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Control column flailing during the flare - a dangerous practice by some pilots.

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Control column flailing during the flare - a dangerous practice by some pilots.

Old 22nd Aug 2018, 01:14
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On a similar vein (no pun intended ) when established on an stabilised OEI approach on the bus with no AP it's an interesting exercise to challenge students to see for how many seconds they can keep their hands and feet off the controls and still have it accurately fly alt/az profiles. When they've nailed the trim, they free up brain space for the go around, circle whatever.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 01:19
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1. You’d be better a low gain pilot if you’re trying to be an accurate strafer!

2. What’s the right amount of grip pressure? Imagine you’re flying with your best friend and holding onto a penis, his... that’s the correct amount of pressure.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 04:32
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Those videos are pitiful, just pitiful
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 07:34
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Those videos are pitiful, just pitiful
Agreed. But the wonderful Biggles type drama of man battling the elements is mana to the great unwashed.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 08:43
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Here's another fine example (starting at 50 sec in the movie)

Last edited by sabenaboy; 22nd Aug 2018 at 09:51.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 10:21
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Originally Posted by Bergerie1 View Post
I was told that an aircraft likes to fly unless a pilot disturbs it, but helicopters have always to be saved from crashing..... or words like that.
As a young student, I flew the Skylane. On an approach, I felt increasing “turbulence” and it seemed to worsen the more I tried to maneuver in response to it.

Short finals, and the tower called. “Cessna Nxxx wind is calm.” I was convinced he was wrong, and continued to horse the controls.

“Cessna Nxxx, CALM”. It occurred to me he might be right. I neutralled the controls, and the Cessna found the rails I was avoiding due to my self induced “turbulence”.

Oops.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 10:46
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Including rudder this time

Here's what it looks like from the outside. Is it over controlling, leading to PIO in the yawing plane, or is the A380 that unstable??
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 13:02
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I've just given up and accepted this is now a fact of life in airline flying, having seen it on both the B737 and the A320. I'm prematurely turning into a grumpy old man trying to persuade people against their will why this is so wrong. I've just decided it's easier to let it be, it's like fighting the tide.

Now I just mutter under my breath on short final:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:01
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I used to turn the auto thrust off, set a mid range power setting, turn the a/p off, and then sit back with my hands on my lap or hold onto the glare shield with my left hand so that it was obvious that no control inputs were done. It was especially useful on windy days. The AB is just a ballistic bullet, it goes straight ahead.

With the typical 10 kts wind you could get away with as few as 3-4 inputs from 1000’ to 200’ at which point minor guidance corrections became more frequent but nothing like the the flailing some guys subject the plane, and passengers, with.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 17:43
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What are people's thoughts on this technique? Beginning at 13:50.

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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 19:38
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For starters I can't see there being a great deal of turbulence there with the wind coming off the sea. Fixed wing A/C are inherently stable. He was in a high wing so lateral stability should be good. I say be lazy and let the a/c do the work. It will fly itself, as mentioned in previous posts.

From when he started doing the "Mayo" to when he touched down, the mayo would have been rock solid in that short time. He did appear to have nailed the centre line which was good.

If he was a pilot carrying out very low level ops performing like that, his left arm would probably have given up after the first sortie.

Maybe it's me being too old and out of touch. Please correct me should I be.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 19:42
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Heh... starting at 13:50 and for a while, it seemed to me about normal for a gusty day in a light plane (never flown a Caravan, but speaking generally...) and then it got to the part just before the flare and holy schnike!
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 20:01
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Maybe the pilots posting this stuff online do this intentionally for dramatic effect to gain attention and admiration? After all, if you make very small and gentle inputs it doesn't look so difficult and exciting.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 20:42
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Look at the death grip on that side-stick! Then notice his finger tip control of the nose wheel steering. Go figure.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 02:54
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Originally Posted by C195 View Post
Maybe the pilots posting this stuff online do this intentionally for dramatic effect to gain attention and admiration? After all, if you make very small and gentle inputs it doesn't look so difficult and exciting.
If you want to prove your balls are as big as your ego, go military rather than cash 100k oF mummy/daddy/rbs cash down the integrated route.

Got a lot of time for the guys who work their ways through modular, scraping time doing local instruction and single engine/light twin pax stuff, even crop dusting, than the guys proving the big man on YouTube by waggling a stick wearing raybans whilst the computer makes hight calls.

A lot more finesse and passion for the job
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 04:38
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I cant watch anymore of these, this thrashing
around goes against everything I’ve learned
and practiced in flying an aircraft


The same kind of pilots that ‘kick the rudder’
to straighten out on touchdown!
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 04:44
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Well not all military pilots are ace pilots. To have flown with some ex fighter pilots, some of them were very average to say the least... I guess pulling 7G and flying raw data are 2 different skills.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 05:20
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Quote from John Farley's book A View from the Hover: My Life in Aviation:

Over-control is a common problem with learning to fly, almost regardless of the task but with experience we get better at relaxing, better at trimming, better at letting it fly itself for a bit and then coaxing it back to the desired state. In fact better at becoming a low gain (relaxed) pilot rather than being a high gain (overactive) one. Airplanes take time to respond and it is a waste of time to oscillate controls.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 08:10
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pineteam,

I think you are right. I remember one very well qualified ex-RAF Lightning pilot who clearly had done well as a fighter pilot, but who, when confronted with difficult conditions at Chicago, was unable to cope. As a fighter pilot, under the direction of a ground controller he had obviously been well able to perform, but maybe with only a few tasks at any one time. In the civil environment, when faced with the multiple inputs of flying on instruments in a three-crew aircraft in a hectic ATC environment in a complex area in bad weather he experienced great difficulty. These same issues had arisen during his simulator training, but they became a major problem during route training.

Was this a limited ability to multi-task? He continually forgot things and over-controlled. He did not complete the course.

Last edited by Bergerie1; 23rd Aug 2018 at 09:35. Reason: To improve the clarity of what I wanted to say
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 11:10
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Originally Posted by Bergerie1 View Post
pineteam,

I think you are right. I remember one very well qualified ex-RAF Lightning pilot who clearly had done well as a fighter pilot, but who, when confronted with difficult conditions at Chicago, was unable to cope. As a fighter pilot, under the direction of a ground controller he had obviously been well able to perform, but maybe with only a few tasks at any one time. In the civil environment, when faced with the multiple inputs of flying on instruments in a three-crew aircraft in a hectic ATC environment in a complex area in bad weather he experienced great difficulty. These same issues had arisen during his simulator training, but they became a major problem during route training.

Was this a limited ability to multi-task? He continually forgot things and over-controlled. He did not complete the course.
Not all mil blokes fly fast pointy things .. my point being, if all you have ever done is the dutchess, a JOCC then straight onto a 73 or 320, I'm not surprised at the result. You haven't had long enough to finesse your trade. Please don't let the parochial I once flew with an ex military bloke who was useless tar us all with the same brush.

I'm sure those with a background in SEP or twin flight instruction for a few years wouldn't struggle, nor would a guy who has done a few years crop spraying. You really earn your spurs during those early first hours.
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