Emirates Direct Entry Commands (merged)
DIRECTOR
Join Date: Jan 2001
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High Cirrus Looking through your posts I see you accurately forcast the salary being offered by EK!! You seem to know more about what is going on in EK than those in the company!!
Rev Dr D Yes it would be 'ironic! but it is all about !Economics! and Timescales. Any experienced A340/330/320 Captain worth his salt even without Long Haul Experience can be on Line earning his keep in a very short time thus avoiding what must be a nightmare training problem brewing for EK.
As far as Long Haul experience. A lot of nonsense is talked about this. It is not as if EK as yet go across the Pacific/North Atlantic/Wastes of Siberia. Provided EK produce good en route briefing sheets I can see this not being a problem.
Now that A320 Captains can now apply then the Ball Game changes entirely.Applications will flow in from all around the World.
What price Qatar Airways now getting their Pilots?? Who would want to join QR instead of EK???
Rev Dr D Yes it would be 'ironic! but it is all about !Economics! and Timescales. Any experienced A340/330/320 Captain worth his salt even without Long Haul Experience can be on Line earning his keep in a very short time thus avoiding what must be a nightmare training problem brewing for EK.
As far as Long Haul experience. A lot of nonsense is talked about this. It is not as if EK as yet go across the Pacific/North Atlantic/Wastes of Siberia. Provided EK produce good en route briefing sheets I can see this not being a problem.
Now that A320 Captains can now apply then the Ball Game changes entirely.Applications will flow in from all around the World.
What price Qatar Airways now getting their Pilots?? Who would want to join QR instead of EK???
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Rev Dr Doug,
From my perspective (and suspect from EK's perspective as well) the so called Captain qualified first officers joined as....well, first officers, regardless of their past qualifications.
Very foolish that...as it turns out now, don't you think?
Received very good advice early in my career...join at the position that you expect to achieve, and accept nothing else.
If one joins a company moving sideways...expect to be sidelined, if comittments are not kept, and many times they are not.
From my perspective (and suspect from EK's perspective as well) the so called Captain qualified first officers joined as....well, first officers, regardless of their past qualifications.
Very foolish that...as it turns out now, don't you think?
Received very good advice early in my career...join at the position that you expect to achieve, and accept nothing else.
If one joins a company moving sideways...expect to be sidelined, if comittments are not kept, and many times they are not.
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It would seem that the package offered by EK is not as good as many had hoped for. There is a contract out there - I have a copy in my hand - where the airline in question is asking for the same rating but pays USD9000/month + housing and transportation. I suspect the two airlines will be competing for the same pilots, even though the contract position is time limited and the EK job would appear to be long term. However,with only a few miles between the two home bases it will be an interesting fight!
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411A
I know what you are getting at, and given the world of expat pilots, it is not an unreasonable position. I can say though, as someone in the company, not one pilot has been bought out here just to be an F/O, at least that was the position of the recuruiting department when we all came for interviews.
The recruitment line was always that "we only recruit experienced pilots to be EK F/O's, because we need them to be able to move to the LHS asap"
Now to be fair, I was never under the illusion that they would honor any agreement, should they feel the need to change to suit the bigger picture. However, EK on one side is trying to turn itself into a professional outfit, with "industry leading" CRM programs, hi-tech aircraft and training centres and all the other bells and whistles that most airlines aspire to. Whilst on the other hand it is p*ssing off its staff deluxe.
I have a feeling that these two management aspects are incompatible over the longer term. But as we all know, the market will be the decider.
It is interesting to note though, that none of this is new. It all happened exactly 3 years ago. Then,as now, it was all aired on Pprune.
It would appear that few of the F/O's who have joined since then actually heeded the warnings that were provided in much detail. So it can be said that they either walked knowingly into the position they now find themselves, or they did not carry out due dilligence on the position they applied for.
I can say without hesitation that I have tried to provide a fair and balanced view of EK over the last couple of years. Only to be accused of being a whinger etc, etc. Well, I am not whinging now, but I bet a few of my acusers are.
Cop U Later
The Rev
I know what you are getting at, and given the world of expat pilots, it is not an unreasonable position. I can say though, as someone in the company, not one pilot has been bought out here just to be an F/O, at least that was the position of the recuruiting department when we all came for interviews.
The recruitment line was always that "we only recruit experienced pilots to be EK F/O's, because we need them to be able to move to the LHS asap"
Now to be fair, I was never under the illusion that they would honor any agreement, should they feel the need to change to suit the bigger picture. However, EK on one side is trying to turn itself into a professional outfit, with "industry leading" CRM programs, hi-tech aircraft and training centres and all the other bells and whistles that most airlines aspire to. Whilst on the other hand it is p*ssing off its staff deluxe.
I have a feeling that these two management aspects are incompatible over the longer term. But as we all know, the market will be the decider.
It is interesting to note though, that none of this is new. It all happened exactly 3 years ago. Then,as now, it was all aired on Pprune.
It would appear that few of the F/O's who have joined since then actually heeded the warnings that were provided in much detail. So it can be said that they either walked knowingly into the position they now find themselves, or they did not carry out due dilligence on the position they applied for.
I can say without hesitation that I have tried to provide a fair and balanced view of EK over the last couple of years. Only to be accused of being a whinger etc, etc. Well, I am not whinging now, but I bet a few of my acusers are.
Cop U Later
The Rev
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From the EK web site:
EMPLOYMENT PACKAGES
CAPTAIN SALARY:
Monthly Salary
Starting Salary is Dhs 23,920 and is reviewed annually with eligibility for step increases within scale. (1 US$ = 3.66 UAE Dirhams). The salary is Tax Free.
Productivity Pay
For each credit hour above approximately 84 hours, an additional Dhs 400.
Does “eligibility for step increases within scale” mean that EK management has the flexibility to take in DE Captains higher up the increment scale so as to snatch worthy aspirants from the likes of CAL etc?
What does the sentence under Productivity Pay exactly mean?
EMPLOYMENT PACKAGES
CAPTAIN SALARY:
Monthly Salary
Starting Salary is Dhs 23,920 and is reviewed annually with eligibility for step increases within scale. (1 US$ = 3.66 UAE Dirhams). The salary is Tax Free.
Productivity Pay
For each credit hour above approximately 84 hours, an additional Dhs 400.
Does “eligibility for step increases within scale” mean that EK management has the flexibility to take in DE Captains higher up the increment scale so as to snatch worthy aspirants from the likes of CAL etc?
What does the sentence under Productivity Pay exactly mean?
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Heres a link you might be interested in with regards to changes in Dubai labour law
http://66.234.3.46/Displayarticle.as...ptember323.xml
http://66.234.3.46/Displayarticle.as...ptember323.xml
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Reverend Doctor Doug
Absolutely correct, which is why I’ve drawn attention to the excess and needless venom displayed by Pontious towards millerscourt. Perhaps he’ll now moderate his rant style and even stick to the thread’s theme.
Of which, I’m pleased to note that I’ve not felt it similarly necessary to draw attention to the insulting and knee jerk reactions to any post by 411A. It’s interesting to see that as the thread has developed, antipathy has progressively dissipated as realization of his knowledge, foresight and contribution has overcome a prejudice built up over time, only by his style, rather than content of his posts.
Yes, let’s further the topic(s) in hand rather than descend to needless and vicarious personal attacks.
Absolutely correct, which is why I’ve drawn attention to the excess and needless venom displayed by Pontious towards millerscourt. Perhaps he’ll now moderate his rant style and even stick to the thread’s theme.
Of which, I’m pleased to note that I’ve not felt it similarly necessary to draw attention to the insulting and knee jerk reactions to any post by 411A. It’s interesting to see that as the thread has developed, antipathy has progressively dissipated as realization of his knowledge, foresight and contribution has overcome a prejudice built up over time, only by his style, rather than content of his posts.
Yes, let’s further the topic(s) in hand rather than descend to needless and vicarious personal attacks.
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At the beginning of this thread, mention was made as follows:
“……aircraft (the A340-300's) have a few peculiarities which would mean a substantial investment to get them in line with the rest of the EK Airbus fleet.”
There doesn’t seem to have been much subsequent mention of this aspect of the deal, so presumably it has not proved to be an insurmountable problem?
“……aircraft (the A340-300's) have a few peculiarities which would mean a substantial investment to get them in line with the rest of the EK Airbus fleet.”
There doesn’t seem to have been much subsequent mention of this aspect of the deal, so presumably it has not proved to be an insurmountable problem?
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180 posts and fading fast, how about tis then.
My current application for ek f/o job seems to have stalled. Under the new coditions though i can apply as a skipper, i meet all the requirements. How does that work then.
Your Bird major
My current application for ek f/o job seems to have stalled. Under the new coditions though i can apply as a skipper, i meet all the requirements. How does that work then.
Your Bird major
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Rather good luck on your part FFlaps, but will certainly not make the present First Officers happy.
But then again, you apparently have the experience,and in the end, that is what counts.
Good luck.
But then again, you apparently have the experience,and in the end, that is what counts.
Good luck.
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MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS
Requirements for Position of Direct Entry Captain
A minimum of 10,000 hours total flying time
A minimum of 3,000 hours in command of multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft in excess of 55,000 KGS MTOW
Preference for short listing will be given to A340/A330 rated pilots and those with wide body experience. A background in training would also be advantageous.
ICAO ATPL
Applicants must be less than 56 years on joining
Experience commensurate with age
..............................................
That means 3000 hours 737-400 is good enough for DEC with Emirates....on top of ie 7000 hours Cessna Caravan. Like it or not . Its their planes. Their rules. Good there are some experiences FO's to help them....
No matter what the intent of the requirements. It is the written word that counts.
Requirements for Position of Direct Entry Captain
A minimum of 10,000 hours total flying time
A minimum of 3,000 hours in command of multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft in excess of 55,000 KGS MTOW
Preference for short listing will be given to A340/A330 rated pilots and those with wide body experience. A background in training would also be advantageous.
ICAO ATPL
Applicants must be less than 56 years on joining
Experience commensurate with age
..............................................
That means 3000 hours 737-400 is good enough for DEC with Emirates....on top of ie 7000 hours Cessna Caravan. Like it or not . Its their planes. Their rules. Good there are some experiences FO's to help them....
No matter what the intent of the requirements. It is the written word that counts.
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The word going around here in SIN is that the EK DFO will be in town next week, to conduct interviews for DE captains. SQ hierarchy believe that 30+ captains will be taken on by EK this year and 50+ beginning of next year.
Be interesting to see what the SQ attitude to all this will be.
Be interesting to see what the SQ attitude to all this will be.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Very interesting if highcirrus is correct because why is the DFO doing the interviews?
At the very least you would expect DECs to have to jump through the hoops for 3 days like everyone else
I can only assume (and hope) it would be initial interviews before the normal set up in DXB.
However, having been told by a CC trainer that they have been told to pass all trainees 'cos we are so short of staff, nothing would suprise me
At the very least you would expect DECs to have to jump through the hoops for 3 days like everyone else
I can only assume (and hope) it would be initial interviews before the normal set up in DXB.
However, having been told by a CC trainer that they have been told to pass all trainees 'cos we are so short of staff, nothing would suprise me
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I understand that this arrangement has been chosen as it’s easier for one guy (or a small team?) to come over to SIN rather than have a full blown invasion of 30+ DE aspirants descend on DXB in a very compressed time scale. Don’t have any info on whether a single interview plus acceptable track record will ensure entry to EK or whether the interviews are to screen likely candidates for the full works later on in DXB.
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Seems plausible but if that is the case then 'oh how the mighty have fallen'.
It would make all the work of the recruitment team look like wasted time and effort.
I don't have a problem flying with DECs (athough I don't like the fact that it's happening) but a free pass (by comparison) would be a real kick in the flaps
Time will tell.
It would make all the work of the recruitment team look like wasted time and effort.
I don't have a problem flying with DECs (athough I don't like the fact that it's happening) but a free pass (by comparison) would be a real kick in the flaps
Time will tell.
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The last few posts would indicate that the topic will descend into "well i had to do all this selection so everyone else should as well".
A bit like "i had to do a lot of exams for my atpl so should the rest of the world or they can't be as good as me" syndrome.
Most new companies (ek, easy, etc) are started by people who first recruit their friends and known quantities. Once they have enough to start up they begin to build their empires. The first stage is to impose ridiculous hr recruitment processes (easy is the best example) effectively raising the draw bridge behind them.Some of the start up types (that i have met)wouldnt have the interpersonnal skills to get in the SS never mind the pass a group exercise.
In the case of emirates if they choose to recruit from all over the world then it may serve a valid purpose to weed out the licence holders with no knowledge, or such knowledge as obtained by selective shopping.
However the fact that they may by pass this proceedure to suit their own ends just goes to show that it was (or is) a pretentious load of sh1t.
If they do bypass it , then those who went through the selection have been taken for a ride in a sysytem set up in part to gloryfy the empire of the original expat founders (managers).
Tough.
Personnally where at all possible i try avoid any company with such proceedures as i have proved my academic, flying and social skills to the relevant authorities, companies and people.
I was however willing to submit to the emirates interview in order to live with a bunch of friends. Now it seems i may not have to. Oh Dear better keep my head down to avoid all the toys getting launched
You pays yer money you takes yer chances.
PS can anyone speculate if the early manangers at ek have a similar early background to the ones at easy. Just a conspiracy theory.
phew, where did that come from.
your bird major
A bit like "i had to do a lot of exams for my atpl so should the rest of the world or they can't be as good as me" syndrome.
Most new companies (ek, easy, etc) are started by people who first recruit their friends and known quantities. Once they have enough to start up they begin to build their empires. The first stage is to impose ridiculous hr recruitment processes (easy is the best example) effectively raising the draw bridge behind them.Some of the start up types (that i have met)wouldnt have the interpersonnal skills to get in the SS never mind the pass a group exercise.
In the case of emirates if they choose to recruit from all over the world then it may serve a valid purpose to weed out the licence holders with no knowledge, or such knowledge as obtained by selective shopping.
However the fact that they may by pass this proceedure to suit their own ends just goes to show that it was (or is) a pretentious load of sh1t.
If they do bypass it , then those who went through the selection have been taken for a ride in a sysytem set up in part to gloryfy the empire of the original expat founders (managers).
Tough.
Personnally where at all possible i try avoid any company with such proceedures as i have proved my academic, flying and social skills to the relevant authorities, companies and people.
I was however willing to submit to the emirates interview in order to live with a bunch of friends. Now it seems i may not have to. Oh Dear better keep my head down to avoid all the toys getting launched
You pays yer money you takes yer chances.
PS can anyone speculate if the early manangers at ek have a similar early background to the ones at easy. Just a conspiracy theory.
phew, where did that come from.
your bird major