Emirates Direct Entry Commands (merged)
I thought I wouldn't order a Personal Title to help offset the many thousands of pounds a month it costs to run PPRuNe. Nah... I'll just sit here and moan about it.
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As an Emirates F/O a quick couple of points.
I am one of many ex captains now working for Emirates, waiting for my turn for command. I agree with the company to hire DE Capts for the forseeable future to benefit all the employees in the company (profit share and all that)
However, yes I agree that a lot of us are ex widebody Captains and could possibly already qualify for these positions looking at our previous experience. However, get the jets in, get them crewed and get the company flying the routes. With the vast number of aircraft inbound in the near future there will be commands for all F/O's waiting at present. To sign the new DE Capts on a short term 3 to 5 year lease would be my vote, until such a time that we get all of us F/O's converted back to the left seat. Of course it will take a little time as the company needs to re-fill the right seat, we all agreed to the terms before we joined, accept it.
Regarding the reason to have joined Emirates, from say a UK salary point of view even here as an F/O things aren't at all bad.
In Dirhams per annum
Salary in 1st year 17250 x 12 = 207000
Housing paid for = 100000
Utilities paid for = 15000
3 children private education = 71000
Provident fund contribution = 25000
Private health = a benefit I wont put a price on
Loss of license = a benefit again
Free transport to from work = 10000
Down route allowances = Good beer money ( not counted)
I could go on, death insurance, interest free loan, free and subsidised travel etc, etc get my point.
So added up = 428000Dhms / 5.9 = 72542 UK Pounds Tax free !!
Oh yes recently the company paid out 8 weeks profit share of 34500 + monthly salary of 17250 = 51750Dhms or 8772 UK pounds TAX FREE for a first year F/O ( in the profit share). Not only that it looks like next years profit share is going to be even better, lets hope.
It's not so bad and at times its great not having everyone bitching that they are going to go to the union rep and Blaahh Blaahh Blaahh.
411a, words just wont say it for me!
Cheers
I am one of many ex captains now working for Emirates, waiting for my turn for command. I agree with the company to hire DE Capts for the forseeable future to benefit all the employees in the company (profit share and all that)
However, yes I agree that a lot of us are ex widebody Captains and could possibly already qualify for these positions looking at our previous experience. However, get the jets in, get them crewed and get the company flying the routes. With the vast number of aircraft inbound in the near future there will be commands for all F/O's waiting at present. To sign the new DE Capts on a short term 3 to 5 year lease would be my vote, until such a time that we get all of us F/O's converted back to the left seat. Of course it will take a little time as the company needs to re-fill the right seat, we all agreed to the terms before we joined, accept it.
Regarding the reason to have joined Emirates, from say a UK salary point of view even here as an F/O things aren't at all bad.
In Dirhams per annum
Salary in 1st year 17250 x 12 = 207000
Housing paid for = 100000
Utilities paid for = 15000
3 children private education = 71000
Provident fund contribution = 25000
Private health = a benefit I wont put a price on
Loss of license = a benefit again
Free transport to from work = 10000
Down route allowances = Good beer money ( not counted)
I could go on, death insurance, interest free loan, free and subsidised travel etc, etc get my point.
So added up = 428000Dhms / 5.9 = 72542 UK Pounds Tax free !!
Oh yes recently the company paid out 8 weeks profit share of 34500 + monthly salary of 17250 = 51750Dhms or 8772 UK pounds TAX FREE for a first year F/O ( in the profit share). Not only that it looks like next years profit share is going to be even better, lets hope.
It's not so bad and at times its great not having everyone bitching that they are going to go to the union rep and Blaahh Blaahh Blaahh.
411a, words just wont say it for me!
Cheers
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GO DIRECT
You forgot to mention the Currency fluctuation protection, state pension (albeit minimalist) back up in case the contributory one goes tits-up, EPC card benefits etc.....etc....I have 26 years to go until retirement, this job will do me just fine! By the way, have you noticed that this topic hasn't even featured on the EK Pilot's Forum?
Maxalt, mi ald China
When did you get your rejection letter?
You forgot to mention the Currency fluctuation protection, state pension (albeit minimalist) back up in case the contributory one goes tits-up, EPC card benefits etc.....etc....I have 26 years to go until retirement, this job will do me just fine! By the way, have you noticed that this topic hasn't even featured on the EK Pilot's Forum?
Maxalt, mi ald China
When did you get your rejection letter?
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GO DIRECT - I'm right with you on what you say !!!
Also remember folks, it's not just the money or the flying but the LIFESTYLE...For the few people who have accused me of wearing "rose tinted specs" in the past - well, my family and I are having a great time here STILL.
The commands will roll around pretty quickly whatever happens.
Also remember folks, it's not just the money or the flying but the LIFESTYLE...For the few people who have accused me of wearing "rose tinted specs" in the past - well, my family and I are having a great time here STILL.
The commands will roll around pretty quickly whatever happens.
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No one's mentioned the most likely source of most of these current A340 DECs. Could it be from a place whose name might sound like a combination of the noise of bleating lambs and precipitation?
...and could most of them go by the name of "Al"?
...and could most of them go by the name of "Al"?
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Speedbrake, please drop the patronising tone.
No one (or at least not I) is claiming to have a better or worse job than anyone else, or indeed be living in Utopia. I simply saw fit to add some balance to Dropp the Pilot's comments on life at Ryanair. That is all.
Now the balance has been addressed, let us continue with the more interesting topic at hand.
No one (or at least not I) is claiming to have a better or worse job than anyone else, or indeed be living in Utopia. I simply saw fit to add some balance to Dropp the Pilot's comments on life at Ryanair. That is all.
Now the balance has been addressed, let us continue with the more interesting topic at hand.
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That would be a first on PPRuNe AJ !!
No....let me digress further.....
Pontius, I actually did give them a go once. Did the interviews, the sim, played with the construction set...etc. Got offerred the job. I then went home and thought about it and ultimately decided that they had nothing to offer that wouldn't come to me right here at home. And I didn't fancy having my sleep disturbed by wailing every morning and night either. I thanked them and politely declined.
Glad I did too because it turned out exactly as planned and I'm quite happy where I am now.
Go Direct, the money is no doubt very good, but it would have to be to make me drop back to the RHS. And it would also have to be in order to make me wanna live in the ME right now. I'd call it 'danger money'. The 'Provident Fund'? Don't rely on that for retirement mate. I hope you're salting away a lot of that 'untaxed' income. You'll be needing it later.
The free housing thing is an interesting topic. I like being able to choose where I live. In EK you get shown your cell and told like it or lump it. The singles are accomodated in anonymous tower block appartments. Thats not for me mate.
The marrieds were being driven demented by their competitive wives..." how come Jilly and Jonny got a bigger/nicer/newer house than we did" etc etc.
Nice way to start a new career.
Also the schools and medical benefits have come in for serious stick on this board in the past. Do the searches.
The old WX thing....Speedbrake, dontcha know us Paddys can't take the sun. Sensitive Irish skin y'know.
What are you anyway? A feckin lizard?
No....let me digress further.....
Pontius, I actually did give them a go once. Did the interviews, the sim, played with the construction set...etc. Got offerred the job. I then went home and thought about it and ultimately decided that they had nothing to offer that wouldn't come to me right here at home. And I didn't fancy having my sleep disturbed by wailing every morning and night either. I thanked them and politely declined.
Glad I did too because it turned out exactly as planned and I'm quite happy where I am now.
Go Direct, the money is no doubt very good, but it would have to be to make me drop back to the RHS. And it would also have to be in order to make me wanna live in the ME right now. I'd call it 'danger money'. The 'Provident Fund'? Don't rely on that for retirement mate. I hope you're salting away a lot of that 'untaxed' income. You'll be needing it later.
The free housing thing is an interesting topic. I like being able to choose where I live. In EK you get shown your cell and told like it or lump it. The singles are accomodated in anonymous tower block appartments. Thats not for me mate.
The marrieds were being driven demented by their competitive wives..." how come Jilly and Jonny got a bigger/nicer/newer house than we did" etc etc.
Nice way to start a new career.
Also the schools and medical benefits have come in for serious stick on this board in the past. Do the searches.
The old WX thing....Speedbrake, dontcha know us Paddys can't take the sun. Sensitive Irish skin y'know.
What are you anyway? A feckin lizard?
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 13th Sep 2003 at 18:18.
maxalt....
maxgrossgeneralization.
Your claims are vague, general and broadly based on someones opinion, and l am guessing that they are probably not yours.
l am glad you enjoy Ryanair.
l enjoy the lifestyle here, even if my competative wife in our lump it or leave it cell loves it here too. Lucky, as otherwise l would have to take the housing allowance and find my own place to live.
You sound like you have friends here who are not too happy with their decision on coming here. (Sounds like my neighbour.)
Someone living in Ireland reckons Dubai is dangerous? Hmmmm
halas
maxgrossgeneralization.
Your claims are vague, general and broadly based on someones opinion, and l am guessing that they are probably not yours.
l am glad you enjoy Ryanair.
l enjoy the lifestyle here, even if my competative wife in our lump it or leave it cell loves it here too. Lucky, as otherwise l would have to take the housing allowance and find my own place to live.
You sound like you have friends here who are not too happy with their decision on coming here. (Sounds like my neighbour.)
Someone living in Ireland reckons Dubai is dangerous? Hmmmm
halas
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....not too happy with their decision on coming here.(Sounds like my neighbour.)
Sure, it's horses for courses. I bet the majority of EK'ers love it. But a little injection of balance is worthwhile, don'tcha think?
It ain't paradise.
Yes maxalt, there are people here who do not like it. l would never deny or hide that fact.
There were people in my last company who didn't like their lot either, just as there are people in Ryanair who think the grass is greener elsewhere, l'm sure.
As a matter of fact l have met several crew, tech and cabin from Ryanair, who are now living here.
l don't think they left because they were in a job that they liked.
So to not be a fool to themselves and a burden on others, they left.
It happens everywhere and for all sorts of reasons. It beats whinging which, let's face it, there is a lot of in this industry.
So if you are happy where you are, then stay.
If you're not, leave. Don't whinge about it.
This formula is not rocket science.
Balanced view
Cost of living on EK captains wage in Ireland as opposed to Dubai....
Living where you choose. Shouldn't that be living where you can affored, as l would choose to live in the Sheikhs palace but l can only affored what l have.....
Keep it balanced if you can.
halas
There were people in my last company who didn't like their lot either, just as there are people in Ryanair who think the grass is greener elsewhere, l'm sure.
As a matter of fact l have met several crew, tech and cabin from Ryanair, who are now living here.
l don't think they left because they were in a job that they liked.
So to not be a fool to themselves and a burden on others, they left.
It happens everywhere and for all sorts of reasons. It beats whinging which, let's face it, there is a lot of in this industry.
So if you are happy where you are, then stay.
If you're not, leave. Don't whinge about it.
This formula is not rocket science.
Balanced view
Cost of living on EK captains wage in Ireland as opposed to Dubai....
Living where you choose. Shouldn't that be living where you can affored, as l would choose to live in the Sheikhs palace but l can only affored what l have.....
Keep it balanced if you can.
halas
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white knight,
you have a cool roster and a n easy life regardess of the economc climate ecause the emirates that back emirates will not loose face. So enjoy your existance by all means but dont delude yourslf as to the source of your lifesyle funding. your existance is dependant on arabic ego and oil money not reality.
no reality airline (financialy speaking)could have such an overhead for expat creature comforts.
enjoy. you are all not much more than the hired (help) acceptable faces for a culture driven by image.
emirates is this decades gulf air, and i'm sure qatar is the next to take up the mantle.
i have one word for you "indigensation" when they have had enuf of you.
and no sour grapes i think you ave a great lifstyle but it is manufactured not market driven.
dont forget the factor 20
you have a cool roster and a n easy life regardess of the economc climate ecause the emirates that back emirates will not loose face. So enjoy your existance by all means but dont delude yourslf as to the source of your lifesyle funding. your existance is dependant on arabic ego and oil money not reality.
no reality airline (financialy speaking)could have such an overhead for expat creature comforts.
enjoy. you are all not much more than the hired (help) acceptable faces for a culture driven by image.
emirates is this decades gulf air, and i'm sure qatar is the next to take up the mantle.
i have one word for you "indigensation" when they have had enuf of you.
and no sour grapes i think you ave a great lifstyle but it is manufactured not market driven.
dont forget the factor 20
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Jack Point - just remember that wherever you work and whomever you fly for you are HIRED HELP!! Rather here for me than back in Europe...
Tell me also if EK's success is manufactured and not market driven why the aeroplanes are all full and looking at making yet another decent profit ??
Tell me also if EK's success is manufactured and not market driven why the aeroplanes are all full and looking at making yet another decent profit ??
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White Knight Don't be deluded into thinking that because the aircraft are full that EK are making a profit.
I know you think everything in EK is wonderful which is just as well because you have burnt your boat by joining EK as indeed have 95% of all pilots who join expat Airlines because there is no going back,taking into account seniority etc .Especially for those who were Captains in their former life and are now in the right hand seat. Once you have been sitting there for more than a year you would be unlikely to get a position as a Direct Captain anywhere else so lets hope your dreams come true.
I personally would be a little concerned about the huge expansion going on at Emirates and personally wonder how it will all end as that part of the world is not particularly stable.
You had better hope that Abu Dhabi where the real money is in that part of the world doesn't decide to take Emirates on because they cannot afford to subsidise forever.
I well remember when EK first started and those at Gulf Air dismissed it all as a joke at the time,something that they now regret.
I know you think everything in EK is wonderful which is just as well because you have burnt your boat by joining EK as indeed have 95% of all pilots who join expat Airlines because there is no going back,taking into account seniority etc .Especially for those who were Captains in their former life and are now in the right hand seat. Once you have been sitting there for more than a year you would be unlikely to get a position as a Direct Captain anywhere else so lets hope your dreams come true.
I personally would be a little concerned about the huge expansion going on at Emirates and personally wonder how it will all end as that part of the world is not particularly stable.
You had better hope that Abu Dhabi where the real money is in that part of the world doesn't decide to take Emirates on because they cannot afford to subsidise forever.
I well remember when EK first started and those at Gulf Air dismissed it all as a joke at the time,something that they now regret.
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Sorry, thought there was mention somehwere in this thread about Emirates direct entry captains, oh well maybe not, must be mistitled judging by the bitching going on.
Carry on with the penis measuring guys!!
Carry on with the penis measuring guys!!
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Jack Point, talking loudly from a position of ignorance does not make you right..........Cathay Pacific housing and benefits ESPECIALLY for the remaining A scalers are far in excess of those enjoyed in the EK litter tray...................
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Yes S.C.
And we can all see what a happy bunch of Larrys the CX pilots are can't we? The 'A' Scalers are having a hoot at the expense of everybody else. Meanwhile the band still played.....
And we can all see what a happy bunch of Larrys the CX pilots are can't we? The 'A' Scalers are having a hoot at the expense of everybody else. Meanwhile the band still played.....
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In relation to Go Directs post re benefits at EK, I think the following qualification is in order.
1st year FO pay is 16760 per month. (3990 euros) and 23920 (5695 euros) for Captains.
Housing and utilities paid for YES --
But you have no choice of villa type, or location. You may end up with something OK, or you may not.
Can you take an allowance in lieu of company provided accommodation YES--
But, its only 95000dhs per annum, for Captains, and less for FOs which is not enough to cover rent, and utilities, which can be very expensive when running air conditioning all summer. Most professionals in Dubai get 120000 plus utilities.
Education paid YES well sort of-
You don't get any cash, you are reimbursed for 90% up to a limit. Unfortunately the limit no longer covers the recent price rises at most schools. As an example the allowance for primary school has just been increased from 19000 to 23500 per year per child, most schools now cost 28000.
Provident fund paid YES-
But you also have to contribute a percentage of your own to pay, no choice. Due to mismanagement the value of most pilots provident fund is now less than what has been contributed. After 15 years in EK the payout value would give you a deposit on a house in the UK, but you wont be retiring on it.
Private health cover YES at the EK clinic--
But its not free you contribute each month,again you have no choice, just as you have no choice of doctors, or a surgeon if you need something done. EK no longer give you a choice of treatment back home at same cost, as they use to.
Loss of license YES-
But the company self insures, therefore addition loss of license, and death cover is essential.
Free transport YES-
A nice benefit.
Allowances to pay for a few beers YES-
But but not enough to actually eat with and are amongst the worst in the industry, and are going down all the time.
Life Style -
Varies depending on fleet, and position, ie numbers at the time on each type, routes flow. At present Captains at least on both fleets are very busy doing upwards of 85 to 90 hours per month Many flights are minimum rest, a few are less than minimum rest and operate under a dispensation. Most pilots would get 10 days a month at home in Dubai.
Added up, the maximum actual pay you are going to receive as an FO is a little over 14000 dhs per month after you take out your compulsory provident fund contribution, medical, and other contributions, or 28000 pounds /40000 euros per year as none of the other benefits are paid as cash. The basic pay has gone from 13500 ,15 years ago to, 16500 today. Theres no doubting the package is worth something but you cant take the unrealistic costs of these benefits in Dubai and convert them to a wage. In most countries you would make money by living in your own house through capital gains. As for schools and medical, the public facilities in any first world country are free, and of a higher standard than in Dubai.
All in all, the company it self is pretty good, but the pay and benefits benefits are becoming very shabby.. If your single, its probably worth considering, if your married and have a position with any half descent, stable, airline in your own country, it definitely does not add up. You wont here too much complaining about EK on this forumn as there is only one governemt owned ISP which is closely monitored.
1st year FO pay is 16760 per month. (3990 euros) and 23920 (5695 euros) for Captains.
Housing and utilities paid for YES --
But you have no choice of villa type, or location. You may end up with something OK, or you may not.
Can you take an allowance in lieu of company provided accommodation YES--
But, its only 95000dhs per annum, for Captains, and less for FOs which is not enough to cover rent, and utilities, which can be very expensive when running air conditioning all summer. Most professionals in Dubai get 120000 plus utilities.
Education paid YES well sort of-
You don't get any cash, you are reimbursed for 90% up to a limit. Unfortunately the limit no longer covers the recent price rises at most schools. As an example the allowance for primary school has just been increased from 19000 to 23500 per year per child, most schools now cost 28000.
Provident fund paid YES-
But you also have to contribute a percentage of your own to pay, no choice. Due to mismanagement the value of most pilots provident fund is now less than what has been contributed. After 15 years in EK the payout value would give you a deposit on a house in the UK, but you wont be retiring on it.
Private health cover YES at the EK clinic--
But its not free you contribute each month,again you have no choice, just as you have no choice of doctors, or a surgeon if you need something done. EK no longer give you a choice of treatment back home at same cost, as they use to.
Loss of license YES-
But the company self insures, therefore addition loss of license, and death cover is essential.
Free transport YES-
A nice benefit.
Allowances to pay for a few beers YES-
But but not enough to actually eat with and are amongst the worst in the industry, and are going down all the time.
Life Style -
Varies depending on fleet, and position, ie numbers at the time on each type, routes flow. At present Captains at least on both fleets are very busy doing upwards of 85 to 90 hours per month Many flights are minimum rest, a few are less than minimum rest and operate under a dispensation. Most pilots would get 10 days a month at home in Dubai.
Added up, the maximum actual pay you are going to receive as an FO is a little over 14000 dhs per month after you take out your compulsory provident fund contribution, medical, and other contributions, or 28000 pounds /40000 euros per year as none of the other benefits are paid as cash. The basic pay has gone from 13500 ,15 years ago to, 16500 today. Theres no doubting the package is worth something but you cant take the unrealistic costs of these benefits in Dubai and convert them to a wage. In most countries you would make money by living in your own house through capital gains. As for schools and medical, the public facilities in any first world country are free, and of a higher standard than in Dubai.
All in all, the company it self is pretty good, but the pay and benefits benefits are becoming very shabby.. If your single, its probably worth considering, if your married and have a position with any half descent, stable, airline in your own country, it definitely does not add up. You wont here too much complaining about EK on this forumn as there is only one governemt owned ISP which is closely monitored.