B737 NG RTO Braking
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Several companies I have worked with have specified PM call "autobrake disarm" either during an RTO , or after a normal landing.
The logic behind this being that during either scenario your attention may be out the window, & you may not pick it up in your field of vision depending on your seating position/ambient light. It is also a useful heads up early in the landing roll, if they have unintentionally disarmed, rather than been disengaged by you, braking manually.
Thought it made good sense, can't see why you would find it so odd, siting in the RHS it is right under your nose, in the LHS it is not.
Given the unfortunate frequency of runway excursions ( more often than not following deep/fast landings) I hope if you are ever involved in one, or indeed a high speed abort, you will prioritise stopping on the paved surface over scoring points.
The logic behind this being that during either scenario your attention may be out the window, & you may not pick it up in your field of vision depending on your seating position/ambient light. It is also a useful heads up early in the landing roll, if they have unintentionally disarmed, rather than been disengaged by you, braking manually.
Thought it made good sense, can't see why you would find it so odd, siting in the RHS it is right under your nose, in the LHS it is not.
Given the unfortunate frequency of runway excursions ( more often than not following deep/fast landings) I hope if you are ever involved in one, or indeed a high speed abort, you will prioritise stopping on the paved surface over scoring points.
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Whats wrong with briefing a possible a/b diesengagement?
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captplaystation,
I didn't say it was odd. Neither, am I suggesting the PM shouldn't speak up.
My thoughts are for RTO handling are that the monitoring of the braking is a memory item as specified in the QRH, as are a bunch of other actions. Outwardly I can understand that it makes sense to brief the item but not in isolation as all the actions need to be performed in the right order. The normal first flight of the day emergency briefing should cover the actions sufficiently.
An SOP to define specific terminology to use in the event of a disarm during an RTO or landing would fill a gap in the Boeing SOPs though. But would it warrant a place in a briefing? Where does it end?
Thought it made good sense, can't see why you would find it so odd, siting in the RHS it is right under your nose, in the LHS it is not.
My thoughts are for RTO handling are that the monitoring of the braking is a memory item as specified in the QRH, as are a bunch of other actions. Outwardly I can understand that it makes sense to brief the item but not in isolation as all the actions need to be performed in the right order. The normal first flight of the day emergency briefing should cover the actions sufficiently.
An SOP to define specific terminology to use in the event of a disarm during an RTO or landing would fill a gap in the Boeing SOPs though. But would it warrant a place in a briefing? Where does it end?
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GlueBall
Yes & No, many times in the Sim I have seen people "covering" the brakes & simultaneously applying rudder resulting in unintentional disengagement, even though they have briefed that they would let RTO do its work. Upon realising this, there may be a reasonable amount of braking being applied , but for sure not the max. For this I think it is an important status change,(I.E YOU are braking , I , "the aircraft", am not) which I have seen slip peoples attention if they are PF.
Sciolistes, I take your point about briefs that go on & on & on , try listening to a Ryanair NPA double brief ! but I have always found it followed a fairly logical sequence when stating the actions , you as PF would do, to subsequently state what you expect of your PM.
"In the event of aborting, I will call STOP ! (ABANDON? or whatever is flavour of the month in your particular company) , close the thrust levers , raise the speedbrakes & apply max reverse, you will call any omitted items & inform me if autobrake disarm illuminates & call out speed ( as demanded by the particular company - usually 80kt, but some want every 20kt on the way down)
I think that is the basic purpose of a brief, what you can expect me to do + what I expect you to do. Most importantly it removes the possibility of any grey areas about whether PF for some reason intended to brake manually, or whether it just "happened".
Failure to see/call out omitted items has quite possibly been a major contributory factor in many over-runs, how often in serious over-runs have you heard anyone calling "No Reverse" / "No Speedbrake" or whatever. I certainly don't remember anyone speaking up loud & clear in AF in Toronto, the Brazilian A320, or indeed most of these accidents where urgent stopping action was not initiated in a timely fashion.
Clear immediate communication would have saved the day in many of these incidents, & a proper (but not exaggerated I agree) brief is always going to be a useful reminder, especially departing at awful o'clock after 3 or 4 hrs sleep.
I put my hand up to failing in this respect on a 10,000ft dry runway flying with a guy I sat next to 24hrs before, but sitting next to A.N.Other with 2000m of wet runway at 4 in the morning I will be spelling it out.
Yes & No, many times in the Sim I have seen people "covering" the brakes & simultaneously applying rudder resulting in unintentional disengagement, even though they have briefed that they would let RTO do its work. Upon realising this, there may be a reasonable amount of braking being applied , but for sure not the max. For this I think it is an important status change,(I.E YOU are braking , I , "the aircraft", am not) which I have seen slip peoples attention if they are PF.
Sciolistes, I take your point about briefs that go on & on & on , try listening to a Ryanair NPA double brief ! but I have always found it followed a fairly logical sequence when stating the actions , you as PF would do, to subsequently state what you expect of your PM.
"In the event of aborting, I will call STOP ! (ABANDON? or whatever is flavour of the month in your particular company) , close the thrust levers , raise the speedbrakes & apply max reverse, you will call any omitted items & inform me if autobrake disarm illuminates & call out speed ( as demanded by the particular company - usually 80kt, but some want every 20kt on the way down)
I think that is the basic purpose of a brief, what you can expect me to do + what I expect you to do. Most importantly it removes the possibility of any grey areas about whether PF for some reason intended to brake manually, or whether it just "happened".
Failure to see/call out omitted items has quite possibly been a major contributory factor in many over-runs, how often in serious over-runs have you heard anyone calling "No Reverse" / "No Speedbrake" or whatever. I certainly don't remember anyone speaking up loud & clear in AF in Toronto, the Brazilian A320, or indeed most of these accidents where urgent stopping action was not initiated in a timely fashion.
Clear immediate communication would have saved the day in many of these incidents, & a proper (but not exaggerated I agree) brief is always going to be a useful reminder, especially departing at awful o'clock after 3 or 4 hrs sleep.
I put my hand up to failing in this respect on a 10,000ft dry runway flying with a guy I sat next to 24hrs before, but sitting next to A.N.Other with 2000m of wet runway at 4 in the morning I will be spelling it out.
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Quote'You would know immediately when 3000 psi brake pressure is released, before it could be mentioned, because the seat belt pressure around your waist would instantly decrease.'unquote
Glueball,not true, i have had this happen to me, while it disengaged upon touch down..
Glueball,not true, i have had this happen to me, while it disengaged upon touch down..
