Circling Approach tricks in the simulator.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Circling Approach tricks in the simulator.
A candidate is failed on an instrument rating test in the B737 simulator because he overshot the extended centreline while turning to final. Due to the limitations of field of view on the visual display screen, the runway does not appear until half way around the turn to final.
The testing officer explained that the candidate should have used FMC fixes and waypoints and distance circles on MAP mode to navigate on instruments around the circling approach path with the manoeuvre being flown heads down on instruments rather than by looking outside. In other words to overcome the limitation of the forward view from the simulator, the candidate was expected to use "tricks" in order to position for a stable final approach. In fact,some years ago one airline operator arranged for lights to be placed at various spots on the simulator visual display downwind and base to enable accurate turning points for the conduct of the circling approach.
It doesn't help that low cloud and poor visibility is fed into circling approach exercises in the simulator when already the pilot has his plate full with being unable to visually circle with the airport in sight because of screen viewing limitations. It is often easier to fly a circling approach in the real aircraft than in a simulator. At least you can look over the shoulder to keep the real runway in sight.
It is surely beyond comprehension to allow an examiner to fail a candidate on the visual circling approach manoeuvre when the visual display limitations of a simulator means resorting to gimmicks and tricks with the FMC. In real life a candidate could be rightly criticised for NOT keeping the runway in sight - yet there is no criticism of the heads down on instruments policy in the simulator.
The testing officer explained that the candidate should have used FMC fixes and waypoints and distance circles on MAP mode to navigate on instruments around the circling approach path with the manoeuvre being flown heads down on instruments rather than by looking outside. In other words to overcome the limitation of the forward view from the simulator, the candidate was expected to use "tricks" in order to position for a stable final approach. In fact,some years ago one airline operator arranged for lights to be placed at various spots on the simulator visual display downwind and base to enable accurate turning points for the conduct of the circling approach.
It doesn't help that low cloud and poor visibility is fed into circling approach exercises in the simulator when already the pilot has his plate full with being unable to visually circle with the airport in sight because of screen viewing limitations. It is often easier to fly a circling approach in the real aircraft than in a simulator. At least you can look over the shoulder to keep the real runway in sight.
It is surely beyond comprehension to allow an examiner to fail a candidate on the visual circling approach manoeuvre when the visual display limitations of a simulator means resorting to gimmicks and tricks with the FMC. In real life a candidate could be rightly criticised for NOT keeping the runway in sight - yet there is no criticism of the heads down on instruments policy in the simulator.
PPRuNe supporter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am in total agreement with the points you are making, my question is, whether or not the candidate has been given instruction in the technique described.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well,
some books say, fly it like an instrument approach. And doing that works great. All i need is one short look out in the base to check whether i need to continue my turn or not. Many overshoot the final, because the wind ist mostly blowing from behind. So turning through should be considered. A 1,7 NM circle around the rwy makes a good help.
od
some books say, fly it like an instrument approach. And doing that works great. All i need is one short look out in the base to check whether i need to continue my turn or not. Many overshoot the final, because the wind ist mostly blowing from behind. So turning through should be considered. A 1,7 NM circle around the rwy makes a good help.
od
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Circling Approach in IRT?
Why was a circling approach included in the format of an IRT?
How can you be failed for overshooting a visual intercept?
I was under the impression that as long as you established on an approach track before descent then that was ok?
Did the candidate descend below circling minima?
Even the best simulators that I've been in are pretty unsuitable for visual work. The only thing that you can do in this area is to practice the 'numbers' of a circling approach and when the lights/runway appear in roughly the correct place - well, that's about it really.
I would be really interested to hear more informed comment..
How can you be failed for overshooting a visual intercept?
I was under the impression that as long as you established on an approach track before descent then that was ok?
Did the candidate descend below circling minima?
Even the best simulators that I've been in are pretty unsuitable for visual work. The only thing that you can do in this area is to practice the 'numbers' of a circling approach and when the lights/runway appear in roughly the correct place - well, that's about it really.
I would be really interested to hear more informed comment..
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As presented it sounds unreasonable, but did the pilot fail to correct the turn when visual? I have seen (and flown
) many sim circlings where the last bit has been screwed up when visual. I cannot see how failing to apply an artificial fudge for inadequate equipment could otherwise cause a fail. Was there more to it?
The exercise is even more difficult when circling from 'the other seat' when you sometimes will not see the runway until after the half-way point.
) many sim circlings where the last bit has been screwed up when visual. I cannot see how failing to apply an artificial fudge for inadequate equipment could otherwise cause a fail. Was there more to it?The exercise is even more difficult when circling from 'the other seat' when you sometimes will not see the runway until after the half-way point.
I'd dob the instructor in to the CP. What a joke. Sims (every one I've been in)cannot be used like the aircraft to do visual circling without some latitude for sim errors/limitations. It is a VISUAL manoeuvre. Here, the runway threshold MUST be kept in sight at all times, which you can't do in the sim, quite apart from the degraded sim visuals, which are at the best like flying in pouring rain in the dead of night.
Sounds like an FMS nerd if he's requiring use of fixes/magenta lines just to do a base turn. Doesn't work for #$%^ does he? They seem to be hell-bent on using the box...
Sounds like an FMS nerd if he's requiring use of fixes/magenta lines just to do a base turn. Doesn't work for #$%^ does he? They seem to be hell-bent on using the box...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few tips then.
This needs to be well briefed beforehand and you need a pretty sharp PNF to accomplish this!
At the point where you break off the instrument approach and head 45 left or right, PNF selects the landing runway in the APP page, select an extension of 1.5 miles.
Go to LEGS page and select the extension waypoint to the top of the active page. Input a height of 500'. Do NOT execute!
Don't forget to adjust the track and timing downwind for the wind effect!!!
Start timing from abeam the threshold of the landing runway depending on your height.
As you hit the time required, EXECUTE the legs selection and start the turn. Adjust the bank angle selector to get the trend vector on top of the waypoint. Adjust the vertical speed to get the Green Banana over the waypoint.
As soon as you see the runway visually, you will be amazed to see that you are on the centreline and on the PAPI/VASIs.
Take over manually and land!
The trick to SIM or even real circling approaches is to draw a mini Jepp chart and write on it all the points, distances, timings, heights, speeds, Flap and Gear extension points, wind, vertical speeds and so on. Do it on the back of the met, and make it big enough for PNF to read it too. Brief at least 30 minutes before TOD. The only adjustment you need to make on the day is the timing/heading downwind if the wind is very different from that briefed.
This needs to be well briefed beforehand and you need a pretty sharp PNF to accomplish this!
At the point where you break off the instrument approach and head 45 left or right, PNF selects the landing runway in the APP page, select an extension of 1.5 miles.
Go to LEGS page and select the extension waypoint to the top of the active page. Input a height of 500'. Do NOT execute!
Don't forget to adjust the track and timing downwind for the wind effect!!!
Start timing from abeam the threshold of the landing runway depending on your height.
As you hit the time required, EXECUTE the legs selection and start the turn. Adjust the bank angle selector to get the trend vector on top of the waypoint. Adjust the vertical speed to get the Green Banana over the waypoint.
As soon as you see the runway visually, you will be amazed to see that you are on the centreline and on the PAPI/VASIs.
Take over manually and land!
The trick to SIM or even real circling approaches is to draw a mini Jepp chart and write on it all the points, distances, timings, heights, speeds, Flap and Gear extension points, wind, vertical speeds and so on. Do it on the back of the met, and make it big enough for PNF to read it too. Brief at least 30 minutes before TOD. The only adjustment you need to make on the day is the timing/heading downwind if the wind is very different from that briefed.
The trick to SIM or even real circling approaches is to draw a mini Jepp chart and write on it all the points, distances, timings, heights, speeds, Flap and Gear extension points, wind, vertical speeds and so on
I am not sure that reputable regulatory authorities would permit this. Certainly the Boeing FCTM section on circling approach procedure makes no specific direction in terms of FMC navigation in lieu of visual navigation. In marked contrast the FCTM does publish extensive information on FMC planning for instrument approaches. This suggests Boeing does not encourage heads down MAP reading during a visual circling manoeuvre?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Uncertain of position
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rubik101
Neat trickery. Is the vertical deviation indicator on the N.D. showing accurate hi/lo info when flying this method?
If you entered the Circling Altitude in Cruise page then you could get a TOD point as well?
Neat trickery. Is the vertical deviation indicator on the N.D. showing accurate hi/lo info when flying this method?
If you entered the Circling Altitude in Cruise page then you could get a TOD point as well?
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 30 West
Age: 65
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also bear in mind that unless the FMS has dual GPS update, the FMS position may be drifting as you lose multiple DME inputs to keep NAV accuracy high. We do circling approaches in an LPC/OPC but it is really to highlight the traps you can fall into and it is very much a training exercise.
Our sims have good wrap round visuals, but as the original poster says, you still can't see behind the window like you would on a real visual circuit or circling approach.
Our sims have good wrap round visuals, but as the original poster says, you still can't see behind the window like you would on a real visual circuit or circling approach.
PPRuNe supporter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The gouge (FMS) is taught to all Airbus pilots where I was rated, always mentioned that during the actual ride to look about like you were in a real airplane. I didn't know it was a sin to overshoot the centerline as long as you can correct yourself without exceeding a 30 degree bank.
TRE talking here.
The most frequent problem that one sees as an examiner with circling approaches going to pot is due to not enough evaluation of the wind effect, particularly during the turn to base/final.
Modern FMC, electronic flight display equiiped aircaraft give you a track line and precise groundspeed information.
Always, terrain/circling requirements permitting try to arrange your turn to base and then finals to be INTO WIND. The reduction in groundspeed will prove a huge benefit, making for more time to assess the flight path, turn rate required. ROD etc.
Rubik 101 touched on this in his post.
If you can't make the turn into wind, then being able to anticipate the demands of your base turn/final flap extension/turn rate/ROD selection will help no end.
Make it a part of your briefing, and in briefing make sure PM knows what you are thinking. If it should mean that to position the aeroplane for a base turn into wind, the runway is on PM's side of the cockpit, make sure PM knows you want him to include it in his scan, and advise you how you are doing, passing the threshold etc.
Also, if there is an apprecaible headwind on base leg, it will skew the nose towards the runway, thus helping you as PF to enjoy a view of the runway, final approach etc.
Somebody commented " how can you fail? It is not a test item" There is not enough here to know why the examiner said no-go. There may have been other items not done correctly. It may have been an operators check that was failed, not a licence check. In most companies one expects the operators standards to be higher then the authorities.
Try this one on for size though. If someone flies a non-precision, or a circling approach, and the aeroplane is put in a position from which it is impossible to land SAFELY, the examiner will breathe a sigh of relief if a go-around is flown and reversion to plan B takes place. You do have a plan B of course!
Take a look at Alicante runway 28, the VOR/DME approach. It has an offset of 20 degrees from the runway heading.
You could fly that approach perfectly, break out at minima, and be unable to manouver the aeroplane into position for a landing without seriously destabilising the approach with say a crosswind from the left. A go-around and diversion would be cool, throwing it on the ground in an untidy heap would not. If you don't have the fuel to go-around and proceed with plan B, then perhaps plan A was lousy!
Hope that helps,
BSD.
The most frequent problem that one sees as an examiner with circling approaches going to pot is due to not enough evaluation of the wind effect, particularly during the turn to base/final.
Modern FMC, electronic flight display equiiped aircaraft give you a track line and precise groundspeed information.
Always, terrain/circling requirements permitting try to arrange your turn to base and then finals to be INTO WIND. The reduction in groundspeed will prove a huge benefit, making for more time to assess the flight path, turn rate required. ROD etc.
Rubik 101 touched on this in his post.
If you can't make the turn into wind, then being able to anticipate the demands of your base turn/final flap extension/turn rate/ROD selection will help no end.
Make it a part of your briefing, and in briefing make sure PM knows what you are thinking. If it should mean that to position the aeroplane for a base turn into wind, the runway is on PM's side of the cockpit, make sure PM knows you want him to include it in his scan, and advise you how you are doing, passing the threshold etc.
Also, if there is an apprecaible headwind on base leg, it will skew the nose towards the runway, thus helping you as PF to enjoy a view of the runway, final approach etc.
Somebody commented " how can you fail? It is not a test item" There is not enough here to know why the examiner said no-go. There may have been other items not done correctly. It may have been an operators check that was failed, not a licence check. In most companies one expects the operators standards to be higher then the authorities.
Try this one on for size though. If someone flies a non-precision, or a circling approach, and the aeroplane is put in a position from which it is impossible to land SAFELY, the examiner will breathe a sigh of relief if a go-around is flown and reversion to plan B takes place. You do have a plan B of course!
Take a look at Alicante runway 28, the VOR/DME approach. It has an offset of 20 degrees from the runway heading.
You could fly that approach perfectly, break out at minima, and be unable to manouver the aeroplane into position for a landing without seriously destabilising the approach with say a crosswind from the left. A go-around and diversion would be cool, throwing it on the ground in an untidy heap would not. If you don't have the fuel to go-around and proceed with plan B, then perhaps plan A was lousy!
Hope that helps,
BSD.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Autopilot use.
Just to amplify a point; The 'tricks' I described earlier I use for BOTH the sim and the real thing. I keep the autopilot/autothrottle engaged until I am assured of correct alignment and decent path. The autopilot gives you much more time to scan outside, to monitor and adjust your progress as you make the approach. Also, with the autolpilot engaged, in the event that you have to carry out a missed approach it is much safer and easier to hit ALT HOLD, ensure the correct Missed Approach ALT is set and comence the Go-around by hitting TOGA. Allow the 'plane to take the strain.
Use all the aids and help you can when carrying out a circling approach. It is almost certainly the most hazardous manoeuvre you will ever carry out and if you don't do them regularly, you need to be very confident of your abilities to do it safely.
Many times you will have to accept a tail wind on the base leg as circling is only permitted to one side of the runway. Then you need to have done your downwind heading/track sums well in advance.
You cannot 'wing' a circling approach and expect to be succesful. If you haven't briefed for it before you make your approach and the wind changes, forcing you into a circling approach, take up the hold and take ten minutes to do the sums and write everything down as I mentioned earlier.
Circling means visual.
Visual doesn't mean manual!!!
Manual is for CAVOK..........well, almost!
Happy and safe landings.
Use all the aids and help you can when carrying out a circling approach. It is almost certainly the most hazardous manoeuvre you will ever carry out and if you don't do them regularly, you need to be very confident of your abilities to do it safely.
Many times you will have to accept a tail wind on the base leg as circling is only permitted to one side of the runway. Then you need to have done your downwind heading/track sums well in advance.
You cannot 'wing' a circling approach and expect to be succesful. If you haven't briefed for it before you make your approach and the wind changes, forcing you into a circling approach, take up the hold and take ten minutes to do the sums and write everything down as I mentioned earlier.
Circling means visual.
Visual doesn't mean manual!!!
Manual is for CAVOK..........well, almost!
Happy and safe landings.
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Centaurus....
Isn't this a ludicrous debate?
Lets assume you were doing a circling manoeuvre in marginal visibility and you lost sight of the runway. In reality are you going to continue the approach on the basis of the FMC trickery you've been taught in the sim?
I'd hope not.
This is no doubt one of the trickiest manoevure's out there, but teaching "IMC/FMC" techniques in the sim to solve a visual problem isn't helping anyone fly the procedure in reality.....is it?
Get your downwind tracking and timing right, compute your radius of turn, fly the required bank angle and ROD and if you screw it up, go somewhere else!
Isn't this a ludicrous debate?
Lets assume you were doing a circling manoeuvre in marginal visibility and you lost sight of the runway. In reality are you going to continue the approach on the basis of the FMC trickery you've been taught in the sim?
I'd hope not.
This is no doubt one of the trickiest manoevure's out there, but teaching "IMC/FMC" techniques in the sim to solve a visual problem isn't helping anyone fly the procedure in reality.....is it?
Get your downwind tracking and timing right, compute your radius of turn, fly the required bank angle and ROD and if you screw it up, go somewhere else!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A candidate is failed on an instrument rating test in the B737 simulator because he overshot the extended centreline while turning to final.
Someone needs to point out to the examiner that the circling approach in the simulator is not part of the IR. It is simply an excersise to demonstrate the pitfalls of such an approach; at least that is what it should be!
Someone needs to point out to the examiner that the circling approach in the simulator is not part of the IR. It is simply an excersise to demonstrate the pitfalls of such an approach; at least that is what it should be!
In reality you never fail a check on one item. It may be that the examiner saw a number of things which failed to come up to the required standard.
When I was taught to be an examiner (by CAFU many moons ago!) I was told that if you had to fail anyone (formally) pick something which cannot be argued with! E.g. going below minima. In the subsequent debrief you can then mention any further items.
At the end of the day it's all a question of is the examiner happy to sign your rating? If he/she is not happy to do same he/she has to find a cast iron reason. Its a while since I did any examining but the formal fail paperwork has to show reason(s) for failure.
Believe it or not examiners do not want to fail candidates for test! Remember their authority does not come from the company but the relevant licensing authority (CAA).
Finally you can complain about the conduct of the test but not the result!
When I was taught to be an examiner (by CAFU many moons ago!) I was told that if you had to fail anyone (formally) pick something which cannot be argued with! E.g. going below minima. In the subsequent debrief you can then mention any further items.
At the end of the day it's all a question of is the examiner happy to sign your rating? If he/she is not happy to do same he/she has to find a cast iron reason. Its a while since I did any examining but the formal fail paperwork has to show reason(s) for failure.
Believe it or not examiners do not want to fail candidates for test! Remember their authority does not come from the company but the relevant licensing authority (CAA).
Finally you can complain about the conduct of the test but not the result!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone needs to point out to the examiner that the circling approach in the simulator is not part of the IR. It is simply an excersise to demonstrate the pitfalls of such an approach
While there is value in practicing a circling approach in a simulator as part of training (rather than as a test), in my view it should be practiced in CAVOK and not with the limiting visibility minima. This is due to the visual display limitations of the simulator design.
Interestingly, there is one simulator training provider in USA who conducts type rating on the A320 where the circling approach is conducted at 300 feet above ground level and where full use of the FMC for plotting turning positions is taught. I would hate to be circling at that altitude in any aeroplane - FMC equipped or purely visual...
In terms of a purely visual day/night visual approach such as joining downwind on a normal 1500 ft circuit in a 737, the technique of "drawing" the circuit with waypoints and whatever for base and final fixes, does seem rather gimmicky, in my opinion. Surely pilots' manipulative handling skills and judgement of a circuit have not been degraded to the point where blind and almost total reliance on automatics is considered so vital to the safe and efficient conduct of a flight? It is common to observe in simulator training the almost indecent haste by pilots to engage the automatic pilot after take off for the most simple of exercises such as a circuit or all-engines ILS.
I would hate to be circling at that altitude in any aeroplane - FMC equipped or purely visual...
With some operators at certain airports a circle to land procedure is the only way of landing in specified weather conditions. If the crew have been appropriately trained there is no reason why such a manoeuvre cannot be conducted safely.
In terms of a purely visual day/night visual approach such as joining downwind on a normal 1500 ft circuit in a 737, the technique of "drawing" the circuit with waypoints and whatever for base and final fixes, does seem rather gimmicky, in my opinion.
I will now put my TRE hat on and get prepared to be shot down by all and sundry.
It is not possible to fail a candidate on an "IRT" for screwing up a visual manoeuvre.
The circling approach is no longer a Mandatory Item on the JAA ATPL/Type Rating Skill Test and Proficiency Check Form.
However, as someone else has already pointed out, I would expect a trained crew to be able to make such a manoeuvre. If they could not then it could become an OPC issue.
Now I am a very practical aviator and I get a bit worried about some of our profession who cannot fly such manoeuvres without the use of an FMC. I have no objection to using everything available but I do get nervous when I fly with some youngsters who are pushing buttons when looking out of the window would be a far better idea and also give an instant solution!
So let us get down to basics. The opening gambit on this thread was looking for tips on how to conduct this exercise successfully in a simulator. Here are my little tips.
Before you start, make sure that you give a good brief and do not allow yourself to be rushed into the exercise. In particular, it is essential that you brief the go-around procedures depending on at what point visual contact is lost. For example, if contact is lost downwind then a go-around is initiated and a turn towards the runway is made in order to intercept the missed approach procedure for the instrument let down that got you there in the first place.
The most awkward can be losing sight of the runway on finals which will involve a circling go-around through up to 180°.
If the automatics are available (and approved) then use them. They will fly the aircraft more accurately than you and will allow you more time to manage the situation.
If your aircraft is not fitted with autothrottle then it is vital that you fly the entire procedure at the same airspeed until you are visual on finals for the landing runway. This is not rocket science. If you fly your 45° for 45 seconds turn at 210 knots and then turn on to finals at 150 knots, it simply will not work out!
Make due allowance for drift when downwind. (I notice that one contributer stated that it is necessary to be able to see the runway threshold at all times. In fact, when you are downwind, you are only required to have the "runway environment" in sight. For example, if you were downwind on 27 at Liverpool at night, you may well not be able to see the runway lights but the ramp lights should be easily visible).
In some simulators the visual system is not good enough for you to be able to see the threshold when abeam. In which case, it is encumbent upon the examiner to give you an accurate abeam point. From that point (and assuming that you are still flying at a good steady IAS) time for the circling minima HEIGHT (not altitude) x 3. (EG: 700 ft agl x 3 = 21 seconds) making due allowance for wind. Do not go for more than 30 seconds.
Then commence a level turn on to finals. This is where it usually goes wrong!
If you are using the automatics in basic modes, then get your heading bug round on to the runway heading ASAP. If you try to do it in progressive demands then every time the aircraft gets close to the heading bug the bank will tend to reduce and you will tend to overshoot the centreline.
Now then, you are absolutely not allowed to leave circling minima until the approach lights or the runway itself are in sight. Therefore, it could be that you have to react very quickly.
Most cock-ups occur at this stage. The candidate is so pleased to see a runway that he/she spends a lot of valuable seconds admiring their wonderful achievement. All the while, they are getting higher and higher!
On my current aircraft, 6 things have to be accomplished very quickly:
1. Disconnect the AP.
2. Reduce power (a large reduction).
3. Start descending - even if you see 4 Reds - start descending at 200 fpm or so - you can soon regain the 3° slope later. (If you don't start descending then you will probably pop back up into cloud when you drop land flap and that will mean a go-around).
4. Extend landing flaps.
5. Airbrakes if needed.
6. FDs off.
The circling approach is quite a demanding exercise and it is not often that modern pilots have to fly them. When I was a youngster, NDB letdowns were de rigueur and we flew circling approaches a plenty.
Nowadays they are very unusual and therefore require a great deal of respect. There have been some terrible accidents in recent years (such as Guam) that they should be treated with a huge amount of care and practiced at every possible opportunity.
It is not possible to fail a candidate on an "IRT" for screwing up a visual manoeuvre.
The circling approach is no longer a Mandatory Item on the JAA ATPL/Type Rating Skill Test and Proficiency Check Form.
However, as someone else has already pointed out, I would expect a trained crew to be able to make such a manoeuvre. If they could not then it could become an OPC issue.
Now I am a very practical aviator and I get a bit worried about some of our profession who cannot fly such manoeuvres without the use of an FMC. I have no objection to using everything available but I do get nervous when I fly with some youngsters who are pushing buttons when looking out of the window would be a far better idea and also give an instant solution!
So let us get down to basics. The opening gambit on this thread was looking for tips on how to conduct this exercise successfully in a simulator. Here are my little tips.
Before you start, make sure that you give a good brief and do not allow yourself to be rushed into the exercise. In particular, it is essential that you brief the go-around procedures depending on at what point visual contact is lost. For example, if contact is lost downwind then a go-around is initiated and a turn towards the runway is made in order to intercept the missed approach procedure for the instrument let down that got you there in the first place.
The most awkward can be losing sight of the runway on finals which will involve a circling go-around through up to 180°.
If the automatics are available (and approved) then use them. They will fly the aircraft more accurately than you and will allow you more time to manage the situation.
If your aircraft is not fitted with autothrottle then it is vital that you fly the entire procedure at the same airspeed until you are visual on finals for the landing runway. This is not rocket science. If you fly your 45° for 45 seconds turn at 210 knots and then turn on to finals at 150 knots, it simply will not work out!
Make due allowance for drift when downwind. (I notice that one contributer stated that it is necessary to be able to see the runway threshold at all times. In fact, when you are downwind, you are only required to have the "runway environment" in sight. For example, if you were downwind on 27 at Liverpool at night, you may well not be able to see the runway lights but the ramp lights should be easily visible).
In some simulators the visual system is not good enough for you to be able to see the threshold when abeam. In which case, it is encumbent upon the examiner to give you an accurate abeam point. From that point (and assuming that you are still flying at a good steady IAS) time for the circling minima HEIGHT (not altitude) x 3. (EG: 700 ft agl x 3 = 21 seconds) making due allowance for wind. Do not go for more than 30 seconds.
Then commence a level turn on to finals. This is where it usually goes wrong!
If you are using the automatics in basic modes, then get your heading bug round on to the runway heading ASAP. If you try to do it in progressive demands then every time the aircraft gets close to the heading bug the bank will tend to reduce and you will tend to overshoot the centreline.
Now then, you are absolutely not allowed to leave circling minima until the approach lights or the runway itself are in sight. Therefore, it could be that you have to react very quickly.
Most cock-ups occur at this stage. The candidate is so pleased to see a runway that he/she spends a lot of valuable seconds admiring their wonderful achievement. All the while, they are getting higher and higher!
On my current aircraft, 6 things have to be accomplished very quickly:
1. Disconnect the AP.
2. Reduce power (a large reduction).
3. Start descending - even if you see 4 Reds - start descending at 200 fpm or so - you can soon regain the 3° slope later. (If you don't start descending then you will probably pop back up into cloud when you drop land flap and that will mean a go-around).
4. Extend landing flaps.
5. Airbrakes if needed.
6. FDs off.
The circling approach is quite a demanding exercise and it is not often that modern pilots have to fly them. When I was a youngster, NDB letdowns were de rigueur and we flew circling approaches a plenty.
Nowadays they are very unusual and therefore require a great deal of respect. There have been some terrible accidents in recent years (such as Guam) that they should be treated with a huge amount of care and practiced at every possible opportunity.
Last edited by JW411; 25th Jun 2007 at 15:51.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tee Emm, I think you are confusing Circling Approaches with visual approaches. The circling minima is quite often around 300' AGL. It is more likely to be around 600-700; but it is very unlikely to be 1500. Getting PNF to use the FMC and monitor your progress is far safer than both pilots looking outside during this extremely critical manouvre.
JW411, I have no wish to shoot you down....................however;
At the completion of the downwind, timed leg, you will need to commence a gentle (200fpm) decent as soon as you turn the heading bug onto the runway heading. Also, at the same point you will need land flap deployed, Approach speed nailed and the Landing Checks completed as you commence the turn.
Airbrakes or speedbrakes should never be extended with the Flaps extended beyond 10/15 degrees on Boeing or 2 on Airbus.
Gear Down and Intermediate flap must be lowered at the normal point prior to the approach on the Non landing runway. The whole procedure needs to be flown at 150 kts or so until the point where you begin timing abeam the runway.
You can decend below the circling minima as long as you can see the runway. You don't have to be lined up on the centreline before you decend. If you maintain Altitude until you are lined up you will never get down onto the runway.
Otherwise, agreed with the rest!As you rightly point out, preparation is all.
Detailed and thourough preparation is the key to doing this right. Rush the briefing and you will cock it up, no question.
JW411, I have no wish to shoot you down....................however;
At the completion of the downwind, timed leg, you will need to commence a gentle (200fpm) decent as soon as you turn the heading bug onto the runway heading. Also, at the same point you will need land flap deployed, Approach speed nailed and the Landing Checks completed as you commence the turn.
Airbrakes or speedbrakes should never be extended with the Flaps extended beyond 10/15 degrees on Boeing or 2 on Airbus.
Gear Down and Intermediate flap must be lowered at the normal point prior to the approach on the Non landing runway. The whole procedure needs to be flown at 150 kts or so until the point where you begin timing abeam the runway.
You can decend below the circling minima as long as you can see the runway. You don't have to be lined up on the centreline before you decend. If you maintain Altitude until you are lined up you will never get down onto the runway.
Otherwise, agreed with the rest!As you rightly point out, preparation is all.
Detailed and thourough preparation is the key to doing this right. Rush the briefing and you will cock it up, no question.