"I have control and communications, ECAM actions"
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haha
I hate that, too. I never request confirmation for that as it is not required in any document or SOPs. I just go and activate/confirm, then announce it is activated.
I hate that, too. I never request confirmation for that as it is not required in any document or SOPs. I just go and activate/confirm, then announce it is activated.
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confirming approach phase is not irreversible.
The CONFIRM prompt is there because it is very likely to push the LSK where the ACTIVATE appraoch phase is when passing from one performance page to another. Should this occur, all you have to do is not confirm and problem solved. But if you do press the LSK because you really want to activate the phase, then why on earth should you think it twice??
The FMGS, in NAV mode and speed managed , will activate the phase automatically, without even asking!
Even if you activate it inadvertently, it is no big deal. It is not like switching off an IDG. fly selected until you can go head down and recover the phase you want.
Oh, But in this thread we have drifted sooo much...
The CONFIRM prompt is there because it is very likely to push the LSK where the ACTIVATE appraoch phase is when passing from one performance page to another. Should this occur, all you have to do is not confirm and problem solved. But if you do press the LSK because you really want to activate the phase, then why on earth should you think it twice??
The FMGS, in NAV mode and speed managed , will activate the phase automatically, without even asking!
Even if you activate it inadvertently, it is no big deal. It is not like switching off an IDG. fly selected until you can go head down and recover the phase you want.
Oh, But in this thread we have drifted sooo much...
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"ECAM ACTION" order
Hello Guys!
What do you order today when ECAM actions are required? Is it enough to say just "ECAM ACTION" witch means that PF took COMMUNICATION or you say the hole phrase "I HAVE COMMUNICATION, ECAM ACTION"?
What do you order today when ECAM actions are required? Is it enough to say just "ECAM ACTION" witch means that PF took COMMUNICATION or you say the hole phrase "I HAVE COMMUNICATION, ECAM ACTION"?
Originally Posted by A37575
Never heard of that "Golden Rule".
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BagotCommunity Locator
I am stating Airbus procedures. Airlinesmay differ.
1. I have controls call is only requiredif taking over controls from PNF.
2. When PF has controls he orders “ECAMACTIONS”. Communications are automatically transferred to PF.
3. The failure mentioned by you is level 1failure leading to loss of redundancy or system degradation. Amber caution generallywithout procedure. It can be dealt normal way, no need to split hair. Just note. There will be no requirement of QRH. Evaluate consequences of total loss of the system should it occur.
4. Reject take off there is no 70KTS call to prevent conditioned response to bring reverse thrust to idle. PF/CM1 evaluates this on his own. Also there is no spoilers call but only reverse green. As the aircraft stops PNF informs ATC and locates the EVAC PROC.
I am stating Airbus procedures. Airlinesmay differ.
1. I have controls call is only requiredif taking over controls from PNF.
2. When PF has controls he orders “ECAMACTIONS”. Communications are automatically transferred to PF.
3. The failure mentioned by you is level 1failure leading to loss of redundancy or system degradation. Amber caution generallywithout procedure. It can be dealt normal way, no need to split hair. Just note. There will be no requirement of QRH. Evaluate consequences of total loss of the system should it occur.
4. Reject take off there is no 70KTS call to prevent conditioned response to bring reverse thrust to idle. PF/CM1 evaluates this on his own. Also there is no spoilers call but only reverse green. As the aircraft stops PNF informs ATC and locates the EVAC PROC.
Last edited by vilas; 4th Oct 2013 at 04:46.
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It is laid out in our SOP Abnormal Callouts.
"ECAM Actions"
this activates the task sharing laid out in
PRO-ABN-01 P 4/8.
TASKSHARING
The general tasksharing shown below applies to all procedures. The pilot's flying remains the pilot flying throughout the procedure.
The Pilot Flying (PF), is responsible for the:
‐ Thrust levers
‐ Control of flight path and airspeed
‐ Aircraft configuration (request configuration change) ‐ Navigation
‐ Communications.
The Pilot Not Flying (PNF), is responsible for:
‐ Monitoring and reading aloud the ECAM and checklists
‐ Performing required actions, or actions requested by the PF, if applicable
‐ Using the engine master switches, cockpit C/Bs, IR and guarded switches, with PF's
confirmation (except on ground).
Then "ECAM Actions Complete"
Normal Task Sharing.
"ECAM Actions"
this activates the task sharing laid out in
PRO-ABN-01 P 4/8.
TASKSHARING
The general tasksharing shown below applies to all procedures. The pilot's flying remains the pilot flying throughout the procedure.
The Pilot Flying (PF), is responsible for the:
‐ Thrust levers
‐ Control of flight path and airspeed
‐ Aircraft configuration (request configuration change) ‐ Navigation
‐ Communications.
The Pilot Not Flying (PNF), is responsible for:
‐ Monitoring and reading aloud the ECAM and checklists
‐ Performing required actions, or actions requested by the PF, if applicable
‐ Using the engine master switches, cockpit C/Bs, IR and guarded switches, with PF's
confirmation (except on ground).
Then "ECAM Actions Complete"
Normal Task Sharing.
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A Question, as I have no 320 experience just 330 and 380. Just a few differences from what my FCOM manuals say.
Slasher said
"70 knots"???? for RTO 
Vilas said
Do you not call "DECEL" as well???
Or is this amateur hour!
Slasher said
In our mob its CM1 who initiates and does the abort, CM2
advises tower, 70kts etc.
advises tower, 70kts etc.
Vilas said
Reject take off there is no 70KTS call to prevent conditioned response to bring reverse thrust to idle. PF/CM1 evaluates this on his own. Also there is no spoilers call but only reverse green. As the aircraft stops PNF informs ATC and locates the EVAC PROC.
Or is this amateur hour!
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Thank you for the potato sucking lesson.
I am well aware of the 80% retardation rate required for decel annunciation and wet runways etc etc, but is "DECEL" or "No DECEL" a call in an A320 RTO as it is for the 330/380?
I am well aware of the 80% retardation rate required for decel annunciation and wet runways etc etc, but is "DECEL" or "No DECEL" a call in an A320 RTO as it is for the 330/380?
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Even if you activate it inadvertently, it is no big deal. It is not like switching off an IDG. fly selected until you can go head down and recover the phase you want.
T972 - we still call 70 knots during decel on an RTO.....just a reminder that, AS LONG AS YOU DONT NEED IT, reverse should be bought back to IDLE.
Additionally, in our outfit, any ECAM is initiated by the PF saying "Read ECAM" - this applies to level 1,2 or 3. PNF then reads the title and CONFIRMS THE FAILURE using all other resources i.e. E/WD, SD, O/Head panel/lights. PF then says "My radios, ECAM actions"......... The "Read ECAM" call is only made when the PF has the spare capacity available to interact with the PNF. Obviously this isn't an issue with AIR PACK 1 REG FAULT in the cruise but EFATO with a close in EOSID is a different matter.
Not convinced about the merits of PNF launching solo into ECAM after an RTO.....PF out of the loop with possible factors affecting EVAC decision lost due to PNF actions. Does the PNF make a "solo" DAMAGE/NO DAMAGE" during the ECAM?
Remember, it's called ECAM DISCIPLINE for a reason - stick to the rules, read/analyse carefully what it's asking and you won't go wrong.
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T972 - we still call 70 knots during decel on an RTO.....just a reminder that, AS LONG AS YOU DONT NEED IT, reverse should be bought back to IDLE.
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1) Acknowledge the response
2) Call for action you wish
3) Roll up newspaper and hit
2) Call for action you wish
3) Roll up newspaper and hit
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Never heard of that "Golden Rule". One head up? Seriously though - what's that supposed to mean?
Am just a baby but Even I know this one . . .? Its not an Airbus thing, its an airline thang, probably a BA thing or came from one of the majors many moons ago.
Head Down (or Head Up. Meaning - in general - if one is heads down dealing with something the other is heads up looking out the window or flying the aeroplane.
Specifically - it refers to flying instrument approaches when one pilot has head in the shed, flying on instrumets and the other pilot is peering out of the window for the lights - at any one time, if a pilot says heads down the other puts his head up and vice versa.
On this ECAM subject by the OP - in ECAM procedures there is a loop. The whole point of ECAM is that both pilots are in the loop.
Also - if the ECAM comes up with something but does not stipulate any action then its QRH and/or "unusual failures" - actually I forget the correct term but it encompasses any failure which may not fall under your main ECAM procedures - as taught - and trained and can be found in the QRH under . . . . page: . . ?
Also it is unlikely that another pilot would casually resist or refuse something that ought to be done after an ECAM warning - lest of course, to the point of resolving the problem, as per the procedures.
We tend to have fun here on pprune and we never tend to
about in the air with 150 or (400) pax on board - that is 150 or (400) lives/families/people.In short, over the years things have improved - as The Times is a lot smaller now - it is tabloid size, in the old days it was huge and rather than merely clip the ear, the force could send the F/O crashing back through the flightdeck door flying to the back of the fuselage.
To put it bluntly, if an F/O gobs off at a Captain for no operational reason then he will not last very long in the company, am talking after landing.
@Yurik
Hello Guys!
What do you order today when ECAM actions are required? Is it enough to say just "ECAM ACTION" witch means that PF took COMMUNICATION or you say the hole phrase "I HAVE COMMUNICATION, ECAM ACTION"?
What do you order today when ECAM actions are required? Is it enough to say just "ECAM ACTION" witch means that PF took COMMUNICATION or you say the hole phrase "I HAVE COMMUNICATION, ECAM ACTION"?
I fly it, talk to ATC while s/he does the ECAM actions and will ask "ok to clear" each completed action/warning - (just like in the TAP movies and prob every A320 flt in the world).
>
The only time F/O will not be required to ask "ok to clear" is during a Fire, s/he is briefed (way prior to) to just get on with it and not to ask confirmation TO CLEAR(only) but to seek confirmation before moving a fire sw, thr lever, or eng master sw . . . etc., etc., etc . . .
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 5th Oct 2013 at 00:00.
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raraa & Natstrackalpha
Although One Head up at all time is valid task sharing practice it is not one of the four Airbus golden rules.
Although One Head up at all time is valid task sharing practice it is not one of the four Airbus golden rules.
Last edited by vilas; 4th Oct 2013 at 16:25.
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The 4 Golden Rules.
Are they these?:
1/. Aviate, Navigate Communicate
2/ Use the appropriate level of automation
3/ Understand the FMA at all times. and crosscheck selections on the FMA
4/ Take action if things do not go as expected - by PF changing level of automation, by PF reverting to manual flight, by PNF taking action (and my own personal one, by not doing anything, as appropriate to number 1/. Golden rule. If its flying and its happy, wait, assess - it might just continue to fly - AF Atlantic etc, etc . . . )
Are they these?:
1/. Aviate, Navigate Communicate
2/ Use the appropriate level of automation
3/ Understand the FMA at all times. and crosscheck selections on the FMA
4/ Take action if things do not go as expected - by PF changing level of automation, by PF reverting to manual flight, by PNF taking action (and my own personal one, by not doing anything, as appropriate to number 1/. Golden rule. If its flying and its happy, wait, assess - it might just continue to fly - AF Atlantic etc, etc . . . )
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 4th Oct 2013 at 23:40.
