European Aviation Problems (Merged)
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I really feel sorry for those at European. When I was there it was truly awful. They messed people around no end. I did 9 months. Being given 12 hours notice to go to the middle east for 3 months in the run up to the Iraq war was the last straw. We were assured that if the war threatened us in Saudi, we would be flown out. I doubt they would have had the organisational skills to do that with all the confusion going round at the time. So rather than get myself into a situation, I resigned-giving them 12 hours notice of course...
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111boy.
who are you and where are you coming from? why haven't you open your eyes and seen what is going on around you? or are you still employed by EAAC and think that everything is rosey?
my advice to you is grow up, get a brain and then think.
There are alot of unhappy people here who really haven't appreciated the fact that paul stoddart has taken them for a ride. The bloke is an A
hole who has no considderation for anyone and he is someone who lacks the simple thing of life, like being human and having feelings. If you believe anything hes says then you are as bad as he is.
What we need to do now is create as much noise as possible and make it as difficult for him as possible, show him we are still here and we mean business.
What we don't need is comments like, just a few days..... Just a few days is all he needs to be home free and dry with all of what is rightfully ours.
why haven't you and the majority of other ex-european staff that haven't vented their views, realise this?
who are you and where are you coming from? why haven't you open your eyes and seen what is going on around you? or are you still employed by EAAC and think that everything is rosey?
my advice to you is grow up, get a brain and then think.
There are alot of unhappy people here who really haven't appreciated the fact that paul stoddart has taken them for a ride. The bloke is an A
hole who has no considderation for anyone and he is someone who lacks the simple thing of life, like being human and having feelings. If you believe anything hes says then you are as bad as he is.What we need to do now is create as much noise as possible and make it as difficult for him as possible, show him we are still here and we mean business.
What we don't need is comments like, just a few days..... Just a few days is all he needs to be home free and dry with all of what is rightfully ours.
why haven't you and the majority of other ex-european staff that haven't vented their views, realise this?
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Boss Raptor
Woodland was never a real director but he was installed as chief operating officer and tried his best to take over the company on the sly. He brought the company to its knees but was aparently installed by the proposed new owners to represent their interests. £22 mil later I think he represented their interests very well indeed, but I bet he got paid before they rolled him out of the door. I have just checked the forms and he does not appear to be listed as a creditor. What does this mean?
CD
Woodland was never a real director but he was installed as chief operating officer and tried his best to take over the company on the sly. He brought the company to its knees but was aparently installed by the proposed new owners to represent their interests. £22 mil later I think he represented their interests very well indeed, but I bet he got paid before they rolled him out of the door. I have just checked the forms and he does not appear to be listed as a creditor. What does this mean?
CD
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This is the point I am offering - as this 'Woodland' who appears to be of much comment does not appear to have been a director then Stoddard and the rest of the Directors are the ones ultimately legally responsible and as such should be pursued - whatever this 'Woodland' did (wrong!) he was acting under the legal responsibilities and auspices of the EAAC board/directors and as such they are responsible - the Directors of EAAC past and present are clearly detailed in the Moore Stephens document
If you believe that this is a case of a company being 'Phoenix'd' i.e. driven down and then reborn under a new corporate identity then you should complain to the DTI formally, I would suggest under the auspices of yr legal representation and/or BALPA (or alternative Union) - DTI take a very dim view of this and in my experience always investigate on the strength of a substantive and accurate complaint.
If you believe that this is a case of a company being 'Phoenix'd' i.e. driven down and then reborn under a new corporate identity then you should complain to the DTI formally, I would suggest under the auspices of yr legal representation and/or BALPA (or alternative Union) - DTI take a very dim view of this and in my experience always investigate on the strength of a substantive and accurate complaint.
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Crewing Doctor
That still does not let stoddy, blakey and all the other useless directors off the hook. Anybody with half a brain could see before Christmas that it was going t ts up and they just stood by and let it happen.
Woodland was a scruffy individual who used swear words like a second skin. I could see he was useless and wouldn't have let him clean my dustbin let alone attempt to run an airline. The best thing is for European to fade away next Wednesday and boot stoddy and his entourage out of the country - but not until we have all been paid.
None of us will let this lie down until we have received what we are owed.
That still does not let stoddy, blakey and all the other useless directors off the hook. Anybody with half a brain could see before Christmas that it was going t
ts up and they just stood by and let it happen.Woodland was a scruffy individual who used swear words like a second skin. I could see he was useless and wouldn't have let him clean my dustbin let alone attempt to run an airline. The best thing is for European to fade away next Wednesday and boot stoddy and his entourage out of the country - but not until we have all been paid.
None of us will let this lie down until we have received what we are owed.
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Witchway
If EAAC dies next Wednesday, how much do you really think you will get? What about the remaining staff, do they all deserve to lose their jobs as well just because you did?
Maybe you should stop sucking lemons!
CD
If EAAC dies next Wednesday, how much do you really think you will get? What about the remaining staff, do they all deserve to lose their jobs as well just because you did?
Maybe you should stop sucking lemons!
CD
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Crewing Doctor
I think you're the one living on cloud cuckoo land. The way stoddy is creaming everything off European there isn't going to be anything left for us anyway. He and the other directors don't want to go into liquidation because they will then be barred from becoming directors again for a certain amount of time, that won't look good on their cvs. Do you really think the remaining staff are really worried about us? They are just breathing a sigh of relief it isn't them that's worried about paying the mortgage.
No if there is anything I have learnt from this little episode it is to look after number 1 and right upto 560.
Now go back to your nice little job and leave us to do the fighting.
I think you're the one living on cloud cuckoo land. The way stoddy is creaming everything off European there isn't going to be anything left for us anyway. He and the other directors don't want to go into liquidation because they will then be barred from becoming directors again for a certain amount of time, that won't look good on their cvs. Do you really think the remaining staff are really worried about us? They are just breathing a sigh of relief it isn't them that's worried about paying the mortgage.
No if there is anything I have learnt from this little episode it is to look after number 1 and right upto 560.
Now go back to your nice little job and leave us to do the fighting.
Crewing Doctor,
If I was one of those remaining with EAAc/European Skybus I'd be as concerned as **** about the way their Boss is shafting 560 ex employees.
We've not just been made redundant, lied to about the payments we would get up until 17th March, left high and dry on money we are all entitled to by UK Employment Law, but Paul Staddart has asked debtors of EAAC to pay the outstanding money to European Skybus NOT European Aviationa Air Charter.
Of course the fact that this in effect makes European Skybus a Preferential Creditor against the way a CVA should be run probably isn't strictly legal. Isn't it odd that PS and Sue Aston are the two main beneficieries of this wheez. It also means that there is no extra money being recouped into the pot of EAAc to pay to existing creditors and staff.
I feel very sorry for those who remain because they now know that PS cannot be trusted to adhere to Employment Law designed to protect them.
If I was one of those remaining with EAAc/European Skybus I'd be as concerned as **** about the way their Boss is shafting 560 ex employees.
We've not just been made redundant, lied to about the payments we would get up until 17th March, left high and dry on money we are all entitled to by UK Employment Law, but Paul Staddart has asked debtors of EAAC to pay the outstanding money to European Skybus NOT European Aviationa Air Charter.
Of course the fact that this in effect makes European Skybus a Preferential Creditor against the way a CVA should be run probably isn't strictly legal. Isn't it odd that PS and Sue Aston are the two main beneficieries of this wheez. It also means that there is no extra money being recouped into the pot of EAAc to pay to existing creditors and staff.
I feel very sorry for those who remain because they now know that PS cannot be trusted to adhere to Employment Law designed to protect them.
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I worked for Euopean for many years and I knew Paul Stoddart quite well. Whatever his other characteristics, he is an astute businessman, and those who succeed in making lots of money from scratch tend to be a hard-nosed lot.
I am not condoning what is happening at EAAC - I was at the eJ roadshow last week and met a lot of old friends who were very angry and I sympathise enormously, having lost my own job with the company when the One-Elevens were retired. My point is that PGS is typical of the Chief Executive breed, not especially nasty or vindictive. Look around at the other airlines - are they led by cuddly, caring, people-friendly types? I think not, although I will be more than happy to hear otherwise.
Paul Stoddart got it wrong and he is taking steps to salvage the business situation on a purely commercial level. Such action involves job losses in any industry not just aviation. In a cold, hard world he is perhaps ruthless, but hardly the Prince of Darkness.
I am not condoning what is happening at EAAC - I was at the eJ roadshow last week and met a lot of old friends who were very angry and I sympathise enormously, having lost my own job with the company when the One-Elevens were retired. My point is that PGS is typical of the Chief Executive breed, not especially nasty or vindictive. Look around at the other airlines - are they led by cuddly, caring, people-friendly types? I think not, although I will be more than happy to hear otherwise.
Paul Stoddart got it wrong and he is taking steps to salvage the business situation on a purely commercial level. Such action involves job losses in any industry not just aviation. In a cold, hard world he is perhaps ruthless, but hardly the Prince of Darkness.
Pirate, I think you'll find that the really successsful businessmen carry out their duties in accordance with UK Employment Law.
No one is suggesting that the redundancies were not required when they were made, what has greatly upset people is the way in which legal obligations to the staff are being flagrantly ignored.
As a Director he should have acted within the legislation, that is what it is there for. He has failed to do so therefore he isn't that good at his job is he?
I look at other airlines that are making job cuts and see consultation with their staff well in advance, I see terms and conditions being paid in full.
In short I see other companies 'Hard Nosed Company Directors' doing their job properly.
As I think Boss Raptor pointed, sure it was Woodland and the other 'new' Directors from Travel City and Bath Travel who fecked the company up, but why was the legal Owner not keeping a better eye on his plane set?
Pay up what we are legally entitled to and lets move on.
No one is suggesting that the redundancies were not required when they were made, what has greatly upset people is the way in which legal obligations to the staff are being flagrantly ignored.
As a Director he should have acted within the legislation, that is what it is there for. He has failed to do so therefore he isn't that good at his job is he?
I look at other airlines that are making job cuts and see consultation with their staff well in advance, I see terms and conditions being paid in full.
In short I see other companies 'Hard Nosed Company Directors' doing their job properly.
As I think Boss Raptor pointed, sure it was Woodland and the other 'new' Directors from Travel City and Bath Travel who fecked the company up, but why was the legal Owner not keeping a better eye on his plane set?
Pay up what we are legally entitled to and lets move on.
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Yes this whole thing is starting to stink even worse than just before the 17th March. We definitely need to be paid NOW if Paul Stoddart is to retain any honour as the astute businessman he purports to be (maybe he doesn't care).
As for everything else, the custard pie is still in a shallow sub-orbital trajectory until after the meeting on the 7th. So maybe it would not be wise to expect too much whilst chaos reigns supreme (like it always does at European).
Good luck everyone..We're going in.
As for everything else, the custard pie is still in a shallow sub-orbital trajectory until after the meeting on the 7th. So maybe it would not be wise to expect too much whilst chaos reigns supreme (like it always does at European).
Good luck everyone..We're going in.
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London jets, and the rest , for your info my name is XXXX, i was made redundant with everyone else after working over four years at EAC. I havent had any money, and dont have any in the bank. I have been made redundant from one other airline. I am very sorry if my suggestion that we could wait a few days annoyed you, clearly i dont know whats going on around me and need to develop some tolerance and understanding. you are wise and clearly in the right .
O and' grow up , get a brain and think' will try thanks ,i went to the BALPA meeting and think i understand the situation , but sorry for my rash comments .
Sorry that you feel you have to call me names, or assume what i know or dont know, good luck with finding a job, i dont think what has happened is anywhere near correct or legal , but humbly suggest that it might be better to look to the future.
Just my opinion
O and' grow up , get a brain and think' will try thanks ,i went to the BALPA meeting and think i understand the situation , but sorry for my rash comments .
Sorry that you feel you have to call me names, or assume what i know or dont know, good luck with finding a job, i dont think what has happened is anywhere near correct or legal , but humbly suggest that it might be better to look to the future.
Just my opinion
Last edited by 111boy; 23rd Aug 2006 at 08:27.
111 Boy, we have had a drink together and you were good company, not shy of putting an opinion across! I wish you all the best for the future.
I am surprised that you are so accepting of the situation, but as you rightly say that is your option.
Like you I have been made redundant in the past, but the difference between then and now is that those companies acted in accordance with employment law, ensuring that the staff received all monies they were due.
It is totally wrong that Stoddart should be able to behave in such a maverick way ignoring the legislation in place to cover these situations. That is why so many of us are following the legal path.
I am surprised that you are so accepting of the situation, but as you rightly say that is your option.
Like you I have been made redundant in the past, but the difference between then and now is that those companies acted in accordance with employment law, ensuring that the staff received all monies they were due.
It is totally wrong that Stoddart should be able to behave in such a maverick way ignoring the legislation in place to cover these situations. That is why so many of us are following the legal path.
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OK , look i agree its not been done correctly. I think its not all down to stoddy(never met the guy, dont know much about him). More travelcity direct , however, I want the company to continue for the sake of some great friends(cabin crew and flt deck and gnd staff).
Otherwise it would be very different, it strikes me that a very unfortunate set of circumstances befel EAC, but probably it was always coming , the markets tend to squash the smaller companies, banks or airlines.
I think that if the legal path is pursued we may somehow close down the company, there is no money, and we will all lose out.
Just trying to move on , and its depressing.
If i had 938 posts i guess you could say i was not shy in putting an opinion across, witchway, do you have the balls to tell me who you are?
Otherwise it would be very different, it strikes me that a very unfortunate set of circumstances befel EAC, but probably it was always coming , the markets tend to squash the smaller companies, banks or airlines.
I think that if the legal path is pursued we may somehow close down the company, there is no money, and we will all lose out.
Just trying to move on , and its depressing.
If i had 938 posts i guess you could say i was not shy in putting an opinion across, witchway, do you have the balls to tell me who you are?
Last edited by 111boy; 3rd Apr 2004 at 22:16.
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111boy
When I receive everything I am owed, I will let you all know who I am but for the moment there would be nothing to gain. When you have been in the business as long as I have it doesn't take long to spot a criminal or five, and European has got them aplenty.
Stoddy starting up all these other companies by using our money which he no doubt salted away before black Wednesday, is immoral and it is only a matter of time before he closes European Aviation down so that he can concentrate on his other companies. But not until he has milked it for all it is worth. Watch this space.
When I receive everything I am owed, I will let you all know who I am but for the moment there would be nothing to gain. When you have been in the business as long as I have it doesn't take long to spot a criminal or five, and European has got them aplenty.
Stoddy starting up all these other companies by using our money which he no doubt salted away before black Wednesday, is immoral and it is only a matter of time before he closes European Aviation down so that he can concentrate on his other companies. But not until he has milked it for all it is worth. Watch this space.
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Anyone know if this new start up airline Antopedian Air Charter has out to do with mr stoddy?
Funny how the name is similar..... the UK bases are MAN and LGW... (EAL 2 biggest bases) perth... always was a uk/oz link with EAL... what with us doing flight for Oztravel and oh! MR Stoddy being Ozzy of course! and finally.... this airline has found a few old 747-200's knocking around.... wonder where he found them?
Is it just me, or is this like way to much of a coincidence?
Funny how the name is similar..... the UK bases are MAN and LGW... (EAL 2 biggest bases) perth... always was a uk/oz link with EAL... what with us doing flight for Oztravel and oh! MR Stoddy being Ozzy of course! and finally.... this airline has found a few old 747-200's knocking around.... wonder where he found them?
Is it just me, or is this like way to much of a coincidence?
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So, The email from PGS this am states .....
The important phrase there is, statutory maximums .
IMHO he knowingly let us work for the last few weeks, ( alledgedly there were discussions on bankrupcy at least two weeks before March 17th) knowing that all we would be paid would be the statutory maximum , which in my case falls about 10K short of what I am owed.
Thanks Paul, you're all heart
All employees made redundant are treated as preferential Creditors for unpaid salary and can expect to receive payment in lieu of notice, holiday pay and redundancy pay up to the statutory maximums.
IMHO he knowingly let us work for the last few weeks, ( alledgedly there were discussions on bankrupcy at least two weeks before March 17th) knowing that all we would be paid would be the statutory maximum , which in my case falls about 10K short of what I am owed.
Thanks Paul, you're all heart
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Recieved a call from E.a.C today, was shocked to learn they where after people for freelance work!!
Dont get me wrong times are hard but i still have some pride.
They wanted me to work for a flat fee per day weekends only!!
At the moment i could really do with the money but when i asked when i would see the fruits of my labour they said "in my next pay packet"
Excuse me but in still waiting for my last!!
I couldnt believe it, are we supposed to trust in this company again??
Has anyone else had the same offer, and what do you think about it??
I know beggers cant be choosers but come on............................
Dont get me wrong times are hard but i still have some pride.
They wanted me to work for a flat fee per day weekends only!!
At the moment i could really do with the money but when i asked when i would see the fruits of my labour they said "in my next pay packet"
Excuse me but in still waiting for my last!!
I couldnt believe it, are we supposed to trust in this company again??
Has anyone else had the same offer, and what do you think about it??
I know beggers cant be choosers but come on............................