People Leaving Ezy For Greener Pastures.
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I found the following very articulate post regarding the staff travel issue on the EJ intranet.
(author's name obviously deleted)
PEOPLE.
We are all wasting our time here. Having carefully read all the comments on this thread my understanding is that all the responsibility for staff travel in easyjet has been completely devolved to a computer.
I can sympathise with this.
The yield mangement computer can deal with staff travel at a very low cost base. It has a simple supply / demand fare structure built into its algorithm.
If I could discuss staff travel with the computer I would. I know I cannot.
I have therefore written a simple letter to the computer in the hope that somehow in binary code it will understand, if someone would be so good enough to translate for me......
Dear Computer,
It's hard to imagine we actually bat for the same side when you fleece me for over 240 euros to fly back from ALC at VERY short notice and I count 9 empty seats on the aeroplane.
I could regail you with my tale of woe but I suspect there are far worse.
I understand we all operate in a very tough environment with thin margins of profit, and I know every penny counts! But I would like to tell you a little bit about something I don't know whether your binary brain will understand - and that is my contract of goodwill with easyjet.
Easyjet is my livelihood (much like you perhaps), I believe in the business model and believe in the business. Perhaps I need to get out more, but there is almost nothing else I would rather be doing than than flying the orange website around for a living.
The contract of goodwill you ask? Here's how it works for me; accommodating crew on a flight that have to position somewhere to save big disruption. No bookings, no staff travel, just a call from crewing at the last minute. On the other hand, a captain prepared to accept me to travel on a last minute load sheet change to position and rescue a stranded aircraft. A Seat booked perhaps, but maybe the report time is only 30 minutes before departure. Perhaps accepting a change to my schedule that falls out side the crewing agreement because it is a time of disruption, or maybe I just feel I want to help eayjet out of a bind?
The contract of goodwill for me is not negotiable, please understand dear computer that I will always hold my end up because for me it is a matter of proffessional integrity as well as company survival.
But understand computer, the priviledge of staff travel is one of the few that we get. To pay through the nose for a flight with good availibilty leaves me wondering whether the contract of goodwill has been left by the wayside by you in a moment of greed.
(author's name obviously deleted)
PEOPLE.
We are all wasting our time here. Having carefully read all the comments on this thread my understanding is that all the responsibility for staff travel in easyjet has been completely devolved to a computer.
I can sympathise with this.
The yield mangement computer can deal with staff travel at a very low cost base. It has a simple supply / demand fare structure built into its algorithm.
If I could discuss staff travel with the computer I would. I know I cannot.
I have therefore written a simple letter to the computer in the hope that somehow in binary code it will understand, if someone would be so good enough to translate for me......
Dear Computer,
It's hard to imagine we actually bat for the same side when you fleece me for over 240 euros to fly back from ALC at VERY short notice and I count 9 empty seats on the aeroplane.
I could regail you with my tale of woe but I suspect there are far worse.
I understand we all operate in a very tough environment with thin margins of profit, and I know every penny counts! But I would like to tell you a little bit about something I don't know whether your binary brain will understand - and that is my contract of goodwill with easyjet.
Easyjet is my livelihood (much like you perhaps), I believe in the business model and believe in the business. Perhaps I need to get out more, but there is almost nothing else I would rather be doing than than flying the orange website around for a living.
The contract of goodwill you ask? Here's how it works for me; accommodating crew on a flight that have to position somewhere to save big disruption. No bookings, no staff travel, just a call from crewing at the last minute. On the other hand, a captain prepared to accept me to travel on a last minute load sheet change to position and rescue a stranded aircraft. A Seat booked perhaps, but maybe the report time is only 30 minutes before departure. Perhaps accepting a change to my schedule that falls out side the crewing agreement because it is a time of disruption, or maybe I just feel I want to help eayjet out of a bind?
The contract of goodwill for me is not negotiable, please understand dear computer that I will always hold my end up because for me it is a matter of proffessional integrity as well as company survival.
But understand computer, the priviledge of staff travel is one of the few that we get. To pay through the nose for a flight with good availibilty leaves me wondering whether the contract of goodwill has been left by the wayside by you in a moment of greed.
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Dear V2 +15, your letter to the Computer tells it all! The EZY management in all their arrogance, do not give s..t about the people. So why not give the responsibility to a Computer!
EZY management have not had the goodwill of the crews for a long time. The management pilots who have resigned EZY have given full blast regarding the frustration they had. I know hardly any who is willing to help company out on a situation which needs the use of discretion, radical change of roster etc. Why to bother, they certainly do not bother. They want their bonuses, that is all they want. We want our lives back, but at the moment we are not proggressing as long as RW is in charge. The disgrace of Staff Travel is the ultimate way of management to show us that they really do not care.
What a waste of words this is. They do not have a clue how to treat people, they ultimately lack business brains.
Apparently there is another 3 or 4 Virgin intakes coming up, so we probably lose some 60-80 pilots to Virgin alone this year. Is that good for EZY business? How much does it cost to employ so many trainers, have a huge trg department, pay CTC whatever is required, what about the instability that all this creates, what about the experience levels that are approaching all time low etc. Can all this be good for the business?
Why is it EZY that is always on the firing line? Would it appear here in PPRUNE always if it was well run company, treating people like Southwest?
Even Ryanair with all the problems they have do not have this level of discontent. And they earn at least £1000 more monthly doing the same job. That is a lot of money. And apparently they are happier, or should I say less unhappy than what we are. I understand we have lost a number of pilots from STN base to Ryanair, which is very easy to understand.
EZY management have not had the goodwill of the crews for a long time. The management pilots who have resigned EZY have given full blast regarding the frustration they had. I know hardly any who is willing to help company out on a situation which needs the use of discretion, radical change of roster etc. Why to bother, they certainly do not bother. They want their bonuses, that is all they want. We want our lives back, but at the moment we are not proggressing as long as RW is in charge. The disgrace of Staff Travel is the ultimate way of management to show us that they really do not care.
What a waste of words this is. They do not have a clue how to treat people, they ultimately lack business brains.
Apparently there is another 3 or 4 Virgin intakes coming up, so we probably lose some 60-80 pilots to Virgin alone this year. Is that good for EZY business? How much does it cost to employ so many trainers, have a huge trg department, pay CTC whatever is required, what about the instability that all this creates, what about the experience levels that are approaching all time low etc. Can all this be good for the business?
Why is it EZY that is always on the firing line? Would it appear here in PPRUNE always if it was well run company, treating people like Southwest?
Even Ryanair with all the problems they have do not have this level of discontent. And they earn at least £1000 more monthly doing the same job. That is a lot of money. And apparently they are happier, or should I say less unhappy than what we are. I understand we have lost a number of pilots from STN base to Ryanair, which is very easy to understand.
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I sure hope some guy in upper EZY management reads this threat and seriously talks to Ray Webster.
For example, why are JetBlue, SouthWest or even Ryanair such great places to work for? They bend backwards to accomodate its staff!!!
This is what I could pull off their respective websites:
JetBlue Flight Benefits
"You and your immediate family members are eligible for unlimited stand-by on JetBlue flights and passes on partner airlines. Your designated buddy or significant other may also be eligible."
SouthWest Passes/Travel Priveliges
"One of the special benefits of working at Southwest is flying free. Effective the first day of employment, Employees, spouses, eligible dependent children, and parents of Employees have unlimited space-available travel privileges on Southwest. Discounted travel arrangements with other carriers are also available through the Southwest Airlines Pass Bureau."
Ryanair employee travel
"Excellent Flight Benefits"
Remember, all these airlines depend highly on the internet and have an extremely low cost base.
Why would these three airlines, which in some ways are an example for easJet to emulate, provide excellent, standby travel to its employees?
Could it be great business sense?
A different approach to the biggest assets (the staff) will surely affect the bottom line and the crewing requirements in a positive way!!
To start treating the EZY staff in a proper way could make such a huge difference, that RW at end of 2004 could be in for a nice bonus on top of his 400K due to a dramatic drop in attrition among staff company wide.
If not easyJet will stay a training school due to high attrition rates
Board of directors, please talk Ray!!
For example, why are JetBlue, SouthWest or even Ryanair such great places to work for? They bend backwards to accomodate its staff!!!
This is what I could pull off their respective websites:
JetBlue Flight Benefits
"You and your immediate family members are eligible for unlimited stand-by on JetBlue flights and passes on partner airlines. Your designated buddy or significant other may also be eligible."
SouthWest Passes/Travel Priveliges
"One of the special benefits of working at Southwest is flying free. Effective the first day of employment, Employees, spouses, eligible dependent children, and parents of Employees have unlimited space-available travel privileges on Southwest. Discounted travel arrangements with other carriers are also available through the Southwest Airlines Pass Bureau."
Ryanair employee travel
"Excellent Flight Benefits"
Remember, all these airlines depend highly on the internet and have an extremely low cost base.
Why would these three airlines, which in some ways are an example for easJet to emulate, provide excellent, standby travel to its employees?
Could it be great business sense?
A different approach to the biggest assets (the staff) will surely affect the bottom line and the crewing requirements in a positive way!!
To start treating the EZY staff in a proper way could make such a huge difference, that RW at end of 2004 could be in for a nice bonus on top of his 400K due to a dramatic drop in attrition among staff company wide.
If not easyJet will stay a training school due to high attrition rates
Board of directors, please talk Ray!!
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Suggest you look at "tired budget jet pilots-endanger passengers" page 2 , my post and the one immediately after( John Farley-do a hover).
Johns friend is the new Chairman. I PMd John a couple of times suggesting that he speaks to his friend and that his friend should look at pprune. This is unlikely to have happened.
If things are getting worse ( and the best of luck to the Balpa C.C.) why not PM john ? If he gets enough "hits", he may speak to his friend who may then take a more active interest in what is or is not going on in easy.
John Farley .. my apologies in advance
Johns friend is the new Chairman. I PMd John a couple of times suggesting that he speaks to his friend and that his friend should look at pprune. This is unlikely to have happened.
If things are getting worse ( and the best of luck to the Balpa C.C.) why not PM john ? If he gets enough "hits", he may speak to his friend who may then take a more active interest in what is or is not going on in easy.
John Farley .. my apologies in advance
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Resignations is part of life with any company. EZ will face it stronger and stronger as the market is clearing up, just like any other airline apart from BA, LH and AF.
However, what I am sure about is that I would never leave my airline to join EZ because of the 6on/3off pace. This is just crazy and I want to live roughly as long as those managers who have set up that roster. And I have a family I want to spend time with instead of sleeping and lingering all day in order to make up for the exhaustion. So this one less CV they cannot exploit.
If EZ changes to 4/4 or even 4/3 (like at Ryanair I believe), I'll send them my CV immediately. Until then, I am not even considering...
Not that EZ is a bad airline. It's just that it's too much on a longer run.
What leaves me thoughtful is the amounts of energy and money spent to train pilots, advertise for jobs, interviewing again and again. Instead of making cheap savings on rosters, wouldn't it be nicer to keep people happy, not fearing they might just leave to test some other airline and come back to get extra training, etc...I think managers make that mistake in all airlines - not only at EZ - and they're making their airline waste awful amounts of money.
Just a thought.
However, what I am sure about is that I would never leave my airline to join EZ because of the 6on/3off pace. This is just crazy and I want to live roughly as long as those managers who have set up that roster. And I have a family I want to spend time with instead of sleeping and lingering all day in order to make up for the exhaustion. So this one less CV they cannot exploit.
If EZ changes to 4/4 or even 4/3 (like at Ryanair I believe), I'll send them my CV immediately. Until then, I am not even considering...
Not that EZ is a bad airline. It's just that it's too much on a longer run.
What leaves me thoughtful is the amounts of energy and money spent to train pilots, advertise for jobs, interviewing again and again. Instead of making cheap savings on rosters, wouldn't it be nicer to keep people happy, not fearing they might just leave to test some other airline and come back to get extra training, etc...I think managers make that mistake in all airlines - not only at EZ - and they're making their airline waste awful amounts of money.
Just a thought.
Grim Sleeper
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6 on 3 off, 7 on 2 off, or even, in extreme cases, operationally extended to 8 on - it says a lot for the professionalism and commitment of the crews that EZY's safety record is as good as it is.
Obviously the company culture is extremely set against anyone trying to use fatigue as an excuse not to operate - if i hear the words "it's legal" from the crewing dept one more time there will be a massacre.......
"Legal" under CAP371 is one thing - sensible over 6 four-sector days is quite another! When will EZY realise that they would have a stampede to their door if it weren't for their sh1tty rostering??
Obviously the company culture is extremely set against anyone trying to use fatigue as an excuse not to operate - if i hear the words "it's legal" from the crewing dept one more time there will be a massacre.......
"Legal" under CAP371 is one thing - sensible over 6 four-sector days is quite another! When will EZY realise that they would have a stampede to their door if it weren't for their sh1tty rostering??
Last edited by Slim20; 2nd Mar 2004 at 20:44.
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Glad to see that orange is really the same sort of murky brown that the rest of us live with.
The reality is that the accountants dont see benefits that arent readily identifiable as pounds and pence. You're call for a reasonable staff travel policy is just another staff cost as far as they're concerned.
My employer went through similar convulsions following mass resignations in the mid 90's. Wasnt until someone gave the finance people a figure for increased training costs that a scheduling agreement appeared.
Pity about your rosters. Would have been interested in joining you but worked a 6/3 multi sector pattern in a previous life, added 10 years to me.
The reality is that the accountants dont see benefits that arent readily identifiable as pounds and pence. You're call for a reasonable staff travel policy is just another staff cost as far as they're concerned.
My employer went through similar convulsions following mass resignations in the mid 90's. Wasnt until someone gave the finance people a figure for increased training costs that a scheduling agreement appeared.
Pity about your rosters. Would have been interested in joining you but worked a 6/3 multi sector pattern in a previous life, added 10 years to me.
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Could any of the Ryanair guys please explain what kind of staff travel Ryanair provides for its hard working crews?
Maybe this could give Management at easyLand a good benchmark with regards to staff travel.
They keep saying they want easyJet to be the best low cost airline....
Many thanks!
VSI Bug
Maybe this could give Management at easyLand a good benchmark with regards to staff travel.
They keep saying they want easyJet to be the best low cost airline....
Many thanks!
VSI Bug
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I dont agree with the vast majority of the easyJet bashing that goes on. However, I'm utterly GOBSMACKED how tiny things can cloud intelligent professionals from the real issues.
Dont lose the big picture!
Staff Travel is not the issue!
Money is not the issue!
Its LIFESTYLE!!!
Ive just done
Tues 4 Wed 4 Thurs 4 Fri 6 Sat 4 Sun sby Mon DO Tues 4
This is not sustainable in the medium term never mind the long term!
EasyJet management are far too busy putting out THE FIRES (mainly of their own creation) to even CONSIDER ANY PROACTIVE FIRE PREVENTION.
Goodwill, loyalty, devotion to duty; are old fashioned words & phrases these days.
STAY FOCUSSED! There are now ONE THOUSAND OF US!
Mind you I could be wrong!
Dont lose the big picture!
Staff Travel is not the issue!
Money is not the issue!
Its LIFESTYLE!!!
Ive just done
Tues 4 Wed 4 Thurs 4 Fri 6 Sat 4 Sun sby Mon DO Tues 4
This is not sustainable in the medium term never mind the long term!
EasyJet management are far too busy putting out THE FIRES (mainly of their own creation) to even CONSIDER ANY PROACTIVE FIRE PREVENTION.
Goodwill, loyalty, devotion to duty; are old fashioned words & phrases these days.
STAY FOCUSSED! There are now ONE THOUSAND OF US!
Mind you I could be wrong!
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Tabasco Kid. I agree wholeheartedly with what you say but the apathy among our colleagues is strong.
I flew with someone the other day who showed me his BALPA membership form already signed just not dated, "if you guys vote for action I'll join immediately" were his words.
Another colleague asked why we need BALPA and not a pilots council which worked well in his old company. For
sake these people are either tight, stupid or both.
Loungelizard summed it up on the thread about Emirates when he said:
How true.
I flew with someone the other day who showed me his BALPA membership form already signed just not dated, "if you guys vote for action I'll join immediately" were his words.
Another colleague asked why we need BALPA and not a pilots council which worked well in his old company. For
sake these people are either tight, stupid or both.Loungelizard summed it up on the thread about Emirates when he said:
Pilot's are known to be a weak and gutless mob when it comes to joining together and enforce change.
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Dragon501. If you have to commute that's a personal decision. Nobody is forcing you to do it.
You're paid an adequate wage to allow you to settle near your base. Nature of the job I'm afraid.
If you're commuting so you don't have to move your family then you'll probably be off to a job nearer home as soon as vacancies exist.
You choose to commute, that's up to you, but we're all under 6&3/7&2. That is the more important issue.
You're paid an adequate wage to allow you to settle near your base. Nature of the job I'm afraid.
If you're commuting so you don't have to move your family then you'll probably be off to a job nearer home as soon as vacancies exist.
You choose to commute, that's up to you, but we're all under 6&3/7&2. That is the more important issue.
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Scottie - if EZY closed your base down next month (which they can and probably will if you are East Mids based!) I'd like to know if your opinion changes. Very easy to pontificate about living near a base if you made a convenient switch to LTN or LGW and never had to face the massive lifestyle issue of relocating.
Fact of the matter - EZY has worked very hard trying to recruit pilots and cabin crew from across Europe to sustain its phenomenal growth rate. I imagine part of the hard sell was the promise of cheap travel to and from home, be it Holland, Belgium or italy. Try just upping and leaving your country to go and live near your base - it's tremendously disruptive and requires a lot of guts, determination and a fair bit of desperation!
I trust you will be a bit more respectful of our colleagues who have had to take this step and deserve better treatment because of it.
Fact of the matter - EZY has worked very hard trying to recruit pilots and cabin crew from across Europe to sustain its phenomenal growth rate. I imagine part of the hard sell was the promise of cheap travel to and from home, be it Holland, Belgium or italy. Try just upping and leaving your country to go and live near your base - it's tremendously disruptive and requires a lot of guts, determination and a fair bit of desperation!
I trust you will be a bit more respectful of our colleagues who have had to take this step and deserve better treatment because of it.
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Slim20- Good Point RE Scottie.
Scottie; Lots of people in easyJet don't get their commands at their base of choice have to commute home on days off. Not much fun driving the length of the country to see young ones or pay the £100+ ticket.
Clearly Staff Travel is an issue.
So when are BALPA going to tell us what's going on with the T&Cs?
Any NON members should Join now if you want a VOICE and a LIFESTYLE. Don't sit back waiting for others to do the dirty work!
Scottie; Lots of people in easyJet don't get their commands at their base of choice have to commute home on days off. Not much fun driving the length of the country to see young ones or pay the £100+ ticket.
Clearly Staff Travel is an issue.
So when are BALPA going to tell us what's going on with the T&Cs?
Any NON members should Join now if you want a VOICE and a LIFESTYLE. Don't sit back waiting for others to do the dirty work!
Grim Sleeper
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Yeah - come on fence-sitters! Instead of saying "I'll join Balpa if they get us a good deal" just join up now for three months and help us GET a good deal!!!
I do agree on one principle with Scottie and Tabasco Kid on staff travel - I don't think staff travel should be a part of the pay neg's anyway. It was promised to all of us throughout the entire company when we joined - it is not just a pilot issue. But if I was a cynical person I'd say EZY were deliberately disrupting staff travel in order to provide a contentious red herring to split the workforce - as they did with crew food last year.
At the very least it is one clear example of how little the company is remotely interested in us, and the end result of this attitude is the bullsh!t we have to endure every 17th of the month when we see what horrors we've been dished on our next months roster.
LET'S KEEP THE SOLIDARITY GUYS - THE #1 ISSUE HAS TO BE LIFESTYLE, THAT MEANS ROSTERING!!
I do agree on one principle with Scottie and Tabasco Kid on staff travel - I don't think staff travel should be a part of the pay neg's anyway. It was promised to all of us throughout the entire company when we joined - it is not just a pilot issue. But if I was a cynical person I'd say EZY were deliberately disrupting staff travel in order to provide a contentious red herring to split the workforce - as they did with crew food last year.
At the very least it is one clear example of how little the company is remotely interested in us, and the end result of this attitude is the bullsh!t we have to endure every 17th of the month when we see what horrors we've been dished on our next months roster.
LET'S KEEP THE SOLIDARITY GUYS - THE #1 ISSUE HAS TO BE LIFESTYLE, THAT MEANS ROSTERING!!