European Aviation Problems (Merged)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London,Bucharest...wherever...
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I mentioned in (now pages) earlier - this 'Woodland' you all talk about was never a Director of EAAC according to the Administrators document - Stoddard was/is...as were others
Someone put him in charge - the directors...and someone had a legal responsibility to supervise him - the directors
Someone put him in charge - the directors...and someone had a legal responsibility to supervise him - the directors
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: JMC Mining Ship, Red Dwarf. 3 million years from earth.
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just recieved this e-mail thought it maybe of interest to everyone.
LJ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was confirmed at the meeting with DLA (Dibb Lupton Allsop) that EAAC (European Aviation Air Charter) and PS (Paul Stoddart) have gone about everything the wrong way with regard to employment law. It was also said in regard to this that if the company was still trading and solvent then they would have to pay all monies owed to us, including 90 day consultation period that we should have had due to making over 100 staff redundant. Because the CVA (Company Voluntry Arrangement) EAAC and PS have covered their backs and the maximum we will get is the £800 which we will have to claim for by filling out and sending the yellow forms back, therefore staff are not entitled to claim further, neither can any of the preferential creditors as listed in the CVA.
I am advised that there is a claim for the following;
90 day consultation period
notice period as stated in our contracts
flight pay owed
bounuses owed (eg hajj bonus)
day off payments owed
bar commission owed
annual leave days owed
and anything else that you have a claim for, eg phone calls etc.
As it stands staff will be paid what they are owed in 3 payments spread over a 15 month period. HOWEVER this can be cancelled or changed without any notice to us. PS has covered his tracks in everything he has done and we are up against a very high and very thick brick wall.
DLA have agreed to look at the information I have provided them and we will know if there is any loose bricks in the wall within the next 24 to 36 hours. There is a very limited amout of time in which to do this so lets keep our fingers crossed.
If DLA take this on then we will need to make some sort of database of all of you who are serious and want to fight for what you believe in. It maybe a case of having to set up a fighting fund to fight this all the way and make as much noise as possible. PS has not liked what he has read on the internet and it maybe a case of a PR excercise next as well. With this in mind, if DLA to decide to take us on then we will need to co-ordinate our efforts and I will need to establish a few people to work with me. (NAMES EDITED) are co-ordinating the manchester base.
What I would like is for anyone who is wanting to fight to fight this to prepare a statement with the following;
Full name
Phone numbers home and mobile
home address
e-mail address
fax number
time with company
base
job title
and a complete breakdown of monies owed
This will be needed if DLA decide to take us on and as I said we will know this in the next 24 - 36 hours.
Best wishes
(NAME EDITED)
LJ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was confirmed at the meeting with DLA (Dibb Lupton Allsop) that EAAC (European Aviation Air Charter) and PS (Paul Stoddart) have gone about everything the wrong way with regard to employment law. It was also said in regard to this that if the company was still trading and solvent then they would have to pay all monies owed to us, including 90 day consultation period that we should have had due to making over 100 staff redundant. Because the CVA (Company Voluntry Arrangement) EAAC and PS have covered their backs and the maximum we will get is the £800 which we will have to claim for by filling out and sending the yellow forms back, therefore staff are not entitled to claim further, neither can any of the preferential creditors as listed in the CVA.
I am advised that there is a claim for the following;
90 day consultation period
notice period as stated in our contracts
flight pay owed
bounuses owed (eg hajj bonus)
day off payments owed
bar commission owed
annual leave days owed
and anything else that you have a claim for, eg phone calls etc.
As it stands staff will be paid what they are owed in 3 payments spread over a 15 month period. HOWEVER this can be cancelled or changed without any notice to us. PS has covered his tracks in everything he has done and we are up against a very high and very thick brick wall.
DLA have agreed to look at the information I have provided them and we will know if there is any loose bricks in the wall within the next 24 to 36 hours. There is a very limited amout of time in which to do this so lets keep our fingers crossed.
If DLA take this on then we will need to make some sort of database of all of you who are serious and want to fight for what you believe in. It maybe a case of having to set up a fighting fund to fight this all the way and make as much noise as possible. PS has not liked what he has read on the internet and it maybe a case of a PR excercise next as well. With this in mind, if DLA to decide to take us on then we will need to co-ordinate our efforts and I will need to establish a few people to work with me. (NAMES EDITED) are co-ordinating the manchester base.
What I would like is for anyone who is wanting to fight to fight this to prepare a statement with the following;
Full name
Phone numbers home and mobile
home address
e-mail address
fax number
time with company
base
job title
and a complete breakdown of monies owed
This will be needed if DLA decide to take us on and as I said we will know this in the next 24 - 36 hours.
Best wishes
(NAME EDITED)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
European operates flight to Maldives this Saturday
European Aviation are operating a flight on B747 to Maldives this Saturday. The crew are on a 20 day trip.
How can they operate this flight when they haven't paid their staff for March?
How can they operate this flight when they haven't paid their staff for March?
Ok up until today I have been prepared to maintain a dignified view on the manner in which those of us who have been redundant have been treated.
I am well aware that employment law has not been followed, and steps are being taken to try to resolve this through legal channels. I am aware that the amount owed to those of us made redundant is greater than 1 months notice.
What I believed was that in spite of all these irregularities, Paul Stoddart would be a man of his word and that the pay for the days worked in March would be in our bank accounts by today.
My hearing isn't what it was, and the megaphone he used was rubbish, but I'm sure that Paul Stoddart told us that we would receive the monies for March as normal albeit only up until the 17th.
WELL WHY ISN'T MY MONEY IN MY BANK ACCOUNT YET THEN???
The company is still trading yet cannot/won't pay up what is owed to those it has made redundant. Is that legal?
This suggests that Paul Stoddart was being economical with the truth.
Those who wish to tell me that it depended on filling in the yellow form, are you aware that NOT ONE of those forms has yet been processed. They are 'still being collated' before being given to the receivers and on to the Govt. Dept.
That's going to keep my bank and mortgage lender happy is it???
Not connected with monies being sent to a different account is it???
This is the most devious and cack handed action by a Board of Directors that I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with.
The moral appears to be 'knock the staff down then keep kicking for as long as possible'
I am appalled that a high profile person such as Paul Stoddart feels that this is acceptable.
Take it from me matey it bl@@dy well isn't
I am well aware that employment law has not been followed, and steps are being taken to try to resolve this through legal channels. I am aware that the amount owed to those of us made redundant is greater than 1 months notice.
What I believed was that in spite of all these irregularities, Paul Stoddart would be a man of his word and that the pay for the days worked in March would be in our bank accounts by today.
My hearing isn't what it was, and the megaphone he used was rubbish, but I'm sure that Paul Stoddart told us that we would receive the monies for March as normal albeit only up until the 17th.
WELL WHY ISN'T MY MONEY IN MY BANK ACCOUNT YET THEN???
The company is still trading yet cannot/won't pay up what is owed to those it has made redundant. Is that legal?
This suggests that Paul Stoddart was being economical with the truth.
Those who wish to tell me that it depended on filling in the yellow form, are you aware that NOT ONE of those forms has yet been processed. They are 'still being collated' before being given to the receivers and on to the Govt. Dept.
That's going to keep my bank and mortgage lender happy is it???
Not connected with monies being sent to a different account is it???
This is the most devious and cack handed action by a Board of Directors that I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with.
The moral appears to be 'knock the staff down then keep kicking for as long as possible'
I am appalled that a high profile person such as Paul Stoddart feels that this is acceptable.
Take it from me matey it bl@@dy well isn't
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For all you boys and girls ready to hand all your hard earned cash to lawyers .... Bad news. When the company goes into CVA, which it undoubtably will, there will be statutory limits on what the Company and The Minister of state will pay you. It is in the grand scheme of things, peanuts. Don't let some lawyer in a suit tell you otherwise.
The lawyers win again.
We should have learned from the performance of the Minardi F1 team.
The lawyers win again.
We should have learned from the performance of the Minardi F1 team.
OpsReturn, that isn't a true picture at all.
There is already an employment law which states that for the number of employees that have been made redundant there should have been a 90 days consultation period, not a 15 minute that's it **** off announcement, plus the 30 days notice period or whatever was in your contract. That is a lowest limit to what we are owed by the Company, not the UK Govt.
The company going into CVA might not be a disaster for the staff in the long run as the companies responsibilities to them as above are not written off by any offer of 0.06p in the pound to other creditors. In fact it strengthens the chances of payment, if you believe the company isn't going to be wound up.
However to get a CVA approved there has to be an approved recovery strategy which the company is bound to follow.
I'd rather believe a lawyer than you Ops Return, as you sound very close to things and might just have a differing reason to want everyone to shrug their shoulders and lie down quietly.
If anyone thinks that it will go away quietly then I think they will be wrong. Stoddart has caused anger with the way he has treated the staff, and anger could spur people on to damage him in any way possible business wise.
Don't underestimate just how p!ssed off a significant number of people are about this. It's one thing to lose a job it's quite another to feel you have been robbed blind as well.
There is already an employment law which states that for the number of employees that have been made redundant there should have been a 90 days consultation period, not a 15 minute that's it **** off announcement, plus the 30 days notice period or whatever was in your contract. That is a lowest limit to what we are owed by the Company, not the UK Govt.
The company going into CVA might not be a disaster for the staff in the long run as the companies responsibilities to them as above are not written off by any offer of 0.06p in the pound to other creditors. In fact it strengthens the chances of payment, if you believe the company isn't going to be wound up.
However to get a CVA approved there has to be an approved recovery strategy which the company is bound to follow.
I'd rather believe a lawyer than you Ops Return, as you sound very close to things and might just have a differing reason to want everyone to shrug their shoulders and lie down quietly.
If anyone thinks that it will go away quietly then I think they will be wrong. Stoddart has caused anger with the way he has treated the staff, and anger could spur people on to damage him in any way possible business wise.
Don't underestimate just how p!ssed off a significant number of people are about this. It's one thing to lose a job it's quite another to feel you have been robbed blind as well.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The point that is possibly being missed about the CVA here is that at the end of the CVA period (ie in 15 months) any outstanding debt is WRITTEN OFF. You will never see most of the money owed to you. This information has some from BALPA's legal advisor.
Redstripe, I was under that impression as well until an ex colleague made contact with the guys from Cougar who are fighting a similar battle. It was from that source that the info re the CVA came
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is anybody else getting as depressed as I am about the whole issue.
Stoddy, if you don't issue something on this website by tomorrow I am going to contact the local newspaper in the area and get our side of things printed.
So anybody who is reading this and is on Stoddy's side you'd better tell him I'm gunning for him. Anybody with me?
Stoddy, if you don't issue something on this website by tomorrow I am going to contact the local newspaper in the area and get our side of things printed.
So anybody who is reading this and is on Stoddy's side you'd better tell him I'm gunning for him. Anybody with me?
I'm not depressed I'm bl@@dy angry at being taken for a ride.
Pay me my monies in full and he can do what he likes with what is left of the airline.
The remaining staff were paid by cheque this month, not by BACS transfer. Was this drawn from an EAAC account or European Skybus?
On side Witchway, you bet you I am. Pity we can't go to Bahrain and protest at the Formula 1 race
Pay me my monies in full and he can do what he likes with what is left of the airline.
The remaining staff were paid by cheque this month, not by BACS transfer. Was this drawn from an EAAC account or European Skybus?
On side Witchway, you bet you I am. Pity we can't go to Bahrain and protest at the Formula 1 race
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: JMC Mining Ship, Red Dwarf. 3 million years from earth.
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely Not, Witchway
Will you both 100 percent. Pual Stoddart needs to be taught a lesson.
They guy has millions, instead of our money going to his bank account to suppliment his lifestyle, why can he not loan EAAC some money. It will make sense for him to do that in the long run. That is if he wants a good name for himself in the future.
One thing Paul Stoddart, I heard this expression a long time ago, it never really applied until now......
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE A MINORITY
I hope that you understand this.....
if not I'm sure you will soon enough.
And one more thing Paul, you will get your comeuppence, be it in the next week or the next decade, it will happen......
Will you both 100 percent. Pual Stoddart needs to be taught a lesson.
They guy has millions, instead of our money going to his bank account to suppliment his lifestyle, why can he not loan EAAC some money. It will make sense for him to do that in the long run. That is if he wants a good name for himself in the future.
One thing Paul Stoddart, I heard this expression a long time ago, it never really applied until now......
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE A MINORITY
I hope that you understand this.....
if not I'm sure you will soon enough.
And one more thing Paul, you will get your comeuppence, be it in the next week or the next decade, it will happen......
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is sad but I guess that the fact of the matter is that the HAVE'S tend to win over the HAVE NOT'S in this level of dispute, albeit unjustified. I sincerely hope that it all pans out for all of you, especially those that I know personally from my one (great) year spent there on the Classic fleet.
Front Page of the Skyport for Gatwick is an article about EAAC and the job losses containing the following statement:
'Stoddart has promised all the people who worked for him will receive pay owed to them up to the day they leave his company.'
Oh really!!!!!!!!!! Well that isn't the case and I shall be telling the Skyport team that tomorrow first thing.
The company is still trading and it won't even pay for work completed by staff.
Any Australians thinking of working for him, should he actually start his loco operation, take note of how he operates.
'Stoddart has promised all the people who worked for him will receive pay owed to them up to the day they leave his company.'
Oh really!!!!!!!!!! Well that isn't the case and I shall be telling the Skyport team that tomorrow first thing.
The company is still trading and it won't even pay for work completed by staff.
Any Australians thinking of working for him, should he actually start his loco operation, take note of how he operates.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes it is in Paul Stoddart's best interests to do right by all staff both working and not. If he is seen by his backers to have failed on all counts, I cannot really see him starting up this new operation in Oz.
It is only right that he pays us now up to the time we were made redundant.
As regards THAT form. I'm getting very mixed messages on what to do with it and what boxes to tick etc. The HR department are saying that the company is insolvent whereas balpa are saying that we can fill in the form and send it in but tick the box to say it is solvent. Tricky one. I'll probably wait for the next balpa newsletter and make my decision then.
It is only right that he pays us now up to the time we were made redundant.
As regards THAT form. I'm getting very mixed messages on what to do with it and what boxes to tick etc. The HR department are saying that the company is insolvent whereas balpa are saying that we can fill in the form and send it in but tick the box to say it is solvent. Tricky one. I'll probably wait for the next balpa newsletter and make my decision then.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely Not
Thanks for your help with Skyport. It's a pity a few more exEuropean staff haven't got the balls to do something about all of this. There just appears to be a handful of us.
Do you other guys and girls out there really think that if you stay quiet you will get your jobs back? Think again, a handful of you might but the majority won't so get your backsides into gear and find some way of making Stoddy and his cronies pay us.
There seems to be a rumour that he is behind this Antipodean Charter Airline using B747 200's. He's probably starting that up with our March salaries. Do a search on antipodeancharter.com and read what it says, then make your decision.
Thanks for your help with Skyport. It's a pity a few more exEuropean staff haven't got the balls to do something about all of this. There just appears to be a handful of us.
Do you other guys and girls out there really think that if you stay quiet you will get your jobs back? Think again, a handful of you might but the majority won't so get your backsides into gear and find some way of making Stoddy and his cronies pay us.
There seems to be a rumour that he is behind this Antipodean Charter Airline using B747 200's. He's probably starting that up with our March salaries. Do a search on antipodeancharter.com and read what it says, then make your decision.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
111boy
Just where are you coming from? I am owed March salary, holiday pay and April's salary and I need it now to pay my mortgage and buy food. You may be lucky enough to have money in the bank but I don't.
I take it you're one of those without b
s?
Just where are you coming from? I am owed March salary, holiday pay and April's salary and I need it now to pay my mortgage and buy food. You may be lucky enough to have money in the bank but I don't.
I take it you're one of those without b
s?