If your captain is going to botch the landing....
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Really my point was that a captain who is prepared to humble himself and openly empower those around him like this removes potential psycological barriers to safety management. I absolutely applaud his decision although I accept it may have been better to say 'alert me' or something like that. I would hope that a pilot watching me at LTCC would alert me if he felt I had apparently missed something
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not from me. My issue was to do with a STOP! Call and a possible false STOP!
You're correct! Considering that this topic was originally about "botched landings", we've deviated considerably from that subject.
I'm also amazed that you have 'about 8' items for a ?mandatory? High-speed stop.
Remember my qualifying statement. "...I’m going to use the Generic Airbus Flight Crew Training Manual FCTM as an example..." And, that manual indicates 8 items that should be considered for a "Stop". Refer to [FCTM 03.020]
By the way, I can’t seem to find the word “Mandatory” in my previous posting.
9 times out of 10 it is better to GO with most failures.
Remember what I said, "...There isn’t a pilot anywhere that doesn’t understand that a Rejected Take-off is a potentially hazardous manoeuvre….continuing the take-off is the much safer choice...."
Would you not be better having a computer make the stop decision in that case?
A difficult and critical time for decisions, so make them easy and train the crews accordingly.
I assume that we are, in fact, singing from the same sheet of music.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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By the way, I can’t seem to find the word “Mandatory” in my previous posting
Same sheet of music, different key?
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Originally Posted by KSeet
I have the right, as the co-pilot, to do something about it. I just hope that the Captain will be an understanding person...:P
I would say, it's not just a RIGHT, it's your DUTY !
These planes are designed to be flown by 2 pilots. If one of them becomes "incapacitated", it's an EMERGENCY situation (at least in my company).
And a captain that does not respond to 2 prompts from his copilot in any way (oraly with an explanation and/or manually with a correction) is considered "subtly incapacitated".
It's also the captain's job to maintain a minimum level of good CRM in the cockpit...so if he doesn't, don't fell bad, just do your job !!
happy landings
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Originally Posted by 120.4
BOAC: No offence taken.
As I sat there having been empowered this way I wondered how I could possibly be qualified to make such a call. And it didn't take me many seconds to come to the decision that there is no way I could ever say 'stop'. I also decided that the only event which could even make attract his attention at such a critical time would be a runway incursion, which I would clearly have been able to see. It would then be his decision on an appropriate course of action.
Really my point was that a captain who is prepared to humble himself and openly empower those around him like this removes potential psycological barriers to safety management. I absolutely applaud his decision although I accept it may have been better to say 'alert me' or something like that. I would hope that a pilot watching me at LTCC would alert me if he felt I had apparently missed something.
Point 4
As I sat there having been empowered this way I wondered how I could possibly be qualified to make such a call. And it didn't take me many seconds to come to the decision that there is no way I could ever say 'stop'. I also decided that the only event which could even make attract his attention at such a critical time would be a runway incursion, which I would clearly have been able to see. It would then be his decision on an appropriate course of action.
Really my point was that a captain who is prepared to humble himself and openly empower those around him like this removes potential psycological barriers to safety management. I absolutely applaud his decision although I accept it may have been better to say 'alert me' or something like that. I would hope that a pilot watching me at LTCC would alert me if he felt I had apparently missed something.
Point 4
At about the TOD it was pointed out to me that they had a HYD problem ! They thought it was indication but weren't sure and were preparing for loss of NWS, gear not locked etc etc... The Capt turned to me and said please keep an eye out for traffic ! (No TCAS in those days) I was relieved to have something to do and it was great use of a deadhead.
We landed ok it was an indication problem.
