People Leaving Ezy For Greener Pastures.
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People Leaving Ezy For Greener Pastures.
1000 pilots on their books, an estimated 40 resignations since the beginning of 2004. That's a 25th of the pilot workforce leaving. Considering they are short, it does not look too good especially when they need to hire and train 300 pilots for their expansion plans in 2004. Something must give! Making the pilot's pay package and benefits a lot better or slowing down their expansion. A colleague on the inside told me that on the new training courses, 10/12 pilots are TRSS. No probs, but type rated pilots have dried up, what happends when these guys dry up?
Apparently management has had an emergency meeting not so long ago. Should be interesting to see how many people go when the airline market is once again at full strength. I feel that it has now done the U turn and will get stronger and stronger. It's just starting.
Apparently management has had an emergency meeting not so long ago. Should be interesting to see how many people go when the airline market is once again at full strength. I feel that it has now done the U turn and will get stronger and stronger. It's just starting.
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Well, by all accounts, the major issue is lifestyle.
So why not sort it out once and for all?
Give the pilots a reasonable pattern of days on / off and create a stable workforce.
It must be management attitude that is the problem. The hardest thing in the industry to change.
So why not sort it out once and for all?
Give the pilots a reasonable pattern of days on / off and create a stable workforce.
It must be management attitude that is the problem. The hardest thing in the industry to change.
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why oh why, do people persist in starting a post every few days about people leaving ezy?
Every airline has people leaving. But ezy also has quite a few pilots who have left for greener pastures, just to find that they were just bull****e and advertising, and come back.
This aint rumours or news. Its just a fact of life in any company.
If ezy have 960 happy/happyish pilots then they are doing quite well.
Every airline has people leaving. But ezy also has quite a few pilots who have left for greener pastures, just to find that they were just bull****e and advertising, and come back.
This aint rumours or news. Its just a fact of life in any company.
If ezy have 960 happy/happyish pilots then they are doing quite well.
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I have not met any pilot in EZY yet who sees themselves with this outfit untill their retirement. The simple reason: flying full time for 30 years for easyJet will kill you! 
The 6 on, 3 off roster is just too much. Most of the guys are knackered all the time.
If the company would change it to 5 on, 4 off or 4 on, 4 off that would allow crews to properly recover from flying 4 sector days. And the airline would still be able to get maximum hours out its work force. With the new European rules regarding maximum work hours looming (max 2000 hours per year), they will have to change their ways anyway.
Another reason for the fact that pilots want to go elsewhere is not because of pay (which is reasonable) but the very poor travel privileges for its employees. Even though flights are leaving with 10 or more empty seats, employees very often have to pay full fare to get on. A proper standby system for a nominal price would greatly enhance morale and would be a great retention tool as well. (A big money saver in fact!)
At the moment staff travel is viewed as a perk and not as part of standard terms and conditions. Succesful LowCost airlines, one of which easyJet tries to emulate, all provide superb travel privileges for example SouthWest, Jet Blue and even Ryanair.
CEO ray Webster said last year " I you want better staff travel, go join an airline that provides it" .
Well, a lot of guys are starting to do just that. With the job market starting to improve, easyJet might find itself being a training school that produces experienced jet pilots who are welcomed with open arms at Virgin, Brittania, Dragonair and the likes.
Lastly, the culture of blame and the lack of trust between the management and its pilots could be the third reason for people to leave.
When something goes wrong let's say a go-around is initiated due to a poorly executed visual approach, the response would not be: Good decision to go-around, guys!
Instead the response would be: Why did you do visual in the first place? At any one time some 7 or 8 pilots are suspended due to all kinds of disciplinaries. This is not good for morale and causes people to look elsewhere.
I hope the company will improve its self. If not, it will never become the employer of choice.
The orange future could be great but I think Ray Webster would be wise to change things if he wants to make the easyJet the best airline to work for.
The 6 on, 3 off roster is just too much. Most of the guys are knackered all the time.
If the company would change it to 5 on, 4 off or 4 on, 4 off that would allow crews to properly recover from flying 4 sector days. And the airline would still be able to get maximum hours out its work force. With the new European rules regarding maximum work hours looming (max 2000 hours per year), they will have to change their ways anyway.
Another reason for the fact that pilots want to go elsewhere is not because of pay (which is reasonable) but the very poor travel privileges for its employees. Even though flights are leaving with 10 or more empty seats, employees very often have to pay full fare to get on. A proper standby system for a nominal price would greatly enhance morale and would be a great retention tool as well. (A big money saver in fact!)
At the moment staff travel is viewed as a perk and not as part of standard terms and conditions. Succesful LowCost airlines, one of which easyJet tries to emulate, all provide superb travel privileges for example SouthWest, Jet Blue and even Ryanair.
CEO ray Webster said last year " I you want better staff travel, go join an airline that provides it" .
Well, a lot of guys are starting to do just that. With the job market starting to improve, easyJet might find itself being a training school that produces experienced jet pilots who are welcomed with open arms at Virgin, Brittania, Dragonair and the likes.
Lastly, the culture of blame and the lack of trust between the management and its pilots could be the third reason for people to leave.
When something goes wrong let's say a go-around is initiated due to a poorly executed visual approach, the response would not be: Good decision to go-around, guys!
Instead the response would be: Why did you do visual in the first place? At any one time some 7 or 8 pilots are suspended due to all kinds of disciplinaries. This is not good for morale and causes people to look elsewhere.
I hope the company will improve its self. If not, it will never become the employer of choice.
The orange future could be great but I think Ray Webster would be wise to change things if he wants to make the easyJet the best airline to work for.
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OOS:
If you're refering to the guys who went to NOW, none of them applied to go back to EZY. I haven't heard of any others lately who left to go to other outfits returning either.
The issue is entirely conditions related, not pay, and is solveable if the mgmt choose to fix the issues rather than run the company into the ground, but with comments from the CEO like "There will be no agreement with the pilots whilst I'm CEO", the outlook is not a bright shade of orange.
It must be remembered that these levels of resignations are not isolated, but happening every month. Resignations are approraching or even outstripping recruitment, and they haven't even started taking delivery of the A319s on the UK fleet yet (1 per week!).
If you're refering to the guys who went to NOW, none of them applied to go back to EZY. I haven't heard of any others lately who left to go to other outfits returning either.
The issue is entirely conditions related, not pay, and is solveable if the mgmt choose to fix the issues rather than run the company into the ground, but with comments from the CEO like "There will be no agreement with the pilots whilst I'm CEO", the outlook is not a bright shade of orange.
It must be remembered that these levels of resignations are not isolated, but happening every month. Resignations are approraching or even outstripping recruitment, and they haven't even started taking delivery of the A319s on the UK fleet yet (1 per week!).
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please tell me that it's not true, are you telling me that pilots have been suspended for making Go-arounds.?
There are lots of factors involved in making a landing and if anyone on the flightdeck is not happy to continue that approach then it should be thrown away. If you are saying that the management have suspended people for making a sound judgement call then surely this is a safety issue. Putting pressure on pilots to make landings against there better judgement is just asking for trouble. You should be onto your union about this mate.
As for doing a visual landing, if the situation is right why not 'go visual', sim's are all very well but flying highly automated planes means that you have to have someway to keep your handling skills up to scratch.... for when you need them.
There are lots of factors involved in making a landing and if anyone on the flightdeck is not happy to continue that approach then it should be thrown away. If you are saying that the management have suspended people for making a sound judgement call then surely this is a safety issue. Putting pressure on pilots to make landings against there better judgement is just asking for trouble. You should be onto your union about this mate.
As for doing a visual landing, if the situation is right why not 'go visual', sim's are all very well but flying highly automated planes means that you have to have someway to keep your handling skills up to scratch.... for when you need them.
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Have to say VSI bug is talking pooh.
None of the people I fly with talk about the staff travel issue as being of great importance, only a vocal minority on the union BALPA board.
As for their other points well I have to say exactly the opposite. I've had good back up from those above me in the pecking order.
However I agree with their points regarding 6 and 3, not an outfit you can see yourself working for until 60.
None of the people I fly with talk about the staff travel issue as being of great importance, only a vocal minority on the union BALPA board.
As for their other points well I have to say exactly the opposite. I've had good back up from those above me in the pecking order.
However I agree with their points regarding 6 and 3, not an outfit you can see yourself working for until 60.
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Just to correct a couple of points here:
No-one on the Balpa CC is making a big deal about staff travel.
It's a 'perk' that's currently pathetic, but it's way down the list of priorities.
No-one is suspended or even interviewed for doing a go round - that's complete nonsense.
IF IT WERE TRUE, the Balpa CC would know about it by now and would have addressed the issue.
FACT is, a go around is absoluely fine and the preferred and applauded decision over and above an unstable approach.
Agree completely about no-one wanting to stay till retirement...................why not join Balpa and help us try to turn that around?
There have been a number of resignations recently, mainly to Virgin. Hardly surprising but nonetheless disappointing.
That said, it's circa 30-40 out of 1000, so the ship's far from sinking.
No-one on the Balpa CC is making a big deal about staff travel.
It's a 'perk' that's currently pathetic, but it's way down the list of priorities.
No-one is suspended or even interviewed for doing a go round - that's complete nonsense.
IF IT WERE TRUE, the Balpa CC would know about it by now and would have addressed the issue.
FACT is, a go around is absoluely fine and the preferred and applauded decision over and above an unstable approach.
Agree completely about no-one wanting to stay till retirement...................why not join Balpa and help us try to turn that around?
There have been a number of resignations recently, mainly to Virgin. Hardly surprising but nonetheless disappointing.
That said, it's circa 30-40 out of 1000, so the ship's far from sinking.
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I did NOT say that pilots are suspended for making go-arounds.
What I meant to say is that the underlying theme from management often seems to be: If there is anything that a crew did wrong for that particular situation (e.g. such as making a poorly executed visual approach) fair chances are the crew in question are in trouble.
Also, whenever a report, complaint or issue is raised filed by anyone against a crew member, the company affords itself very little leeway to dismiss it but instead investigates it fully. Quite often the crew in question are taken of flying duties (and are effectively suspended) while a simple phone call to clarify things would suffice.
In case any of the easyJet drivers think that staff travel is a non-issue, please check out the staff travel forum on the easyJet employees website. This issue has reached such proportions now that is been brought to the attention of the board of directors by the moderator.
It would definitely provide a huge cost saving (less attrition of trained crew) in the long term if the company would provide decent travel arrangements for its crew, many of whom are living in other countries or SFO's who forced to get their command at other bases.
What I meant to say is that the underlying theme from management often seems to be: If there is anything that a crew did wrong for that particular situation (e.g. such as making a poorly executed visual approach) fair chances are the crew in question are in trouble.
Also, whenever a report, complaint or issue is raised filed by anyone against a crew member, the company affords itself very little leeway to dismiss it but instead investigates it fully. Quite often the crew in question are taken of flying duties (and are effectively suspended) while a simple phone call to clarify things would suffice.
In case any of the easyJet drivers think that staff travel is a non-issue, please check out the staff travel forum on the easyJet employees website. This issue has reached such proportions now that is been brought to the attention of the board of directors by the moderator.
It would definitely provide a huge cost saving (less attrition of trained crew) in the long term if the company would provide decent travel arrangements for its crew, many of whom are living in other countries or SFO's who forced to get their command at other bases.
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Scottie, why do you have to defend the indefensible? Are you EZY management? If staff travel is rubbish, it is rubbish regardless of what you say. And it IS a big issue to a lot of us, nothing is more annoying than to be stranded when there are 10-25 seats empty on the A/C. I tried many times to get staff travel and the prices were same as to the public! More than 100£ per sector; why would you pay for you own airline when they should carry you free as it is elswhere with other airlines? I have purchased recently twice British Airways tickets for my travel when EZY staff travel was not available. And yet on departure there were 20-25 seats empty, due to overbooking. In fact, we hardly ever carry the full 148 or 149 pax, there are always seats available. Stby wouchers would be the easiest thing to arrange, but yet EZY is not doing it. I think EZY CEO would have to be held accountable for this as it is one the issues which affect the performance of the airline causing poor moral and resignations. Also, the CEO has publicly stated that EZY is a people company, but the truth is excactly opposite. Can CEO be sued about misleading and lying? EZY do not give a toss about people, that has been proved thousands of times.
THIS IS THE ONLY AIRLINE THAT I KNOW, THAT DO NOT ALLOW STAFF TO TRAVEL WHEN THERE ARE EMPTY SEATS IN THE A/C!
THIS IS THE PEOPLE MANAGEMENT OF EASYJET!
Morale in a company affects all aspects of the operations. A significant number of resignations affect the bottom line but EZY have never admitted that, and they try to keep secret the number of resignations.
I suspect that the current state of affairs will carry on unless the EZY board and the major shareholder institutions are informed about the true state of the problems.
THIS IS THE ONLY AIRLINE THAT I KNOW, THAT DO NOT ALLOW STAFF TO TRAVEL WHEN THERE ARE EMPTY SEATS IN THE A/C!
THIS IS THE PEOPLE MANAGEMENT OF EASYJET!
Morale in a company affects all aspects of the operations. A significant number of resignations affect the bottom line but EZY have never admitted that, and they try to keep secret the number of resignations.
I suspect that the current state of affairs will carry on unless the EZY board and the major shareholder institutions are informed about the true state of the problems.
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If I had a pound for every post that had the easyJet pilot workforce leaving in droves I'd be a rich man and they would no longer be flying. The fact is, they continue to move ahead and grow, employing pilots by the hundreds and providing Commands at an impressive rate. Ok, there are a few issues to be resolved but with people like FlapsOne and the team working on it no doubt those issues will be resolved in time.
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As an ex orangeman(left seat),I can confirm that the only reason guys leave them is the c..p rostering,which leaves crews totally knackered after a 6on/2 off,24sector flight duty period.
Training is excellent,crews first class,but screwed to maximum.Had an instance of being called out from sby to operate last two sectors of another cpts duty,who had reported as fatigued.Transpired he was suspended and reported as "refusing to fly" and summoned for tea/biscuits with C.P.
Press would make a field day of this ,as we have seen inThe Times recently(acknowledgements to Wee Weasley Welshman).
" fatigued budget pilots etc".......................
Training is excellent,crews first class,but screwed to maximum.Had an instance of being called out from sby to operate last two sectors of another cpts duty,who had reported as fatigued.Transpired he was suspended and reported as "refusing to fly" and summoned for tea/biscuits with C.P.
Press would make a field day of this ,as we have seen inThe Times recently(acknowledgements to Wee Weasley Welshman).
" fatigued budget pilots etc".......................
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I just don't get it.
Why is easy Management unwilling to act on such a relatively simple issue as staff travel?
With all the IT whizzkids in the company, surely a simple electronic(!) voucher system with standby seats could be up and running in a matter of days.
Cost? Very little.
Benefit? Very big.
Because
- improved morale, crews willing to go the extra mile for the company and saving loads of money on disruption by willing to go into discretion
- lower attrition of quality pilots
- word of mouth will help with the hiring of experienced new guys to facilitate the ongoing expansion
Don't get me started on alll the petty things pilots and cabin crew are suspended or even fired over! It is a disgrace!
RW, I hope you will make some changes.
Why is easy Management unwilling to act on such a relatively simple issue as staff travel?
With all the IT whizzkids in the company, surely a simple electronic(!) voucher system with standby seats could be up and running in a matter of days.
Cost? Very little.
Benefit? Very big.
Because
- improved morale, crews willing to go the extra mile for the company and saving loads of money on disruption by willing to go into discretion
- lower attrition of quality pilots
- word of mouth will help with the hiring of experienced new guys to facilitate the ongoing expansion
Don't get me started on alll the petty things pilots and cabin crew are suspended or even fired over! It is a disgrace!
RW, I hope you will make some changes.
discretion! Please re-word your post there old chap. It reads as if it were I that caused The Times article rather than just noted it on this forum! Oh, is that Ray on the phone now...
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Transpired he was suspended and reported as "refusing to fly"
Believe me, its not a very pleasant thing to know inside a company. IMHO causes more damage than not having staff travel.
Happy Landings.
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Well having checked the intranet there are 55 posts from maybe 15 people max. Hardly an overwhelming figure from the 5,000(?) employees in easyJet.
Why do I defend the indefensible - well because in my experience the back up has been there when it was needed. Should I only comment on negative things and not the positives??? They're not perfect - far from it. But the scenarios being discussed on this thread relate to my experiences of eJ management.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
Carry you for free? easyJet runs a commercial operation. I'm quite happy letting the management concentrate on making money. There are other more pressing concerns which BALPA should be dealing with rather than with staff travel.
I remember being down the back half of a BA 757 in Prague on a standby ticket only to find the entire rear of the cabin was full of people on standby. It's a fair assumption that BA staff travel must cost them a lot and for what? They still have some of the grumpiest and militant employees in the industry. So improving morale? Maybe for a very short period, but thats all.
Why do I defend the indefensible - well because in my experience the back up has been there when it was needed. Should I only comment on negative things and not the positives??? They're not perfect - far from it. But the scenarios being discussed on this thread relate to my experiences of eJ management.
If staff travel is rubbish, it is rubbish regardless of what you say
Carry you for free? easyJet runs a commercial operation. I'm quite happy letting the management concentrate on making money. There are other more pressing concerns which BALPA should be dealing with rather than with staff travel.
I remember being down the back half of a BA 757 in Prague on a standby ticket only to find the entire rear of the cabin was full of people on standby. It's a fair assumption that BA staff travel must cost them a lot and for what? They still have some of the grumpiest and militant employees in the industry. So improving morale? Maybe for a very short period, but thats all.
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Staff travel is to the companys advantage after all if the seat is empty it is a 100% loss , if a staff member fills that seat atleast there is some revinue from it.
In short 10% of somthing is better than 100% of nothing to the company.
In short 10% of somthing is better than 100% of nothing to the company.
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The fact that only 15 people post regarding the staff travel issue on the easyJet intranet does not mean it only affects those 15 people.
Many employees including myself are reluctant to post on the intranet forum, possibly out of fear of p...ing off people in management?
You are only able to post under your real name. The end result is that only guys who are secure in their position and are positioned high on the easyJet food chain, or those who are simply desperate and don't care anymore if it causes personal repercussions post a reply.
Additionally, some people have the gift of writing very thought provoking posts that are not abrasive in nature and get the point across without appearing like a rant. For example the letter addressed to the easyJet staff travel computer.
When out on the line, I daily hear complaints especially from foreign (non-UK) crews who can not go to visit their loved ones and children, simply because they cannot afford 200 pounds for a round trip. This applies especially to cabin crew who are not making a lot of money.
With regards the BA 757 from Prague with the rear half full with employees on standby tickets, I would like to say the following:
Had these employees not travelled, the rear cabin would have been empty anyway, remember these employees are travelling on SBY tickets, meaning you can only get on the flight when the seats remain empty !!! as the check-in closes.
On most easyJet flights there will always be empty seats. What is wrong with employees taking these seats? The company would still get some revenue and it would actually positively affect the bottom line.
It is a shame that the Greek, Italian or Spanish cabin crew girls can only afford to visit their families back home once every 2 months or so simply because easyJet Management refuses to help its employees with a proper staff travel system.
Again, such a system could be up and running in a matter of a few days.
Many employees including myself are reluctant to post on the intranet forum, possibly out of fear of p...ing off people in management?
You are only able to post under your real name. The end result is that only guys who are secure in their position and are positioned high on the easyJet food chain, or those who are simply desperate and don't care anymore if it causes personal repercussions post a reply.
Additionally, some people have the gift of writing very thought provoking posts that are not abrasive in nature and get the point across without appearing like a rant. For example the letter addressed to the easyJet staff travel computer.
When out on the line, I daily hear complaints especially from foreign (non-UK) crews who can not go to visit their loved ones and children, simply because they cannot afford 200 pounds for a round trip. This applies especially to cabin crew who are not making a lot of money.
With regards the BA 757 from Prague with the rear half full with employees on standby tickets, I would like to say the following:
Had these employees not travelled, the rear cabin would have been empty anyway, remember these employees are travelling on SBY tickets, meaning you can only get on the flight when the seats remain empty !!! as the check-in closes.
On most easyJet flights there will always be empty seats. What is wrong with employees taking these seats? The company would still get some revenue and it would actually positively affect the bottom line.
It is a shame that the Greek, Italian or Spanish cabin crew girls can only afford to visit their families back home once every 2 months or so simply because easyJet Management refuses to help its employees with a proper staff travel system.
Again, such a system could be up and running in a matter of a few days.
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What a very bizarre attitude Easyjet management have with their staff! If the seats are unsold why shouldn't staff be allowed to travel on rebate fares? maybe they should look at how much revenue they are losing due to staff using competing carriers to complete their journeys? It all sounds a bit petty to me.
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OUTOFSYNCH: If you think "not leaving" equals "happy" then you MUST be in management! I'm fairly miserable at EZY, but changing job these days involves a massive decision, family disruption, relocation etc which i for one am not willing to undertake until after April, depending on the outcome of our negotiations. If EZY wants to continue abusing its staff after then, then maybe there will be a new post every few days on people leaving EZY with some higher figures than here......
In the meantime, FantasyLand managers reading this should be very proud of their up and coming role as a training organisation - particularly as in a couple of years most of the pilots will not be bonded for either 737 or A319!! How kind of you to provide the airline community with a few hundred fully type rated, unbonded pilots and then drive them all out of the door into the waiting arms of Virgin et al by treating them like cr@p! Good strategy!
In the meantime, FantasyLand managers reading this should be very proud of their up and coming role as a training organisation - particularly as in a couple of years most of the pilots will not be bonded for either 737 or A319!! How kind of you to provide the airline community with a few hundred fully type rated, unbonded pilots and then drive them all out of the door into the waiting arms of Virgin et al by treating them like cr@p! Good strategy!