E170/190 Angle of Attack

[Chesty Morgan]

Many times I've also said I will refer to it when I need it. It's in the QRH, feel free to go and have a look why.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

We don't fly pitch or power (no airliner I've ever flown requires it), in normal circumstances, so there's no need to refer to any table, in normal circumstances.

Help us, Osiris, in your mercy.

[Vessbot]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

Many times I've also said I will refer to it when I need it. It's in the QRH, feel free to go and have a look why.

When do you need it and when do you not? It would help me to understand your position if you gave some examples of what to do. Let's say (it's the US) you're climbing at 250 knots as you climb through 10,000 feet, and you have to accelerate to 300 knots as per the SID. It's a bog-standard day in your operation, can you walk me through what happens next?

[Chesty Morgan]

Sure, the autopilot pitches down and accelerates towards the target speed. Once there it pitches up to maintain that speed. Thrust stays at climb power. Similar in fashion to, I suggest, most other airliners in operation today. Maybe you fly something different?

You and Amadis can, I hopefully assume, read. It's all there in your QRH. I'm not going to do your leg work for you.

[Vessbot]

I guess I shot myself in the foot when I said "bog standard operation" and opened up to this type of irrelevant response that completely fails to engage with the issue already under discussion. Let me rephrase, what do you do in that situation when *you* (not the autopilot) are flying?

You and Amadis can, I hopefully assume, read. It's all there in your QRH. I'm not going to do your leg work for you.

What exactly is this a response to? What question did I ask that would be answered in a QRH? I'm lost.

[Chesty Morgan]

Yep, the response you got was entirely relevant to your question. When I am flying I would follow the flight director, pitch is irrelevant providing you maintain the minimum climb rate and thrust stays at climb power.

You asked when I need it (the only other question in your post). It tells you in the QRH when you need it.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Flight director failed. Moreover, one ASI is at 310kts while the other is at 205. Your next move, please.

[Vessbot]

Hey we don't even need that, how about simply flight director failed, and accelerate from 250 to 300?!

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

The chances of not having either of the two electronic QRHs or the two paper QRHs available when we need them is minute but I guess that's why we also have a broad stroke memory item. That would also be the time to employ airmanship.

BTW, what broad stroke memory item are you referring to in this case? Granted, I only flew the 170/175 for about 15 months, but I distinctly remember there being only eight memory items (four of them exactly the same) and none had to do with pitch settings.

[simmple]

When I am flying I would follow the flight director, pitch is irrelevant

Sums up todays pilots, sorry aircraft operators completely

[Chesty Morgan]

Simmple, wind your neck in. In the very specific case of accelerating by 50kts is there any reason to not follow the FD?

Vessbot, pitch down to maintain 500fpm until you approach the speed you want then pitch up to maintain it. Thrust stays at climb. Is this difficult for you to understand?

Amadis, pitch and power settings are produced for all airliners. This isn't specific to the EMB. In answer to your question, and it's pretty obvious, you establish which is the accurate instrument.

[Vessbot]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

You asked when I need it (the only other question in your post). It tells you in the QRH when you need it.

That doesn't make any sense. I asked when you need the QRH. (Bizarre that that would even come up when the topic is basic fight control on a normal day.) The answer to that can't be in the QRH, because you'd need to already be looking in the QRH in the first place! So what would prompt you to do that?

Simmple, wind your neck in. In the very specific case of accelerating by 50kts is there any reason to not follow the FD?

Yes. On my airplane, the FD in this case commands a pitch down to a few hundred FPM, sometimes down to completely level flight. A bit overboard to actually do that, don't you think?

Vessbot, pitch down to maintain 500fpm until you approach the speed you want then pitch up to maintain it. Thrust stays at climb. Is this difficult for you to understand?

Yes, it is difficult, because you keep changing your story; it's especially difficult to follow with your brusque one-word fob-off replies. This is the first time in 3 pages you're making what looks like an honest attempt at actually engaging.

For a long time you kept banging on about pitch tables in the QRH, but got evasive when asked when they would come into play. Now, it seems that they don't come into play after all.

Our exchange started when I said "... Then what other option is there but to TLAR it first, and then fine-tune based on the performance instruments?" To which you flatly said "no," but now it seems like is what you're also describing.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

Amadis, pitch and power settings are produced for all airliners. This isn't specific to the EMB. In answer to your question, and it's pretty obvious, you establish which is the accurate instrument.

Precisely, Chesty, precisely. The question is what pitch and thrust setting do you use while you're doing that. Besides, who is to say any of them are accurate?

[Chesty Morgan]

[quote=Vessbot;9816051]That doesn't make any sense. I asked when you need the QRH. (Bizarre that that would even come up when the topic is basic fight control on a normal day.) The answer to that can't be in the QRH, because you'd need to already be looking in the QRH in the first place! So what would prompt you to do that?

Is it? The topic is pitch and power settings in the QRH. Don't you know when you'd refer to them?

Yes. On my airplane, the FD in this case commands a pitch down to a few hundred FPM, sometimes down to completely level flight. A bit overboard to actually do that, don't you think?

Not really. I take it you disconnect the AP every time you need to accelerate to avoid it then?

Yes, it is difficult, because you keep changing your story; it's especially difficult to follow with your brusque one-word fob-off replies. This is the first time in 3 pages you're making what looks like an honest attempt at actually engaging.

I do not keep changing anything chum.

For a long time you kept banging on about pitch tables in the QRH, but got evasive when asked when they would come into play. Now, it seems that they don't come into play after all.

You can look in your own QRH to find out when you'd use them. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

Our exchange started when I said "... Then what other option is there but to TLAR it first, and then fine-tune based on the performance instruments?" To which you flatly said "no," but now it seems like is what you're also describing.

No, you said every time you need to change pitch would I refer to the QRH. The answer is still no.

[Chesty Morgan]

Originally Posted by Amadis of Gaul

Precisely, Chesty, precisely. The question is what pitch and thrust setting do you use while you're doing that. Besides, who is to say any of them are accurate?

It really isn't that difficult. Thrust stays at climb thrust and I'd pitch down to whatever achieved the minimum climb rate until I got to whatever speed I wanted.

If none of them are accurate what are you going to do?

[Amadis of Gaul]

Fly pitch and power. Which is what I've been saying all along.

[Chesty Morgan]

Yeah, some made up numbers. Yeehaw.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Not made up. They come from experience. It's called knowing one's airplane rather one's QRH.

[Chesty Morgan]

And every other variable...

Anything wrong with knowing both? Or would that not be cool?
What do you suggest someone new on type should do?

[Vessbot]

Is it? The topic is pitch and power settings in the QRH. Don't you know when you'd refer to them?

I do, but that's not my question. I'm trying to figure out your conception of flying an airplane, in normal flight.

Not really. I take it you disconnect the AP every time you need to accelerate to avoid it then?

You assume it's already connected. Most of the time it's not, and when it is, I use VS mode for that phase to avoid leveling off.

You can look in your own QRH to find out when you'd use them. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

Again, you seem to be trying to help me find my way (arrogantly, at that) to an answer to a question I didn't ask.

No, you said every time you need to change pitch would I refer to the QRH. The answer is still no.

I said both things. I can only interpret the "no" to apply to both. So now that it's cleared up that you don't use the QRH every time you change pitch in normal fight, what about "TLAR and then fine tune it with the performance instruments?" First you said "no," but then you described how you accelerate to 300 in a way that's tantamount to the same thing. So which is it?

What do you suggest someone new on type should do?

Only use the autopilot, don't bother learning the attitudes, (or any other aspect of flying the airplane) and enjoy life. After all, "we're not pilots anymore, but automation managers!"(Something said to me by a line check airman, with no hint of irony; he was in support of the notion.)