Bye-Bye-Dubai
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Bye-Bye-Dubai
The other day my wife and I faced the impossible task of returning on staff stand-by tickets from DXB to Europe. We had tickets on KL, AF, LX, BA, and LH but every flight was full or overbooked. And Emirates would not honour our tickets because my line has an agreement with everybody else but them, so we had to shell out US$ 1500 for a couple of cattle class tickets to London. OK so far, I know the rules and I accepted the game.
But what I find particularly upseting is the way you're treated in some parts of the world when you're on a staff ticket (which is a part of your salary). It seems that the average Emirati or Indian or Middleasterner can't pass away the chance to make your day a little more miserable just to show you that he (or she) is in charge. (Hindus beware, you may reincarnate in an ID traveller on your next life). No disrespect intended to any national or ethnic groups, but I'm sure many of us have gone through this ordeal more than once.
The interesting part of the story is that we discovered the hardway how much-advertised Emirates treats its customers. Everything from ticket purchase to the flight itself turned out to be more than disappointing. It's ticket agents were rude, DXB check-in area worthy of an obscure African outpost, check-in procedures third-worldish, it's ground staff can hardly be described as efficient or courteous. The flight was awfully late (oh yes, there had been "fog" in DXB that morning). We were given separate seats (just as a reminder) although one was next to an empty one. The plane was dirty, the 6 pm "lunch" appalling, the options non-existent, the coffee missing, the washroom disgusting, all my calls ignored, the cabin crew nice but unproffessional and couldn't quite cope with a near full load ( I shudder to think what they would've done in an emergency). The captain managed to synchronize the seat-belt sign with the chop -in reverse. Good IFE though, if only my screen had worked as advertised. The purser didn't come to talk to me,a humble Y class pariah (or he was too ashamed). F and C class pax may be pampered, but that doesn't mean you have to treat the others like scum.
Where I work even a new hire flight attendant would be given a business class seat whenever available, not to mention the captain of any airline. Colleagues from other lines are treated like royalty in comparison to EK. Extra meals are ordered if needed, nothing is charged and sometimes I send champagne or wine, compliments of the captain. In Spain pilots can fly on any flight, of any Spanish airline, at zero cost and are invariably offered the best seat in the house, no matter what some inane regulation might or might not say. But then we are in command of our flight, unlike those EK mere airplane drivers.
I know one flight is too little to draw any conclusions. But if what I saw is the typical way EK treats its employees and clients, then no thanks. I'm not applying, DECs or not. I will not subject my family to the hardship of EK travel. And I don't want to fly for a company that spends a lot on advertising and equipment but then forgets the human factor altogether, and where the captain's prerogatives don't go beyond ordering some extra fuel. Perhaps Emirates' glossy cover, superfluous luxury, massive advertising and general haughtiness is hiding a huge inferiority complex and it's just trying to set itself apart from other 3rd world carriers.
PS. The rest of the trip was flown on BA and I would like to thank them for being so courteous and reliable and for providing an excellent value as usual.
But what I find particularly upseting is the way you're treated in some parts of the world when you're on a staff ticket (which is a part of your salary). It seems that the average Emirati or Indian or Middleasterner can't pass away the chance to make your day a little more miserable just to show you that he (or she) is in charge. (Hindus beware, you may reincarnate in an ID traveller on your next life). No disrespect intended to any national or ethnic groups, but I'm sure many of us have gone through this ordeal more than once.
The interesting part of the story is that we discovered the hardway how much-advertised Emirates treats its customers. Everything from ticket purchase to the flight itself turned out to be more than disappointing. It's ticket agents were rude, DXB check-in area worthy of an obscure African outpost, check-in procedures third-worldish, it's ground staff can hardly be described as efficient or courteous. The flight was awfully late (oh yes, there had been "fog" in DXB that morning). We were given separate seats (just as a reminder) although one was next to an empty one. The plane was dirty, the 6 pm "lunch" appalling, the options non-existent, the coffee missing, the washroom disgusting, all my calls ignored, the cabin crew nice but unproffessional and couldn't quite cope with a near full load ( I shudder to think what they would've done in an emergency). The captain managed to synchronize the seat-belt sign with the chop -in reverse. Good IFE though, if only my screen had worked as advertised. The purser didn't come to talk to me,a humble Y class pariah (or he was too ashamed). F and C class pax may be pampered, but that doesn't mean you have to treat the others like scum.
Where I work even a new hire flight attendant would be given a business class seat whenever available, not to mention the captain of any airline. Colleagues from other lines are treated like royalty in comparison to EK. Extra meals are ordered if needed, nothing is charged and sometimes I send champagne or wine, compliments of the captain. In Spain pilots can fly on any flight, of any Spanish airline, at zero cost and are invariably offered the best seat in the house, no matter what some inane regulation might or might not say. But then we are in command of our flight, unlike those EK mere airplane drivers.
I know one flight is too little to draw any conclusions. But if what I saw is the typical way EK treats its employees and clients, then no thanks. I'm not applying, DECs or not. I will not subject my family to the hardship of EK travel. And I don't want to fly for a company that spends a lot on advertising and equipment but then forgets the human factor altogether, and where the captain's prerogatives don't go beyond ordering some extra fuel. Perhaps Emirates' glossy cover, superfluous luxury, massive advertising and general haughtiness is hiding a huge inferiority complex and it's just trying to set itself apart from other 3rd world carriers.
PS. The rest of the trip was flown on BA and I would like to thank them for being so courteous and reliable and for providing an excellent value as usual.
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you are totally correct, I've never been treated as bad as in the Dubai terminal, even in neat uniform and a 2000 US dollar (actually payed for) ticket in my hand.
It's like the uniform gave me a "treat this guy as ****" stamp on my head. I don't expect a royal treatment but I expect the normal stuff you know.
For spain, you actually get the royal treatment, cabin crew stops you when you enter the aircraft, they will arrange the best seats they can offer you, they don't even look at your boarding card whether your in economy or business. And if there is no rush, the captain will even come and say hi to you.
It's like the uniform gave me a "treat this guy as ****" stamp on my head. I don't expect a royal treatment but I expect the normal stuff you know.
For spain, you actually get the royal treatment, cabin crew stops you when you enter the aircraft, they will arrange the best seats they can offer you, they don't even look at your boarding card whether your in economy or business. And if there is no rush, the captain will even come and say hi to you.
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Do you want your egos massaged, boys?
What makes you think dead-heading (with emphasis on the dead-head) pilots or those on interline/ID 90s have to be treated better than pax? Who do you think you are?
What makes you think dead-heading (with emphasis on the dead-head) pilots or those on interline/ID 90s have to be treated better than pax? Who do you think you are?
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Bus429 If you actually read what was said, you'd see the complaints were about being treated a darn sight worse than any passenger, ie, a total lack of common courtesy by airline staff.
Obviously that big chip on your shoulder got in the way of your eyes.
Obviously that big chip on your shoulder got in the way of your eyes.
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I didn't say I was treated bad, I was treated like ****!!
If I would have an ego I would have behaved like I've seen many crew members at airport/hotel desks (I'm sure you can imagine which airlines), on very big wallet salaries, trying to make believe the receptionist they accidently activated the pay TV.
If I would have had an ego I would have demanded a business class seat for free without paying 2000 Euro (not US, sorry my mistake) to my destination.
BTW, can you tell me please wich company asks 2000 Euro for an ID90 ticket, they should be put in jail!!
This is not about ego, I was friendly, they were not. If I would have had an ego, spanish cabin crew would have loved to put me in the back next to the lavatory. They don't have to do it, it's just being nice for a colleague. I would do the same for them instantly...
If I would have an ego I would have behaved like I've seen many crew members at airport/hotel desks (I'm sure you can imagine which airlines), on very big wallet salaries, trying to make believe the receptionist they accidently activated the pay TV.
If I would have had an ego I would have demanded a business class seat for free without paying 2000 Euro (not US, sorry my mistake) to my destination.
BTW, can you tell me please wich company asks 2000 Euro for an ID90 ticket, they should be put in jail!!
This is not about ego, I was friendly, they were not. If I would have had an ego, spanish cabin crew would have loved to put me in the back next to the lavatory. They don't have to do it, it's just being nice for a colleague. I would do the same for them instantly...
mostly harmless
I have seen EK cabin crew handling the reseating prior to takeoff of a female passenger who could not sit next to a male for religious reasons. In a difficult situation where there was no common language, the cc acted like diplomats.
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Bus429........In answer to your question,probably an extremely valuable and highly qualified professional who has normally put in years of graft to be treated like a nobody more and more these days. I should know as my present company will not even let me near business class in or out of uniform, on duty or not. It is indeed a sorry world but there are still some honourable airlines left who treat professionals like professionals. Actually it is not normally the airline that counts but instead, the integrity and character (or stabilty)of its staff!
Good luck with those ID90's and let people not forget, they are not free tickets but a hard won consession awarded instead of a salary increase!!!
Good luck with those ID90's and let people not forget, they are not free tickets but a hard won consession awarded instead of a salary increase!!!
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Staff (and especially flight deck crew) should know by now that ID90/75 tickets aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
ID50 at the minimum, if you hope to travel.
Some years ago was traveling from LGA with an ID50 ticket, and there was only one seat available after all pax had been boarded.
But three that wanted to depart.
Myself, an AA Captain, and his wife.
The AA Captain could have had the obs seat, no problem.
His wife however had only an ID90 ticket.
As I entered the jetway, could hear her screaming....'Harvey, you cheap b@st@rd, you make the big bucks, fine, but those big bucks will be mine from now on, i'm calling the lawyer.'
Suspect even a full fare FC ticket would have been cheaper for this guy, in the end
ID50 at the minimum, if you hope to travel.
Some years ago was traveling from LGA with an ID50 ticket, and there was only one seat available after all pax had been boarded.
But three that wanted to depart.
Myself, an AA Captain, and his wife.
The AA Captain could have had the obs seat, no problem.
His wife however had only an ID90 ticket.
As I entered the jetway, could hear her screaming....'Harvey, you cheap b@st@rd, you make the big bucks, fine, but those big bucks will be mine from now on, i'm calling the lawyer.'
Suspect even a full fare FC ticket would have been cheaper for this guy, in the end
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EK GOLD
I think u have rolled about 20 different problems on 20 different carriers all into one big expanded drama.Like u I too have flown on dozans of differet carriers,one of the worst being United transatlantic,swiftly followed by Iberia to Cuba,all i can say is oh my God.Don't get me started on Spanish cabin crew.I'm crew with EK and I think your experience was a rare one off event.I fly staff travel all the time and 99% of the time the service was as usual,excellent.EK has got the best training facilities in the world and the Cabin Crew here are amongst the best in the world unlike in other,not so profitable carriers where the average age is about 50.Its a shame u had such a bad experience but i can assure u the majority of fare paying pax have a nice time onboard one of the most modern,organised,happy and profitable fleets in the world and WE keep on growing,USA here we come.I do apologise for my bad spelling but English is not my first language.
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Boy, you are one loyal employee !!!!
Dude, what did you drink ?? Must be some great Kool Aid at EK !!!! 
Keep drinking it !!!! Sound like some JB guys.
(Not all, just some)
Later
EK has got the best training facilities in the world and the Cabin Crew here are amongst the best in the world unlike in other,not so profitable carriers where the average age is about 50.
i can assure u the majority of fare paying pax have a nice time onboard one of the most modern,organised,happy and profitable fleets in the world and WE keep on growing,USA here we come
Keep drinking it !!!! Sound like some JB guys.
(Not all, just some)Later
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Te Rangi & NTM
I don't work for EK, but I must have travelled with them on some 80 + sectors over the last 3 years, as a fare paying passenger, so I feel that I am qualified to comment.
In all of those sectors I think I've had grounds to complain 2 or maybe 3 times, as far as their inflight service is concerned. In each case it was a solitary cabin crew member that let the rest of his/her team down.
Why do I travel with them again and again? Simple reason is I find their service ranks as one of the best available in the world, whether I travel in economy or business class.
The ground handling, including the check-in personnel in Dubai is very frequently a different story; but once on the airplane, they set a shining example to all airline crew around the world, in my humble opinion.
Don't confuse the current crew unrest with its management as spilling over onto the professional front the EK crews put forward to their passengers. So, Te Rangi, you must have had an extraordinarily unusual and out of character experience to make such statements about the airline. One experience is hardly proof to make such sweeping statements about an airline in general.
Cheers
Cb
I don't work for EK, but I must have travelled with them on some 80 + sectors over the last 3 years, as a fare paying passenger, so I feel that I am qualified to comment.
In all of those sectors I think I've had grounds to complain 2 or maybe 3 times, as far as their inflight service is concerned. In each case it was a solitary cabin crew member that let the rest of his/her team down.
Why do I travel with them again and again? Simple reason is I find their service ranks as one of the best available in the world, whether I travel in economy or business class.
The ground handling, including the check-in personnel in Dubai is very frequently a different story; but once on the airplane, they set a shining example to all airline crew around the world, in my humble opinion.
Don't confuse the current crew unrest with its management as spilling over onto the professional front the EK crews put forward to their passengers. So, Te Rangi, you must have had an extraordinarily unusual and out of character experience to make such statements about the airline. One experience is hardly proof to make such sweeping statements about an airline in general.
Cheers
Cb
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Bye-Bye-Dubai
Te-Rangi
As a big deal airline captain I am suprised that you are so poorly paid that you have to travel ID90.
Put your hand in your pocket and buy a ticket which will probably
get you home on time. If you cannot afford the fare just stay at home and avoid the problems.
Commercial aviation is full of cheapskates. Do not blame Emirates for your own problems, any time I travelled with them as crew/pos. they were great.
I always fly First or Buisness at my own expense. It ensures that you avoid the whingers.
Rgds. FPG
As a big deal airline captain I am suprised that you are so poorly paid that you have to travel ID90.
Put your hand in your pocket and buy a ticket which will probably
get you home on time. If you cannot afford the fare just stay at home and avoid the problems.
Commercial aviation is full of cheapskates. Do not blame Emirates for your own problems, any time I travelled with them as crew/pos. they were great.
I always fly First or Buisness at my own expense. It ensures that you avoid the whingers.
Rgds. FPG
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ID 90 Tickets,
Are you folk aware that these are not "part of your salary". salary is the monetary sum that is transferred into your bank account each month. Concessionary travel is a perk. These tickets are offered at 10% of the maximum unrestricted fare (usually Y economy class ). they are strictly space available and do not guarantee travel even if space is available.
If there are few of you travelling and time constraints are not a problem and you accept the high likelyhood of refusal /disruption / with standby travel then they may represent something of a bargain. In all other cases it is more certain and often as cheap or indeed cheaper to obtain a purchased apex ticket.
To suggest these tickets are "a hard won concession" is irrelevent given the status they confer. I am not suggesting anyone attempting to travel on such a ticket or in uniform should be treated in a poor manner. However check in staff have to deal with passengers in order of priority and within time constraints. ID90 and standby travel puts you at the back of the queue and sometimes out of it all together.
Are you folk aware that these are not "part of your salary". salary is the monetary sum that is transferred into your bank account each month. Concessionary travel is a perk. These tickets are offered at 10% of the maximum unrestricted fare (usually Y economy class ). they are strictly space available and do not guarantee travel even if space is available.
If there are few of you travelling and time constraints are not a problem and you accept the high likelyhood of refusal /disruption / with standby travel then they may represent something of a bargain. In all other cases it is more certain and often as cheap or indeed cheaper to obtain a purchased apex ticket.
To suggest these tickets are "a hard won concession" is irrelevent given the status they confer. I am not suggesting anyone attempting to travel on such a ticket or in uniform should be treated in a poor manner. However check in staff have to deal with passengers in order of priority and within time constraints. ID90 and standby travel puts you at the back of the queue and sometimes out of it all together.
ATC
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Travelling facilities
I'm not crew member or airline staff, I'm ATC but I often travel with ID 90 or ID00.
I've never complained about being left on the ground because I know the rules of the game.
But once, travelling on BA, I had to write to Customer Service complaining about the service ... I was flying CUN-LGW, already accepted at Check-In and already at Dep Lounge when they announced the flight was delayed by 6 hours ...
CUN dep lounge is very small and has nothing to do, temperature was high and I was travelling according dress conduit for ID travellers, they only served once Coca-Cola or Fanta but they weren't even fresh, and when I asked to see BA representant because I had to make new travel arrangements due to the delay ... I was treated like **** !
BA customer service wrote me back and said one thing I'll never forget : If you're travelling on BA travelling facilities is because BA thinks you deserve them ! Travel/Ticket facilities should be considered not as a favour but as an invitation !
IB has already upgraded my to Business or First as well as Swissair (in the old days). TP often does it mainly on longhaul flights.
I've never complained about being left on the ground because I know the rules of the game.
But once, travelling on BA, I had to write to Customer Service complaining about the service ... I was flying CUN-LGW, already accepted at Check-In and already at Dep Lounge when they announced the flight was delayed by 6 hours ...
CUN dep lounge is very small and has nothing to do, temperature was high and I was travelling according dress conduit for ID travellers, they only served once Coca-Cola or Fanta but they weren't even fresh, and when I asked to see BA representant because I had to make new travel arrangements due to the delay ... I was treated like **** !
BA customer service wrote me back and said one thing I'll never forget : If you're travelling on BA travelling facilities is because BA thinks you deserve them ! Travel/Ticket facilities should be considered not as a favour but as an invitation !
IB has already upgraded my to Business or First as well as Swissair (in the old days). TP often does it mainly on longhaul flights.
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Hmmm,
Unfortunately this thread has the feel of one of the z-list celebrity "Don't you know who I am?" threads. Spot the pilot, stood in the airport lounge with dark glasses and headscarf, trying hard to 'avoid' the press photograpers.........
It gives the distinct impression that airline crews believe they deserve to be carried in some golden throne, shoulder high by a team of slaves, whilst some other fawning lickspittles scatter rose petals and palm fronds in front of them. Then seated in the aircraft where there are wafted with ostrich feather fans and fed grapes whilst annointed with fragrant oils.
As 'professionals' it would be nice to be seen to act as professionals, instead of just demanding to be treated as such.
Unfortunately this thread has the feel of one of the z-list celebrity "Don't you know who I am?" threads. Spot the pilot, stood in the airport lounge with dark glasses and headscarf, trying hard to 'avoid' the press photograpers.........
It gives the distinct impression that airline crews believe they deserve to be carried in some golden throne, shoulder high by a team of slaves, whilst some other fawning lickspittles scatter rose petals and palm fronds in front of them. Then seated in the aircraft where there are wafted with ostrich feather fans and fed grapes whilst annointed with fragrant oils.
As 'professionals' it would be nice to be seen to act as professionals, instead of just demanding to be treated as such.
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witchdoctor,
Very Nicely put. It is not that we don't believe that we shouldn't be treated in the manner you describe. It is just that those of us who have been around the block a few times, realise that this isn't the way it happens !
(addendum) My wife has just read this and has asked me to add ;
" Whats the difference ! He expects to be treated like that at home !"
Very Nicely put. It is not that we don't believe that we shouldn't be treated in the manner you describe. It is just that those of us who have been around the block a few times, realise that this isn't the way it happens !
(addendum) My wife has just read this and has asked me to add ;
" Whats the difference ! He expects to be treated like that at home !"
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Bye bye Dubai
WITCHDOCTOR et all
Well of course he spilled it all when he said " EVEN a cabin attendant etc."
We have seen them all have'nt we? Pushing through the curtains to grab the magazines,asking for a free champagne, shouting the odds at the check in desk. And I quote " My husband is a senior Check captain in this airline,why are you boarding her and not me?
Un -fased Check in lady--"Well madam he bought her a First class ticket, yours bought you an Economy one" . Result all the 50 odd other mortal who did not get on collapsed into laughter and headed for the bar
True story Kai-Tak circa 1990.
There are just not enough Pavarotti's to go around , are there?
Rgds. FPG
Well of course he spilled it all when he said " EVEN a cabin attendant etc."
We have seen them all have'nt we? Pushing through the curtains to grab the magazines,asking for a free champagne, shouting the odds at the check in desk. And I quote " My husband is a senior Check captain in this airline,why are you boarding her and not me?
Un -fased Check in lady--"Well madam he bought her a First class ticket, yours bought you an Economy one" . Result all the 50 odd other mortal who did not get on collapsed into laughter and headed for the bar
True story Kai-Tak circa 1990.
There are just not enough Pavarotti's to go around , are there?
Rgds. FPG
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Witchdoc & Bus429:
It's not about being treated like royalty... It's about being treated with dignity. This wasn't exactly the case at Emirates, neither at the check-in counters when on an ID ticket nor the following day as a normal fare paying pax.
Most professionals get reciprocal concessions related to their own trade and this is considered part of their benefit package (travel agents, doctors, cars salesmen...) and please note that I'm not asking for any special privileges, just a presentable degree of respect and courtesy, if only a fraction of what I've granted to fellow aviators from many airlines (EK included).
FaPoGai:
Thank you for your advise. I've done quite a lot of travelling both professionally and privately, in all sort of tickets, aircraft and in more airlines than I care to remember, but I do not feel that my personal finances are worth commenting about.
Cb:
That's what I thought about EK and you may be right, may be my experience was the odd one out, but I can assure that it was real.
411A:
I agree ID50s are usually the minimum and in fact I reserved one confirmed seat ZED ticket on LH but was put on WL.
Obtaining ID50s is often a lengthy process and you end up paying
50% of a Y full fare ticket which is often a great deal more than the guy seated next to you on a "benefic" fare, and you're still an ID!
I'm sure you must have experienced countless times the sort of wicked enjoyment that (many) ground staff find in making flight crew's life a misery whenever they have a chance. What have we done?
It's not about being treated like royalty... It's about being treated with dignity. This wasn't exactly the case at Emirates, neither at the check-in counters when on an ID ticket nor the following day as a normal fare paying pax.
Most professionals get reciprocal concessions related to their own trade and this is considered part of their benefit package (travel agents, doctors, cars salesmen...) and please note that I'm not asking for any special privileges, just a presentable degree of respect and courtesy, if only a fraction of what I've granted to fellow aviators from many airlines (EK included).
FaPoGai:
Thank you for your advise. I've done quite a lot of travelling both professionally and privately, in all sort of tickets, aircraft and in more airlines than I care to remember, but I do not feel that my personal finances are worth commenting about.
Cb:
That's what I thought about EK and you may be right, may be my experience was the odd one out, but I can assure that it was real.
411A:
I agree ID50s are usually the minimum and in fact I reserved one confirmed seat ZED ticket on LH but was put on WL.
Obtaining ID50s is often a lengthy process and you end up paying
50% of a Y full fare ticket which is often a great deal more than the guy seated next to you on a "benefic" fare, and you're still an ID!
I'm sure you must have experienced countless times the sort of wicked enjoyment that (many) ground staff find in making flight crew's life a misery whenever they have a chance. What have we done?
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TE RANGI,
Personally have not had any problems with ground staff when I travelled IDxx.
Having said this, always tried my best to accomodate said ground staff at outstations when they wanted to RTB.
FD seat...be my guest.
Cabin jumpseat...at your pleasure, if available.
OTOH, did have one station manager who absolutely insisted that one ground staff had to be accomodated, yet we had just plain run out of seats.
Looked this guy straight in the eye and mentioned...'tell you what, I'll give him my seat and will be pleased to return to HOTAC for an extra night (in BKK)...sad to say he declined
Personally have not had any problems with ground staff when I travelled IDxx.
Having said this, always tried my best to accomodate said ground staff at outstations when they wanted to RTB.
FD seat...be my guest.
Cabin jumpseat...at your pleasure, if available.
OTOH, did have one station manager who absolutely insisted that one ground staff had to be accomodated, yet we had just plain run out of seats.
Looked this guy straight in the eye and mentioned...'tell you what, I'll give him my seat and will be pleased to return to HOTAC for an extra night (in BKK)...sad to say he declined