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Some landing advice please. A320

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Some landing advice please. A320

Old 1st Feb 2013, 03:47
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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That is how we did it then and to get the airline job you had to fly an airplane you have never flown, Electra in my case, and if you couldn't handfly a single engine approach after doing 3 approaches prior losing an engine on every missed approach you didn't get the job. How many new hires could do that today? That is the difference between now and then.
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 03:50
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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No visual in those days by the way so ILS approaches to minimums in the sim were ILS's to minimums and we all passed.
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 04:30
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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I know, thread drift but making the touchdown wasn't any harder than the ILS, just judge how much higher you must be in the cockpit at touchdown than your last airplane. Once I made a firm landing in a B767 because I normally flew a B757 so had to remind my self on final which airplane I was flying today. Starting out in a Lear Jet you definately have to readjust when you think the main gear will touch.
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 23:52
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meatlover
I usually look a little ahead of me...
I don't fly an Airbus (I'm an E170/175 driver nowadays), but may I ask why you're looking "a little ahead" rather than all the way at the end of the runway?
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 23:57
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EMIT

Passing the threshold (so, at approximately 50 ft) shift your visual focus point a long way down the runway.
In that way, your peripheral vision will show the descent rate.
Flare enough to almost stop the descent rate.

Do not switch your vision point to inside anymore, because that will destroy the continuity of your descent rate estimation.

My experience is that every landing that was less than soft, I had not shifted vision far enough down the runway, or I did something like a quick check of airspeed during the flare.
I agree wholeheartedly, once I go head up for the flare I have no clue what my descent rate is in fpm or what my airspeed is. It's all visual/feel by then. I still use essentially the same technique as what I was taught landing my first PA-28-161. Eyes at the end of the runway and let's play don't let it touch.

Seems to me some pilots tend to overthink this whole landing thing.
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Old 2nd Feb 2013, 01:45
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Don't let it touch only works with lots of runway. I landed at TGU, Honduras and we had a 700 ft touchdown zone or go around because of the short runway and the cliff at the end. Landing at the 1,000 ft point is very important to prevent over run. We should all be able to do it without floating down the runway.
One day my FO in a 727 kept floating at Kingston Jamaica so I said either land now or go around. He landed. Kingston doesn't have a long runway. Taca put one off the end over the cliff about a year after I retired and killed a bunch of passengers. They landed long on a wet runway and couldn't stop in an Airbus.
TGU is very unforgiving if you screw up. It is just challenging if you do it right. I did over 600 landings with zero close calls. I used the taxiway 1,000 ft from the cliff to use as an indicator of if I was cutting it too close. I never once needed it but to save brakes let us roll to the end. TGU is considered the most dangerous jetliner airport in the world. It is also the most fun. I never went around because if I was going to miss the 700 ft touch down point I just put it on the runway. None of the landings were bad, they were a bit firm, but got some of my smoothest ones too most of the time.
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Old 2nd Feb 2013, 16:44
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Your TGU experience is impressive, however, I do believe my main point stands.
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Old 2nd Feb 2013, 17:10
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Guys/Gals

What a great thread, Some really good advice being thrown around in here.

I have a question of my own, Im a relatively new FO on the Airbus. Could anyone share there technique for landing in a crosswind?

I've noticed that when I have a strong xwind, I will keep thrust on till About 20/retard (depending on circumstances) flare, Just before touchdown de-crab with the rudder, And if need be (shoot me) maybe I check the side stick for a little bit of aileron.

Here's my problem, I have noticed that I tend to float alot with this technique. Today was a prime example, Had a xwind about 14kts gusting 20kts Brought back the thrust about 20ft flared, floated, Landed (within the touch down) For some reason I was very disappointed with the landing and started doubting myself. It felt as if I found it difficult landing in a 15kt xwind.

Any questions/Suggestions or advice would be greatfully appreciated.

Regards,

AB
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Old 5th Feb 2013, 11:17
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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I've noticed that when I have a strong xwind, I will keep thrust on till About 20/retard (depending on circumstances) flare, Just before touchdown de-crab with the rudder, And if need be (shoot me) maybe I check the side stick for a little bit of aileron.

Here's my problem, I have noticed that I tend to float alot with this technique. Today was a prime example, Had a xwind about 14kts gusting 20kts Brought back the thrust about 20ft flared, floated, Landed (within the touch down) For some reason I was very disappointed with the landing and started doubting myself. It felt as if I found it difficult landing in a 15kt xwind.
Considered flap 3? Less tendency to float, especially in a 320.
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Old 5th Feb 2013, 12:11
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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I've noticed that when I have a strong xwind, I will keep thrust on till About 20/retard (depending on circumstances) flare, Just before touchdown de-crab with the rudder, And if need be (shoot me) maybe I check the side stick for a little bit of aileron.

Here's my problem, I have noticed that I tend to float alot with this technique. Today was a prime example, Had a xwind about 14kts gusting 20kts Brought back the thrust about 20ft flared, floated, Landed (within the touch down) For some reason I was very disappointed with the landing and started doubting myself. It felt as if I found it difficult landing in a 15kt xwind.
Maybe you are retarding the thrust too late? I've noticed some pilots (myself included if I don't think about it before flare) are a bit hesitant to retard the TL's in windy/gusty condition and do it later than they would do on a normal day. Add some extra speed to that and voila - you end up floating...
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Old 29th Apr 2013, 19:35
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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I still use essentially the same technique as what I was taught landing my first PA-28-161. Eyes at the end of the runway and let's play don't let it touch.
No Way! you may be flying CRJs but that is NOT the way to land an A320 and if you `aint in an A320 then move over for those who are!

The guy`s asking a question!

If you land it like you just said by that . . .tantric method it will float 2 feet above the runway with ever increasing attitude.

The bus must be flown on.

You are right about "eyes to the end of the runway" but an approx 2 degree pitch up - judged visually is what is required at 20 ft and re-tard when the old man says so - but don`t float it - you`d stay up there all day - fly it on - firmer rather than softer. then follow with nose down without delay or that will stay into the air as long as it wants to too . . .

Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 29th Apr 2013 at 22:41.
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Old 29th Apr 2013, 22:52
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Cool

If you want you can see an approach flown all manual here
Nice flying
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Old 30th Apr 2013, 09:51
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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A320 baby

Remember that 15kt crosswind will provide you with a bit of lift from the swept wing on the upwind side. Effectively this gives you a little bit of an increase in your headwind. Ok, it's on one side only, but you are keeping the wings level along with the FBW normal law so it acts to increase your lift.

For this reason you'll might need to select a very slightly lower than normal attitude for the flare, then de-crab as normal and you should plonk yourself on the runway without any need to use in-to-wind aileron other than to avoid drifting downwind.

I float in strong crosswinds sometimes and it's normally because I forgot to remind myself during the last few hundred feet of the associated lift effect.

In gusty conditions, I agree with the use of Flap 3 as you will carry more energy. However, the high nose attitude and wallowy handling can make life tricky unless you are very smooth and steady with your sidestick inputs.

AD
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Old 30th Apr 2013, 17:52
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A320baby
What a great thread, Some really good advice being thrown around in here.

I have a question of my own, Im a relatively new FO on the Airbus. Could anyone share there technique for landing in a crosswind?
A shame to find such questions. That has nothing to see with automation, but with criminal management of civil aviation by designers of modern civil aviation like Airbus' cowèboys, airlines, instructors, regulators, ICAO.

Last edited by roulishollandais; 1st May 2013 at 02:40. Reason: quote label
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Old 30th Apr 2013, 19:49
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Every landing you walk away from is a good one
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Old 1st May 2013, 03:12
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fantom
With any luck, you'll feel the wheels kiss.
Just don't try this on a short, wet runway
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Old 1st May 2013, 03:15
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bubbers44
Don't let it touch only works with lots of runway. I landed at TGU, Honduras and we had a 700 ft touchdown zone or go around because of the short runway and the cliff at the end. Landing at the 1,000 ft point is very important to prevent over run. We should all be able to do it without floating down the runway.
One day my FO in a 727 kept floating at Kingston Jamaica so I said either land now or go around. He landed. Kingston doesn't have a long runway. Taca put one off the end over the cliff about a year after I retired and killed a bunch of passengers. They landed long on a wet runway and couldn't stop in an Airbus.
TGU is very unforgiving if you screw up. It is just challenging if you do it right. I did over 600 landings with zero close calls. I used the taxiway 1,000 ft from the cliff to use as an indicator of if I was cutting it too close. I never once needed it but to save brakes let us roll to the end. TGU is considered the most dangerous jetliner airport in the world. It is also the most fun. I never went around because if I was going to miss the 700 ft touch down point I just put it on the runway. None of the landings were bad, they were a bit firm, but got some of my smoothest ones too most of the time.
My hero............
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Old 1st May 2013, 03:27
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by noodlebox
far less traffic, less atc vigilance, less prescriptive OFTM monitoring, less commercial pressure, and lower fuel bills. It's a brave new world out there!
When you are to flare and to land with limit crosswind, gusts, windshear , perhaps fire on board,night low level fog, engine lost, etc. it is not the moment to think traffic, atc, fuel bills, etc. and learn to fly with passengers on board.
Bubbers44 tries only to limit damage in case his grandchildren are passengers this afteernoon in such an aircraft with fake-pilots in the cockpit. I am affraid too.
Such pilots have nothing to do in airlines.
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Old 9th May 2013, 00:41
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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where is TGU?
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Old 9th May 2013, 00:42
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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.is it Toncontin International?
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