RYANAIR.......WHY SO FAST!! (Seemingly)

[zkdli]

One final post,

I don't care that ryr always ask if they have to obey the slp But could someone in the company please please please get the two callsigns ryr2255 ryr 3255 changed. Most days they come into stn at the same time and if you have spent anytime on r/t you will know that twos and threes sound almost exactly the same. We have been trying to get these c/signs changed or months but ryr just seem to ignore us! Do we have to have a blemish or worse on ryr's safety record before they are changed?

[Tan]

johnpilot

Good post and more or less what I expected. Our SOP's require us to be fully configured by the OM. Thank goodness we don't do circling approaches anymore, or more correctly, not at the minimums of the old days...

[pom]

Well, I operated the 737-200 in a previous life and a few of the Captains used to cut both engines as we approached the stand. One day we did this and the brakes then failed. As we gently rolled towards the bowser the Captain opened his DV window and yelled at the marshallers to throw a chock under the nosewheel. Eventually they caught on and the a/c stopped dead about 4' away from the bowser, accompanied by the sound of 189 passengers falling over and all the catering falling out of the galleys.

So I don't think it's safe............

[eng123]

Must have been a tight squeeze with 189 pax on a -200.How would having the engine's running guard against a brake failure? With APU running supplying electric power then the electric hyd pumps are available to provide brake pressure to the outbd wheel brakes,even ignoring the pressure available to all brakes via the brake accumulators[available without any hyd pumps running]

[JW411]

pom:

I know nothing about 732s or your previous operation but I am curious to know:

1. Is it possible to get 189 passengers into a 732?

2. Why was the bowser parked in front of a moving aircraft? Surely this is a highly dangerous practice?

3. Why did 189 passengers fall over when they should have been seated with their seat belts fastened? Did one of you switch off the seatbelt sign whilst the aircraft was still in motion?

4. Why was the catering not firmly secured before landing?

All in all it sounds like a very dodgy operation to me.

[stormcloud]

Time to join the bunfight!

JW411 & stargazer02,
If you care to read the original post again you will see that it is about the perception of the guys wife.
Since 99.9% of passengers are not aviation professionals, it is IMHO, pretty important to consider their perceptions of us as individual companies and as an industry as a whole.
You may recall a small thing called SARS which has to be one the the best/worse cases of perception in a long time and had an effect on most, if not all of us.
Your personal attacks on CN belittle you in front of your colleagues and detract from the effectiveness of any point you are trying to make.
I'm sure that FR pilots are no less professional than any other good airline and long may that continue.
However, this is a 'Professional Pilots' forum and I personally think it reasonable for us to be able to question the operation of others in 'public' airspace.
I don't have a problem with fast approaches that are safe and stabilised but I do have an opinion on some of the other points raised.

Happy landings all.

stormcloud

Off soap box, engage blast deflectors!

[JW411]

stormcloud:

I thank you for your reply. I can see that you are a good and charitable man. I am indeed aware that Captain Numpty purported to be passing on his "new wife's perceptions" but I simply do not believe him.

I decided early on in this thread that he was just using this ruse to start yet another Ryanair sh*t-stirring contest and nothing that I have read since has dissuaded me from that view.

I have never worked for nor do I ever have any intention of working for Ryanair but I am getting sick and tired of fellow professional pilots being attacked in this way.

I have been a professional pilot for more than 40 years and have taught and flown with many fine young men. Some of them now fly with FR and they simply do not deserve to see and listen to the sort of malevolent and cowardly odium that the likes of the starter of this thread just love to create.

[stormcloud]

JW411,

You have me at a disadvantage as I only have 40 years of life so far

I did'nt see it as a $h!t stirring start but, hey, we can disagree.

Like you I never have/never will etc.
I think part of the problem, or maybe a large part of the problem is MOL. While undoubtedly a brilliant business man he comes across as a complete ar$e. Flies are drawn to smell of S**t!

I'm sure the guys/girls you taught are not the ones doing 40 kt taxying or turning off the masters before the park brake is on but some undoubtedly do and that is a reasonable point for discussion and IMHO critisism. It's also a fact of life that we are all (company or profession) tarred with the brush of one or two idiots. Maybe it's better to be 'attacked' here than the front page of a daily.

WWW asked 'why FRA safety is such a recurring theme on PPRuNe'. Again, I think it comes down to the perception of many pilots who see them fast taxying etc, know that they have got away with it so far (thinking 'cowboy') but wonder how long it will last.

Haven't seen any of CNs previous posts so can't respond to your last.

Anyway, it's ok to disagree unless you are pointing at the ground



Happy landings.

stormcloud

[Brookmans Park]

I WOULD LOVE TO FLY A FAST APPROACH AT DUB BUT THE ATC IS SO BAD THAT I SELDOM CAN SEND THE DUBLIN ATC GALS ANN GUYS TO STN TO SEE HOW HOW IT CAN BE DONE REALLY WELL


Edit: BPK, perhaps you would care to say what your point is. It is very hard to understand right now.

And just for your info. Using capital letters is considered to be 'shouting' and, therefore, rude. Thought I should just let you know.

[eastern wiseguy]

BPK to get your point across try english and (FEWER CAPITALS)......we ALL speak it here.......

[pom]

Sorry, details a bit hazy after 20 years. 124 pax I think - some of them always got up as the a/c approached the stand, even with the cabin crew shouting at them. You will find that the catering will fall out when the a/c stops dead, whether it's "secured" or not (ours was). If you haven't seen a bowser drive in front of a moving aircraft recently, maybe standards have improved in your neck of the woods over the last 20 years. Having said that, I saw one last week.

As I recall, the brake failure was caused by the electrical power changeover when the engines were shut down.

[slingsby]

line up canx due aircraft at 13 miles 300knts !!! Ex military driver remembering the run in and break, going to guns, TFLW radar on, hard ride set....

Not having flown with Ryanair, no real comment, but was passed by one B737 on the approach to LTN, we were 180knts and he passed us like a bat out of hell, boards out, aiming to be nbr 1 ahead of us and the other 2 aircraft. He called visual at 10 miles , asked if any traffic on finals, reply was negative, called up turning finals now, switching to tower,............. now thats worthy of a comment or two...

[G-ALAN]

As a regular flyer on Ryanair I have nothing against them (apart from the fact they are always delayed ) However I have observed all the above mentioned on this thread several times and have often wondered about the safety of some of these practices. I have noticed before it was even mentioned that Ryanair seem to do everything in a hurry, infact taxing to 05 at STN on one flight the pilot opened the throttles very slightly and just let the aircraft roll faster and faster! we must have been doing about 40kts at the end of the taxiway!! and about 50% of the time the engines are shut down before we stop at the gate. About 90% of the time the flaps and gear don't come down till late on in the approach and the aircraft does seem to approach very fast and always has to use spoilers to slow down before the flaps come out! infact once seen it deploy flaps 5 and still had to use spoilers to slow down!!

I'm not an airline pilot so I've no idea if these practices are safe or not I'm just stating the facts which I have observed first hand, like I said I'm not bashing Ryanair in any way, they always take me to where I want to go safely and that's all that matters to me.

[VFE]

I flew Ryan a coupla months ago outa DUB and the whole operation was very slick and to my liking. So slick in fact that the Captain forgot to do the pax announcement until we were about to line up on the runway and even then it was:

"Morning ladies and gents, we have clearance for take off so are gonna go straight away. Weather in STN is the same as it is here. Cheers"

Good ole customer service eh!

Personally I couldn't have given a monkeys about that but I bet the PR dept would be up in arms over it. As for the taxiing, approach and shutting down before stopping bizzo....... I never noticed but that's not to say they didn't of course but is there really an issue anyway if it's all within regs?

VFE.

[woottsbj25]

Hi,
I'll put my comment in...

When I flew with Ryanair to Verona, they were going incredibly fast on the approach. As we exited the runway, the reversers were still engaged at the SAME PERCENTAGE that they were when we landed. Then, we taxiied incredibly fast to the gate and were shunted off the plane as fast as possible.

Also, on departure from Stansted, the plane arrived late (I would like to stress that it did on the way back as well). The passengers got off, and then we went straight on. No cleaning. There was enven a large lump of chewing gum on my seat when I came to sit down. Fresh as well.

I wasn't impressed with Ryanair. Not at all.

[Approach_plate]

I have seen the crew shut down the engines 10ft or so before the stop bar and coast to a stop

So you have never seen a Ryanair 732 come on to stand 13 at CWL then have you?? ground speed of 25knts + both engine switched off as it passes stand 9 and heavy braking coming up to the stop bar with the marshaler s**ting himself thinking is he going to stop?? I have even listend in on tower as the asked a FR 732 to reduce taxi speed.

[Herod]

You're not going to believe this, but yesterday I heard "Ryanair, can you expedite your taxy, you're delaying the aircraft behind". Flogging offence, I would have thought.

[brain fade]

Re fast approaches and taxi speeds. I used to fly the a/c 'harry flatters' the whole time. On a line check once tho, my (very) experienced line trainer made me do the actual sums and work out the actual gain. You know 20 kt extra for 8 mins takes you about 2 miles nearer the runway.......... saves you about 40sec etc etc. Do your own sums when you get a mo. As for say 40 Kt extra betweem six and three miles on the ILS the gain's utterly miniscule. work it out if you can be arsed.
Naturally the same sort of logic applies to taxxing. do the sums for a typical one mile taxi to see the tiny saving in time.
As for shutting down before you park. Why? fuel saving truly insignificant and surely doesn't even allow quicker disembarkation.
Re. Ryanair safety record. I'm glad its good! All airlines start off with a good safety record. The trick is to keep it that way year in year out. Still......so far so good.
Just work out what the gain actually is, timewise. That way at least you know what you are getting for all that rushing about

Me. I just wish they'd TALK a bit slower on the RT

[dicksynormous]

Ryr policy is the same as most on the 800. Econ descent, dont fly flat out to catch up lost time, etc etc. So if anyone has hard evidence they should present it. Otherwise leave them alone.

I have operated for them and its no different. Gossip based accusations based on the earlier operations with 200 series.

If some guys decide to speed up its their chioce , not policy.

[jonathang]

I know nothing about 732s or your previous operation but I am curious to know:

1. Is it possible to get 189 passengers into a 732?

No, FR's config is 130Y for 737-200.

2. Why was the bowser parked in front of a moving aircraft? Surely this is a highly dangerous practice?

Yes, highly dangerous and unlikely it happened. Bowser should not even drive in front of an aircraft taxing on stand. (Aircraft right of way over vehicles).

3. Why did 189 passengers fall over when they should have been seated with their seat belts fastened? Did one of you switch off the seatbelt sign whilst the aircraft was still in motion?

Also sounds very doubtful. Everyone knows lots of pax do stand up against cabin crew instructions. (All 130 ?? hmm)

4. Why was the catering not firmly secured before landing?

Mistakes happen , latches fail. Also highly unlikely.

All in all it sounds like a very dodgy operation to me.

Or it never happened?

Former FR Dispatcher