Air Mauritius defies IFALPA
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Hi boys and Girls,
So did anybody ask ask the CAA, BALPA, IFALPA to clear this up?
If 'contactble' is not a duty day I'm sure BALPA will have something to say to the CAA about that, because this changes the rules for me up here, up north.
Has the CAA and MK just changed my terms and conditions???
So did anybody ask ask the CAA, BALPA, IFALPA to clear this up?
If 'contactble' is not a duty day I'm sure BALPA will have something to say to the CAA about that, because this changes the rules for me up here, up north.
Has the CAA and MK just changed my terms and conditions???
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Some food for thought for the two pilot unions in Air Mauritius... This comes from teh Ryanair thread next door here...
quote:
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It would be improper for me to comment on the status of any issues which affect one particular member of this association.
But let's be clear, IALPA stands ready to provide the necessary resources (legal and industrial) to support any individual licence holder who exercises the statutory obligations to stand down from their assigned duties for reasons of safety such as pilot fatigue.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
!
Time to get into gear!
I came across the following on the IALPA website (posted by the President of IALPA):
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It would be improper for me to comment on the status of any issues which affect one particular member of this association.
But let's be clear, IALPA stands ready to provide the necessary resources (legal and industrial) to support any individual licence holder who exercises the statutory obligations to stand down from their assigned duties for reasons of safety such as pilot fatigue.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
!
Somehow I don't think that this matter is over
Time to get into gear!
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The situation in Air Mauritius and Ryanair – each with its own thread here on PPRuNe - have a number of important parallels with similar, and less well publicised, events involving pilot fatigue. We have reached the point where inappropriate management intervention has apparently become relatively normal. Only a few pilots seem to appreciate how significant these developments have become.
To my mind the key things to note are:
(a) the responsibility for behaving in the correct way lies exclusively with the pilot,
(b) the power to make the pilot’s life difficult (at a minimum) lies with the employer,
(c) the willingness of employers to directly interfere on issues of duty time has increased markedly, especially at the low cost end of the spectrum,
(d) those intervening are often management pilots who are also postholders with legal obligations, and,
(e) Aviation Authorities are remarkably slow (cautious if you are feeling charitable) to respond to claims that malpractice or inappropriate behaviour occurs in this area.
The overall effect is to ensure that those pilots who think it appropriate to “keep a low profile” will do as their employer bids. This is not what is expected from the safety perspective, nor what is required from a legal perspective.
The behaviour of management at both Ryanair and Air Mauritius gives rise to concern not least because they both seem to feel that they have a right to behave as they do and, if challenged, to agressively go after individuals. At the same time, stories attacking the integrity and motivation of individual pilots begin to appear. These techniques are now becoming relatively common.
There seems to be little ability or willingness on the part of Aviation Authorities or ICAO to recognise the gradual erosion of a long established safety barrier. It is equally worth noting that fatigue is not a much used reason for failing to report for duty.
We will not have heard the end of this particular problem until some action is taken. Clearly the imbalance is between the responsibility carried by each individual licence holder and his or her power to act on that responsibility without suffering direct or indirect consequences. Some attention to the willingness of management pilots to look to their responsibilities might also be appropriate. So we might be waiting for a little while for any real action …
To my mind the key things to note are:
(a) the responsibility for behaving in the correct way lies exclusively with the pilot,
(b) the power to make the pilot’s life difficult (at a minimum) lies with the employer,
(c) the willingness of employers to directly interfere on issues of duty time has increased markedly, especially at the low cost end of the spectrum,
(d) those intervening are often management pilots who are also postholders with legal obligations, and,
(e) Aviation Authorities are remarkably slow (cautious if you are feeling charitable) to respond to claims that malpractice or inappropriate behaviour occurs in this area.
The overall effect is to ensure that those pilots who think it appropriate to “keep a low profile” will do as their employer bids. This is not what is expected from the safety perspective, nor what is required from a legal perspective.
The behaviour of management at both Ryanair and Air Mauritius gives rise to concern not least because they both seem to feel that they have a right to behave as they do and, if challenged, to agressively go after individuals. At the same time, stories attacking the integrity and motivation of individual pilots begin to appear. These techniques are now becoming relatively common.
There seems to be little ability or willingness on the part of Aviation Authorities or ICAO to recognise the gradual erosion of a long established safety barrier. It is equally worth noting that fatigue is not a much used reason for failing to report for duty.
We will not have heard the end of this particular problem until some action is taken. Clearly the imbalance is between the responsibility carried by each individual licence holder and his or her power to act on that responsibility without suffering direct or indirect consequences. Some attention to the willingness of management pilots to look to their responsibilities might also be appropriate. So we might be waiting for a little while for any real action …
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Spot on BBT! Well said and well written.
Another interesting irony is how your average line pilot is required to demonstrate CRM skills through all phases of assessment and could, technically suffer negative consequences if he/she didn't.
How sick making it is to sit next to OPs Management on the same courses, and watch them go back into their offices where all CRM skill are tossed out the window and they carry on as they please. In other words, 'Do as I say, not as I do'. Many post holders can't even spell CRM, haven't a clue what it's about and don't relaise that their own crews are assessed on such. Bullying, harrassement, intimidation, autocratic behaviour etc. would get you kicked off the flight deck in a heartbeat. At MK and Ryannair, they would appear to be first in management credentials! And your right BBT, they are not the only ones!
Another interesting irony is how your average line pilot is required to demonstrate CRM skills through all phases of assessment and could, technically suffer negative consequences if he/she didn't.
How sick making it is to sit next to OPs Management on the same courses, and watch them go back into their offices where all CRM skill are tossed out the window and they carry on as they please. In other words, 'Do as I say, not as I do'. Many post holders can't even spell CRM, haven't a clue what it's about and don't relaise that their own crews are assessed on such. Bullying, harrassement, intimidation, autocratic behaviour etc. would get you kicked off the flight deck in a heartbeat. At MK and Ryannair, they would appear to be first in management credentials! And your right BBT, they are not the only ones!
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Hi boys and girls!
A couple of comments
I would like to understand one thing here: why on earth is the report of Mr Gibb be grounds for any sanction against RR since he acted as President of his association. Surely, if the association is wrong, you shoot the association and not the messenger. Now, that is assuming that indeed the association is wrong. WHich brings me to my second comment:
In the UK, CONTACTABLE is DUTY. Now, how on earth did the CAA Mr Gibb come to a conclusion opposite to the current UK industry standard baffles me and my colleagues. Should we undertstand that the meaning of the CAP371 is one in the UK and another in the third world and Africa? So, if I get off the end of the runway in Cairo on my G registered aircraft, the CAA investigation can potentially have a different conclusion compared to the same occurence being investigated in Luton under exactly the same circumstances! Now, taking into account the globalised nature of our job, this is certainly NOT good news! Here I will be OK, over there, I might be shot at dawn...
These ambiguities have the potential of creating a major problem for the CAA. Indeed, UK institutions have been the Golden Standard in the world for hundreds of years. Reputable institutions like our Parliament, Court system, Universities, BBC (!) etc have been world famous, a source of reference and inspiration.
Today, the interpretation of a few individuals of the "rules for Africa" has the potential to discredit the UK CAA... I shall not comment on the joy across the channel that such a situation might create! (I can already hear our French neighbours rubbing their hands with a wide grin on thier faces, with a wink to our Dutch friends). The UK CAA will find it harder to get itself taken seriously at the JAA. God only know what kind of political and power arena that institution is. And now, THAT!
Last but not least, how is RR doing? Keep it up mate! You are NOT alone!
A couple of comments
MK has not yet received the report from the CAA. However, it is clear that the conclusions of Mr. David Gibb are forceful enough to now sanction RR
In the UK, CONTACTABLE is DUTY. Now, how on earth did the CAA Mr Gibb come to a conclusion opposite to the current UK industry standard baffles me and my colleagues. Should we undertstand that the meaning of the CAP371 is one in the UK and another in the third world and Africa? So, if I get off the end of the runway in Cairo on my G registered aircraft, the CAA investigation can potentially have a different conclusion compared to the same occurence being investigated in Luton under exactly the same circumstances! Now, taking into account the globalised nature of our job, this is certainly NOT good news! Here I will be OK, over there, I might be shot at dawn...
These ambiguities have the potential of creating a major problem for the CAA. Indeed, UK institutions have been the Golden Standard in the world for hundreds of years. Reputable institutions like our Parliament, Court system, Universities, BBC (!) etc have been world famous, a source of reference and inspiration.
Today, the interpretation of a few individuals of the "rules for Africa" has the potential to discredit the UK CAA... I shall not comment on the joy across the channel that such a situation might create! (I can already hear our French neighbours rubbing their hands with a wide grin on thier faces, with a wink to our Dutch friends). The UK CAA will find it harder to get itself taken seriously at the JAA. God only know what kind of political and power arena that institution is. And now, THAT!
Last but not least, how is RR doing? Keep it up mate! You are NOT alone!
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So what's new? Anybody got any goss or updates on the situation in paradise? Is RR still derostered and what's the word from IFALPA on all of this? I still think MK is going to string it out for as long as it can, hoping to wear the poor guy down.
And where's the CAA going to fall with regards to the apparent differences in what applies to 1st world and the 3rd world? Unless anyone thinks that this is just a little island far away from us. Look at what's happening on another Ireland just 30 minutes away from our 1st world!
And where's the CAA going to fall with regards to the apparent differences in what applies to 1st world and the 3rd world? Unless anyone thinks that this is just a little island far away from us. Look at what's happening on another Ireland just 30 minutes away from our 1st world!
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Spot on James64 ! I don't think there are 2 standards at CAA but rather is the infamous Mr Gibb up to standard ?...
Who is he kidding ? Does he think all Mkstaff just fell off their coconut tree & would be mesmerised by his whiteman's magic ?
NOT !...
This is definitely something IFALPA should hear about. They have the opportunity to knock at CAA's door & ask for clarification.
I believe things have happened before this meet that i can't say publicly nor on this website if idon't want to end in the cooler , but you guys out there know the modus operandi of MK , So think of what I am thinking of now...
Last news is that RR is still holding out thanks to our support, he knows he is not alone but I'm sure it hurts specially as Xmas is fast approaching...
it,s really sad seeing how Mk uses double standards, one of our A340 F/Os was the "guest" of the HKG Government after having several drinks too many. On his return he was posted on ATR but
found his way back on A340 due to the severe shortage of drivers. Well I'm sure RR's buddies wont mind having him back!
As for the young lad , in my opinion not a chip off the old block...
Who is he kidding ? Does he think all Mkstaff just fell off their coconut tree & would be mesmerised by his whiteman's magic ?
NOT !...
This is definitely something IFALPA should hear about. They have the opportunity to knock at CAA's door & ask for clarification.
I believe things have happened before this meet that i can't say publicly nor on this website if idon't want to end in the cooler , but you guys out there know the modus operandi of MK , So think of what I am thinking of now...
Last news is that RR is still holding out thanks to our support, he knows he is not alone but I'm sure it hurts specially as Xmas is fast approaching...
it,s really sad seeing how Mk uses double standards, one of our A340 F/Os was the "guest" of the HKG Government after having several drinks too many. On his return he was posted on ATR but
found his way back on A340 due to the severe shortage of drivers. Well I'm sure RR's buddies wont mind having him back!
As for the young lad , in my opinion not a chip off the old block...
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All the fun and games happening, can anyone in MK shed any light on whether this matter has been taken further? I heard words that they were planning to question the CAA and ask IFALPA and so on to check into it.
Lady Penelope, I think we can all read between the lines. However until his report is made public or at least those who have seen it can quote from it, we really have no idea what he said. Can anyone who has seen the report help us out?
Meantime I managed to speak to some friends who work with other 1st world airline and it seems nothing has been mentioned to them about "Contactable" having changed. As for us, I spoke to our rostering people and it seems there's no change as yet. Fingers crossed.
Lady Penelope, I think we can all read between the lines. However until his report is made public or at least those who have seen it can quote from it, we really have no idea what he said. Can anyone who has seen the report help us out?
Meantime I managed to speak to some friends who work with other 1st world airline and it seems nothing has been mentioned to them about "Contactable" having changed. As for us, I spoke to our rostering people and it seems there's no change as yet. Fingers crossed.
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I don't know if the CAA has made it's final ruling yet but I do know that my 'contactables' have started to look exactly like my standbys and that means, if it looks like a duty day, feels like a duty day and sounds liker a duty day....... it is a duty day!
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getting nervous?
Latest news:
No Mou signed due to the management continued delaying tactic but the mess is coming.
On ATR fleet 4 capt resignations in 5 months out of 13 capt!!!
ATR F/Os are denied staff tickets to RUN during their days OFF and must stay in MRU!!! (I heard basic human rights?? nooo not in paradise!!!)
ATR CP just published a memo reminding that calling in sick before and after leaves and when called for duty is a gross misconduct and that he will not stand any form of insubordination!!!
A lot of more fun still to come with Christmas and new year, as a bad MK flu virus could be around if things go on like this....
No Mou signed due to the management continued delaying tactic but the mess is coming.
On ATR fleet 4 capt resignations in 5 months out of 13 capt!!!
ATR F/Os are denied staff tickets to RUN during their days OFF and must stay in MRU!!! (I heard basic human rights?? nooo not in paradise!!!)
ATR CP just published a memo reminding that calling in sick before and after leaves and when called for duty is a gross misconduct and that he will not stand any form of insubordination!!!
A lot of more fun still to come with Christmas and new year, as a bad MK flu virus could be around if things go on like this....
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A CP saying that being sick is tantamount to grosse misconduct is absolutely insane! Sorry, I once wanted to to join but this thread has made me very, very nervous. I don't think I want to fly as a passenger anymore.
If this is the new culture, they haven't got a prayer, they won't get crew and eventually, they won't get passengers. Good luck to all of you still there, you have our heartfelt support and sympathy
If this is the new culture, they haven't got a prayer, they won't get crew and eventually, they won't get passengers. Good luck to all of you still there, you have our heartfelt support and sympathy
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Heard that a few days ago, they had no ATR crew to fly 48 pax to Reunion. So, they sent a 340 instead. Good way of making business, hey. So, the new Managing Director is obviously a wizkid: why send an ATR when you can send an airbus 340! Aviation is a funny world, especially in Mauritius: any idiot can claim to be an aviation expert there becuase they try to bullsh*t their way. We are the most qualified people in that bl**dy company and some idiot gets a job for being close to some dinky political protegee... This is simply nauseating! Who would have thought that this little island and these sh*tty little people would eventually redefine aviation law for europe and beyond? Hello WORLD, will you let this happen?
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Well done Neervan! Well done Sanjay!
Well done! Keep it up and you will have signed the end of Air Mauritius! BRAVO! In 3 months, you would have done that 35 years of incompetence before you had failed to do!
I agree, there is a world of idiots out there running aviation thinking that they know it all. Please. people, please GO AWAY! It has already been told to you. And take the likes of BP and his stooges with you. You are not only killing aviation in Mauritius, but you are killing the whole Mauritian economy! My God, help us all! When will the good Dr Ramgoolam step inj and save the day?
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Hello boys and girls!
Has anyone tried to get in touch with Derek Brown at the UK CAA? He is one of the bosses there. He surely would have an authoritative opinion on the question!
Anyway, who are those clowns?
Elvis had left the building
Has anyone tried to get in touch with Derek Brown at the UK CAA? He is one of the bosses there. He surely would have an authoritative opinion on the question!
Well done Neervan! Well done Sanjay!
Elvis had left the building
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GE CF6 - your big mouth & apparent lack of respect to others has already personally led to this thread having been moved to the backwaters of this site - your post is way out of line & will hopefully be binned. Nauseating - you personify the expression.
I'd prefer to have sent this rebuke by PM or email but you have elected not to receive such mail.
4HP
I'd prefer to have sent this rebuke by PM or email but you have elected not to receive such mail.
4HP
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Quite a sad state of affairs. Know quite a few of the old timers still there and things not sounding too good for them. New offer from management very typical of their short sightedness; new recruits starting salary bumped up but the longer serving guys get very little. Many of the very senior experienced guys seriously looking around now as the incentive (salary) to stay is no longer there; better to go as first year capt somewhere else with a longivity package.... sad to see guys with over 15 years service now looking for greener pastures. Used to be such a good airline to work for! Good luck guys!
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sad to see guys with over 15 years service now looking for greener pastures
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Days off in layovers
Latest news:
To raise pilots morale, stop the alarming attrition rate and prepare christmas a new briefing notice came out in MK:
As approved by the UK CAA all layover days will be considered as days off!!!!!
All our sympathy to MK long haul pilots!
To raise pilots morale, stop the alarming attrition rate and prepare christmas a new briefing notice came out in MK:
As approved by the UK CAA all layover days will be considered as days off!!!!!
All our sympathy to MK long haul pilots!