good route structure. As we fly to some of the most challenging airfields, it's noted highly by other airlines when you eventually apply elsewhere. Makes a ncie change as well to to somewhere chellenging instead of the normal ILS approach...
3)Obscure split duties......yes, there is ONE. How often do you get it? Not that often I'm sure.
4)As for the rosters, once JH is sorted I understand it's next on Balpa's hit list. Won't be long, I'm sure, till we have a fixed roster pattern....
Basically, it has it's bad points, but then so does EVERY airline. It's a fun place to work, with 99% decent crew, friendly staff, and despit moaning about early starts I'm having a great time.
Average monthly salary?? Can be as low as £2800 in the winter when not working much, and as high as £3600 in the summer.
Does sound like a very down post tho, so I'll put in some good points:
1)Fantastic crew. Obviously the odd tw*t, which makes for a very long day, but every airline has those. The crew are good fun, very sociable, and can make a long day go very quickly.
2)Good route structure. As we fly to some of the most challenging airfields, it's noted highly by other airlines when you eventually apply elsewhere. Makes a ncie change as well to to somewhere chellenging instead of the normal ILS approach...
3)Obscure split duties......yes, there is ONE. How often do you get it? Not that often I'm sure.
4)As for the rosters, once JH is sorted I understand it's next on Balpa's hit list. Won't be long, I'm sure, till we have a fixed roster pattern....
Basically, it has it's bad points, but then so does EVERY airline. It's a fun place to work, with 99% decent crew, friendly staff, and despit moaning about early starts I'm having a great time.
Average monthly salary?? Can be as low as £2800 in the winter when not working much, and as high as £3600 in the summer.
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Great post Shaftspeare, just to add my two cents,
Bootylicious, I think your claim of taking home £3600 is a bit misleading, I have no doubt you did, but that will be with 3 overtime payments, something you may or may not want to do when you are rostered 90hrs a month during the summer. It is also well worth remembering that O/T payments are the exception rather than the rule at GB. The only reason there was so much this summer is because of the above mentioned crewing issues. As a year one F/O I took home a steady £2800 a month without contributing to my pension, so £2600ish is a realistic figure after pension contributions.
For info a year one captain takes circa £3800 after pension contributions.
On a seperate note I think your point 2 only serves to justify what Shaftspeare was saying about GB becoming a training airline.
Santan.
Bootylicious, I think your claim of taking home £3600 is a bit misleading, I have no doubt you did, but that will be with 3 overtime payments, something you may or may not want to do when you are rostered 90hrs a month during the summer. It is also well worth remembering that O/T payments are the exception rather than the rule at GB. The only reason there was so much this summer is because of the above mentioned crewing issues. As a year one F/O I took home a steady £2800 a month without contributing to my pension, so £2600ish is a realistic figure after pension contributions.
For info a year one captain takes circa £3800 after pension contributions.
On a seperate note I think your point 2 only serves to justify what Shaftspeare was saying about GB becoming a training airline.
Santan.
Last edited by santan17; 18th Nov 2006 at 16:09.
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If you are considering a 'career' with GB you shoud bear the following in mind:
It was once a proftable airline: Not any more.
It did well out of the BA Franchise: Not any more. Those once profitable routes now have intense low cost competition. And the BA franchise means GB are hamstrung when it comes to selecting new destinations. If it looks profitable BA will do it themselves.
The average sector length was 2 1/2 hours: Not any more.We are flying longer and further for less revenue.
Pay is the average of comparable airline, note Average but the working conditions were considerably better: Not any more.
Until 2 1/2 years ago there was at least some effort to treat people as human: Not any more, the worst aspects of comparable airlines lifestyles are now inflicted on the staff the rationale being this is what airline XYZ does so you have to do the same.
There is no chance of rostering/lifestyle issues improving in the near future as there has been a deliberate policy of deterioration in lifestyle over the last few years parralleling the deterioration in the companies financial position.
The flight ops managers are just looking after themselves now waiting for the inevitable. I have seen this scenario at several previous airlines just prior to the insolvencies.
It is difficult to see how this position can be reversed. The BA franchise is killing GB yet neither the owners or any of the ex-BA lackeys that have inflicted the damage have had the cojones to go it alone once again as GB or Gibraltar Airways. I suspect the new(ish) MD would like to but is told that the future is with the BA Franchise. In any case it is probably too late as easyJet would simply dump low fares on to any routes GB might try to compete on.
I would not consider a career here now. If you wish to have a career and start to acrue seniority definately look elsewhere. I know I am and I have been here a long time.
It was once a proftable airline: Not any more.
It did well out of the BA Franchise: Not any more. Those once profitable routes now have intense low cost competition. And the BA franchise means GB are hamstrung when it comes to selecting new destinations. If it looks profitable BA will do it themselves.
The average sector length was 2 1/2 hours: Not any more.We are flying longer and further for less revenue.
Pay is the average of comparable airline, note Average but the working conditions were considerably better: Not any more.
Until 2 1/2 years ago there was at least some effort to treat people as human: Not any more, the worst aspects of comparable airlines lifestyles are now inflicted on the staff the rationale being this is what airline XYZ does so you have to do the same.
There is no chance of rostering/lifestyle issues improving in the near future as there has been a deliberate policy of deterioration in lifestyle over the last few years parralleling the deterioration in the companies financial position.
The flight ops managers are just looking after themselves now waiting for the inevitable. I have seen this scenario at several previous airlines just prior to the insolvencies.
It is difficult to see how this position can be reversed. The BA franchise is killing GB yet neither the owners or any of the ex-BA lackeys that have inflicted the damage have had the cojones to go it alone once again as GB or Gibraltar Airways. I suspect the new(ish) MD would like to but is told that the future is with the BA Franchise. In any case it is probably too late as easyJet would simply dump low fares on to any routes GB might try to compete on.
I would not consider a career here now. If you wish to have a career and start to acrue seniority definately look elsewhere. I know I am and I have been here a long time.
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It is interesting that there are plenty wingeing here but the fact that no-one is leaving or working their notice at this time there are a few eternal moaners at GB....
And looking around elsewhere doesn't mean people are leaving....
And looking around elsewhere doesn't mean people are leaving....
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Jet A1 and heebeegb give me a break, wake up and smell the goldblend...people are actively looking around and l think there will be a few departing before next March to the land of Orange!!!!!!
"Any other recent T & C info would be welcome as I've seen unfavourable info so far"
Projecting GAP:
As you started the thread perhaps a comment from you maybe prudent, or do I detect a management input.
Projecting GAP:
As you started the thread perhaps a comment from you maybe prudent, or do I detect a management input.
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PM,
It's going to be a while before I reach management - haven't started in the airlines yet! Thread so far has had some really good info - just not what I expected. I have a clean slate and want to make a balanced decision when joining a company - I know it's not all rosy but it's rosier than the military at the moment!
Anyway to everyone who has put input - thanks very much, it really does help for guys like me (and others) - if there is more to add to the thread then all info is good info! Cheers.
PGAP.
It's going to be a while before I reach management - haven't started in the airlines yet! Thread so far has had some really good info - just not what I expected. I have a clean slate and want to make a balanced decision when joining a company - I know it's not all rosy but it's rosier than the military at the moment!
Anyway to everyone who has put input - thanks very much, it really does help for guys like me (and others) - if there is more to add to the thread then all info is good info! Cheers.
PGAP.
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Good God you lot don't half whinge. I have to agree with what was said a couple of posts ago, If its that bad then you know where the door is.
Having been at GB a couple of years i'd say its a fantastic place to work, or atleast it is up North, (maybe thats where you're all going wrong).
Having worked for a well known charter outfit before making the leap (or rather being pushed), let me tell you, charter Ts+Cs really are not that good. If people want to make the leap over to the land of Orange then good for them, but i've got a quite a few mates over there who say its the worst move they ever made. So the pay is better, and you get a stable roster pattern, but god do they get bored of 6 Belfasts in a day, 4 days on the trot.
People whine about the move to Jubilee house, and losing the cushy parking, but to be brutally honest that was bound to happen sooner or later as the company expanded. We have to take the bus in MAN, (as most outfits do at most airports in the UK), and yeah so it can be pretty packed when the morning shift is clocking on, but it really isn't that bad. Much better in my opinion than getting to the company car park with 5 minutes to spare before report and finding out there aren't any parking spaces left.
Also my opinion on a few of Shaftspeares remarks,
14 1/2hr there and back duty days to remote and exotic Red Sea destinations (think UN mine clearing operations in AQJ!)
Yes its mine clearing not laying and people want to go there. And a 14 1/2 hour duty, well thats nearly 20% of your work for the month done in one day, (ok 2).
Damp leasing Excel 737 all next summer (effect on commands, product delivery?)
So yes it may have an effect on commands but atleast we're still trying to expand. Or would it have been better for us to keep OA on for the next 6 years, (as thats what the leasing company was offering) and have to keep paying more and more for the upkeep of said a/c. The other option was to lose an aircraft until the new 21 arrives and have to effectively downsize the operation, when the key to making money is expansion, (just look at Easy for one).
Food unfit for human consumption
As it is at most outfits these days. Silver service for the F/D is a thing of the past, and again believe me its better than some, and atleast we get something.
Profit related bonus a thing of the past
Surely the answer is in that sentence, if we don't make a profit then you don't get a bonus, not really that difficult to comprehend. And hence why the company is trying to cut costs on other fronts to keep us in the black.
Very unsociable hours (lates finishing at 0300L, earlies starting 0430L usually just after a late!!)
Welcome to land of charters, which is effectively what we'll be if BA cut us loose. And if you think thats bad, well try going to work at 7 in the evening, doing two 5 hour sectors and getting back in your car at 8 the following morning, because thats what most charter outfits do.
Anyway, enough of a rant, as i said before, if you don't like it here then you know where the door is. At the end of the day GB is a company, and as such to survive has to make money. Contrary to many people's belief they aren't there to pay us and let us do what we want.
Seymour, yes only one got command in 6 months, but another wasn't far behind, 7 or 8 months i think, and its not that they were prepared to come to MAN, they were both based here as F/Os and still want to be. Must be the cushy number we have up here. Personally, i've worked my nuts off over the summer which is pretty obvious by my hours for the year, and i'm quite enjoying only working 5 days in Nov and 9 in Dec, give me the long flights anyday.
Don't get me wrong, there are many things which I would like improving in the T+Cs within the company, and i would never begrudge anyone who doesn't like it here and wants to move on, each to their own, but just remember, every company has its good and bad points.
Just one final thought for those thinking of moving on to pastures new,
Having been at GB a couple of years i'd say its a fantastic place to work, or atleast it is up North, (maybe thats where you're all going wrong).
Having worked for a well known charter outfit before making the leap (or rather being pushed), let me tell you, charter Ts+Cs really are not that good. If people want to make the leap over to the land of Orange then good for them, but i've got a quite a few mates over there who say its the worst move they ever made. So the pay is better, and you get a stable roster pattern, but god do they get bored of 6 Belfasts in a day, 4 days on the trot.
People whine about the move to Jubilee house, and losing the cushy parking, but to be brutally honest that was bound to happen sooner or later as the company expanded. We have to take the bus in MAN, (as most outfits do at most airports in the UK), and yeah so it can be pretty packed when the morning shift is clocking on, but it really isn't that bad. Much better in my opinion than getting to the company car park with 5 minutes to spare before report and finding out there aren't any parking spaces left.
Also my opinion on a few of Shaftspeares remarks,
14 1/2hr there and back duty days to remote and exotic Red Sea destinations (think UN mine clearing operations in AQJ!)
Yes its mine clearing not laying and people want to go there. And a 14 1/2 hour duty, well thats nearly 20% of your work for the month done in one day, (ok 2).
Damp leasing Excel 737 all next summer (effect on commands, product delivery?)
So yes it may have an effect on commands but atleast we're still trying to expand. Or would it have been better for us to keep OA on for the next 6 years, (as thats what the leasing company was offering) and have to keep paying more and more for the upkeep of said a/c. The other option was to lose an aircraft until the new 21 arrives and have to effectively downsize the operation, when the key to making money is expansion, (just look at Easy for one).
Food unfit for human consumption
As it is at most outfits these days. Silver service for the F/D is a thing of the past, and again believe me its better than some, and atleast we get something.
Profit related bonus a thing of the past
Surely the answer is in that sentence, if we don't make a profit then you don't get a bonus, not really that difficult to comprehend. And hence why the company is trying to cut costs on other fronts to keep us in the black.
Very unsociable hours (lates finishing at 0300L, earlies starting 0430L usually just after a late!!)
Welcome to land of charters, which is effectively what we'll be if BA cut us loose. And if you think thats bad, well try going to work at 7 in the evening, doing two 5 hour sectors and getting back in your car at 8 the following morning, because thats what most charter outfits do.
Anyway, enough of a rant, as i said before, if you don't like it here then you know where the door is. At the end of the day GB is a company, and as such to survive has to make money. Contrary to many people's belief they aren't there to pay us and let us do what we want.
Seymour, yes only one got command in 6 months, but another wasn't far behind, 7 or 8 months i think, and its not that they were prepared to come to MAN, they were both based here as F/Os and still want to be. Must be the cushy number we have up here. Personally, i've worked my nuts off over the summer which is pretty obvious by my hours for the year, and i'm quite enjoying only working 5 days in Nov and 9 in Dec, give me the long flights anyday.
Don't get me wrong, there are many things which I would like improving in the T+Cs within the company, and i would never begrudge anyone who doesn't like it here and wants to move on, each to their own, but just remember, every company has its good and bad points.
Just one final thought for those thinking of moving on to pastures new,
THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER
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Maz11, I find this attitude of accept things the way they are, do as your told else there's the door please leave very odd. Surely there is scope to discuss conditions within the work place without the somewhat military attitude of this is how it is now just get on with it?
You quite clearly state that you are in a somewhat different position to the majority of GB's flight deck in that you are based at Manchester. For those that don't know this is a very small base, with only 1 airframe and very limited route structure and consequently very pleasant working conditions - only 2 real check in times, 9-11 days flying a month and little chance of getting called off standby. As such I'm not convinced that you have any real frame of reference to comment on the grievances of the pilots living and operating 'down south'. As for Belfast 6 times a day 4 days in a row, that does seem dull, but so does constant rotations of MAN-TFS-MAN, MAN-PFO-MAN, but each to their own I suppose...
If Jubilee House is such a none event, and it absolutely isn't, then why are BALPA taking an indicative vote as to whether the workforce has the stomach for industrial action over the move?
I've been here over four years and have never found myself unable to park in the Bee Hive car park, especially since the office staff were asked to park in the overflow across the road, so I don't really understand your point here, but being MAN based this is the type of thing you wouldn't actually know.
As for the Red Sea Charters there's not much to say, other than that (Sharm & HRG aside), they are charters, and I joined a Scheduled BA Franchise airline.
Concerning 737 lease, I was told (from the horses mouth in flight ops), that the real reason behind the damp lease was that there is insufficient work next winter for another airframe so the most cost effective solution was to lease and return after the summer surge. This doesn't quite conform to your rather optimistic constant expansion ideal, nor is it exactly representative of the easyJet business model!
The food is worse elsewhere, so it’s absolutely fine and we shouldn't attempt to improve things. Again that strange 'just accept it' attitude. It's also not actually true if you compare to other operators such as BA, Virgin, Thomson, Thomas Cook etc (remember we are still a BA franchise!)
As you quite rightly point out, profit related pay is intrinsically linked to a company’s profit. No profit, no bonus. More importantly however, a company consistently failing to make a profit leads where......not really that difficult to comprehend.
No need to welcome me to the Wonderful World of Charter, I've been there all summer! You make the helpful suggestion of trying going to work at 7pm, flying two sectors through the night, before returning home. Well I have (let's say for example a nice pleasant little run of night IBZ, night PFO, night IBZ(2110 checkin!), at least twice in the past four months. Again, I can't help but notice that you don't do this type of flying up in MAN so wouldn't have been exposed to these joys.
I think opening your post with the statement that people are whinging is neither helpful nor constructive towards what everyone wants - which is the continued success of GB along with best working conditions for its employees.
People who join from other outfits stating 'well things were considerably worse as a cruise relief pilot for International Afghan Air Routes', and so by direct comparison GB is absolutely fantastic, just confuse the issues at hand.
There is a need to realistically except the changes that have occurred in our industry, but no requirement to have an automatic reduction in lifestyle to match the worse in the business!
You quite clearly state that you are in a somewhat different position to the majority of GB's flight deck in that you are based at Manchester. For those that don't know this is a very small base, with only 1 airframe and very limited route structure and consequently very pleasant working conditions - only 2 real check in times, 9-11 days flying a month and little chance of getting called off standby. As such I'm not convinced that you have any real frame of reference to comment on the grievances of the pilots living and operating 'down south'. As for Belfast 6 times a day 4 days in a row, that does seem dull, but so does constant rotations of MAN-TFS-MAN, MAN-PFO-MAN, but each to their own I suppose...
If Jubilee House is such a none event, and it absolutely isn't, then why are BALPA taking an indicative vote as to whether the workforce has the stomach for industrial action over the move?
I've been here over four years and have never found myself unable to park in the Bee Hive car park, especially since the office staff were asked to park in the overflow across the road, so I don't really understand your point here, but being MAN based this is the type of thing you wouldn't actually know.
As for the Red Sea Charters there's not much to say, other than that (Sharm & HRG aside), they are charters, and I joined a Scheduled BA Franchise airline.
Concerning 737 lease, I was told (from the horses mouth in flight ops), that the real reason behind the damp lease was that there is insufficient work next winter for another airframe so the most cost effective solution was to lease and return after the summer surge. This doesn't quite conform to your rather optimistic constant expansion ideal, nor is it exactly representative of the easyJet business model!
The food is worse elsewhere, so it’s absolutely fine and we shouldn't attempt to improve things. Again that strange 'just accept it' attitude. It's also not actually true if you compare to other operators such as BA, Virgin, Thomson, Thomas Cook etc (remember we are still a BA franchise!)
As you quite rightly point out, profit related pay is intrinsically linked to a company’s profit. No profit, no bonus. More importantly however, a company consistently failing to make a profit leads where......not really that difficult to comprehend.
No need to welcome me to the Wonderful World of Charter, I've been there all summer! You make the helpful suggestion of trying going to work at 7pm, flying two sectors through the night, before returning home. Well I have (let's say for example a nice pleasant little run of night IBZ, night PFO, night IBZ(2110 checkin!), at least twice in the past four months. Again, I can't help but notice that you don't do this type of flying up in MAN so wouldn't have been exposed to these joys.
I think opening your post with the statement that people are whinging is neither helpful nor constructive towards what everyone wants - which is the continued success of GB along with best working conditions for its employees.
People who join from other outfits stating 'well things were considerably worse as a cruise relief pilot for International Afghan Air Routes', and so by direct comparison GB is absolutely fantastic, just confuse the issues at hand.
There is a need to realistically except the changes that have occurred in our industry, but no requirement to have an automatic reduction in lifestyle to match the worse in the business!
Join Date: Jun 2003
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How many more years do you think the company will operate if they continue to make a financial loss? When you've cut as many costs as you possibly can and are unable to increase revenue by increasing pricing then where do you go?
Unlike other airlines, GB's future is not its own. It is constrained by the BA franchise and what KH would like to do as part of his profit improvement plan is not in-line with what BA will allow.
As another poster has already stated, is it all not so "inevitable"?
Unlike other airlines, GB's future is not its own. It is constrained by the BA franchise and what KH would like to do as part of his profit improvement plan is not in-line with what BA will allow.
As another poster has already stated, is it all not so "inevitable"?