RYANAIR.......WHY SO FAST!! (Seemingly)
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Sorry stargazer, but things must be very different on your side of the pond. Whilst I am not qualified to talk of piloting things I have to raise an eyebrow or two at some of your comments. But when it comes to ATC, then I'm in my element.
There are few rules about taxi speed - I suspect professionalism is usually sufficient to ensure that taxi speeds are kept appropriate to the situation (and that means for all aircraft in the area). Although controllers may think to themselves 'that looks a bit fast', in most cases they will not intervene unless there is some immediate danger.
Your attitude seems to be 'I'll see what I can get away with and if it's a bit dangerous someone will tell me'.
Like I say, things seem different on your side of the pond ... and not for the better.
There are few rules about taxi speed - I suspect professionalism is usually sufficient to ensure that taxi speeds are kept appropriate to the situation (and that means for all aircraft in the area). Although controllers may think to themselves 'that looks a bit fast', in most cases they will not intervene unless there is some immediate danger.
Your attitude seems to be 'I'll see what I can get away with and if it's a bit dangerous someone will tell me'.
Like I say, things seem different on your side of the pond ... and not for the better.
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yes ryanair a/c taxi at very high speeds far in excess of what they are supposed i see it reguarly from the twr we don't mind ,yes they fly fast app's and sometimes it helps i have never seen a fr pilot go around for that reason ,and yes i have heard of a/c who taxi with one engine off have seen on some aerodrome plates the ref:747 a/c taxi only with engines 2+3 running due jet blast.surely with the apu on its providing hydraulic and electrical power i.e. brakes to stop before the end of the stand.and yes i have seen fr pilots use reverse on taxiways it's kicked up a lot of dust from w.i.p. and we have commented.
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Sadly it is catching on. Walked down the steps on the jetbridge on A14L at EGSS this week, and saw a Buzz 146 "ID" blast past in the blink of an eyelid. Oh thats right, Buzz are now part of Ryanair arent they.
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<<<
As for the fella saying that his flight needed reverse thrust in order to stop during the taxi! You don't know what you are talking about.You obviously have absolutely no idea so why comment on something when you are clearly not in the position to do so? Anyone that has taxied a -200 will tell you how effective the wheel brakes are.I must admit I have only taxied empty aircraft but let me tell you that if you operate the brakes with anything more than a gentle push with the toes then the thing will stop immediatly.Just how effective do you think reverse thrust would be at a ground speed of 20-30 knots with the engine at idle?
Could it not have been that the crew were cycling the reverser on the taxi-in to check an inication fault or something?
>>>
Oh, God, I'm so sorry. I merely asked a polite question, which you finally got around to answering at the end (yes, this sounds plausible), after burying me in the previous paragraph.
As for the fella saying that his flight needed reverse thrust in order to stop during the taxi! You don't know what you are talking about.You obviously have absolutely no idea so why comment on something when you are clearly not in the position to do so? Anyone that has taxied a -200 will tell you how effective the wheel brakes are.I must admit I have only taxied empty aircraft but let me tell you that if you operate the brakes with anything more than a gentle push with the toes then the thing will stop immediatly.Just how effective do you think reverse thrust would be at a ground speed of 20-30 knots with the engine at idle?
Could it not have been that the crew were cycling the reverser on the taxi-in to check an inication fault or something?
>>>
Oh, God, I'm so sorry. I merely asked a polite question, which you finally got around to answering at the end (yes, this sounds plausible), after burying me in the previous paragraph.
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GCC,
Many moons ago, I watched a BOAC VC10 stop on stand by using reverse thrust . Granted, the taxyway and stand hadn't been de-iced properly, but it HAS happened . i was there.
Aviation is a funny business in more ways than one
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
Many moons ago, I watched a BOAC VC10 stop on stand by using reverse thrust
. Granted, the taxyway and stand hadn't been de-iced properly, but it HAS happened . i was there.Aviation is a funny business in more ways than one
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
Quoting from the 737 ( which Ryanair operate ) FCTM, page 2.5, 737-600 - 737-900, 'normal taxy speed is 20kts, adjusted for conditions. On long straight taxi routes, speeds up to 30 kts are acceptable, however at speeds greater than 20 kts use rudder pedal steering only. When approaching a turn, speed should be slowed to an appropriate speed for conditions. On a dry surface, use approximately 10 kts'.
This is straight from Boeing, 30kts on the emergency runway at LGW can feel quite slow, but on a narrower taxyway quite fast.
Reverse thrust, again I quote, 'During taxy.... the use of reverse thrust above reverse idle is not recommended due to the possibility of FOD.... Idle reverse thrust may be necessary on slippery surfaces to control speed while taxying'.
This is straight from Boeing, 30kts on the emergency runway at LGW can feel quite slow, but on a narrower taxyway quite fast.
Reverse thrust, again I quote, 'During taxy.... the use of reverse thrust above reverse idle is not recommended due to the possibility of FOD.... Idle reverse thrust may be necessary on slippery surfaces to control speed while taxying'.
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I know for a fact Ryanair fly very fast approaches into DUB. I operate into there occasionally from LGW, and on one occasion we had a line up clearance cancelled after the ATCO reported an aircraft at 13 miles out doing 300 knots! We waited, and sure enough a Ryanair 737 came into view on the approach
don't they use speed control in DUB? or maybe the Approach guys like stitching up there tower controllers!!!
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FWIW, I too have seen Ryanair shut both engines down while taxying in.
Eng123 asked if it was a henious (heinous?) crime to do this, well it isn't the safest way to operate an aircraft. At least with an engine running you have a hydraulic pump backing up the accumulator.
Petrolhead
Eng123 asked if it was a henious (heinous?) crime to do this, well it isn't the safest way to operate an aircraft. At least with an engine running you have a hydraulic pump backing up the accumulator.
Petrolhead
Psychophysiological entity
We could do an abbreviated walk-round and ignore the buffeting and stresses of the last sector as a possible cause of making things come loose. Most of us could even arrive on stand with the walk round completed before the engines had stopped. We could ignore every bit of airmanship that we had learned over the last 40 years in the name of profit. I'm not pointing at any particular operator, but to say that it doesn't happen is the ultimate in denial. To say that some pilots, often at home base, are not encouraged to keep the pedal to the metal by ATC till one inch from touchdown is perhaps the penultimate in denial.
There is a very fine line between a good company man - nifty pilot - fine handler of planes.......and a jockey.
There is a very fine line between a good company man - nifty pilot - fine handler of planes.......and a jockey.
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I am a 737 Capt. at Southwest here on the other side of the pond. After reading this and returning from europe last week, it would seem that the Ryan Air bashing over there is reaching the same proportions that the Southwest bashing was here not too long ago. Yes, maybe we do things a little differently, so what...Sour grapes anyone? Remember all you at Ryan: Success is the ultimate revenge.
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Viking,
Easy does it, eh? I ADORE Southwest, but the smug "so what" and "Success is the ultimate revenge" just opens the door to pointing out specific events where doing things "differently" at Southwest led to some unpleasantness. Because I'm assuming you are who you say you are, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply suggest that you not present you and your employer as such a tempting target on this forum...
Dave
Easy does it, eh? I ADORE Southwest, but the smug "so what" and "Success is the ultimate revenge" just opens the door to pointing out specific events where doing things "differently" at Southwest led to some unpleasantness. Because I'm assuming you are who you say you are, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply suggest that you not present you and your employer as such a tempting target on this forum...
Dave
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It would be wise for any airline to learn the lessons of going too fast ... Southwest (and the two pilots) found out to their cost not too long ago, remember ??
Excessive airspeed and flight path angle caused crash
Excessive airspeed and flight path angle caused crash
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PPRuNe Radar
How many beers did you have before your posting? To give Joe Public the impression that when a 737 drops the gear 1 mile later on maybe a beautiful day (To all: no big deal, happens probably on every 5th approach worldwide) to safe some fuel it could maybe cause something like the SW accident, it is another story...
Ah, why am I wasting my time here, it won't help a thing. The next Ryainair does these, Ryainair does that thread comes up anyway.
How many beers did you have before your posting? To give Joe Public the impression that when a 737 drops the gear 1 mile later on maybe a beautiful day (To all: no big deal, happens probably on every 5th approach worldwide) to safe some fuel it could maybe cause something like the SW accident, it is another story...
Ah, why am I wasting my time here, it won't help a thing. The next Ryainair does these, Ryainair does that thread comes up anyway.
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Petrolhead,
Even with the engines shut down there is still hyd pressure available for braking from the electric pumps.I still can't think of any unsafe consequence of shutting down engines and coasting to a stop.
GCC,
I'm sorry if I sounded offensive to you.I don't mean any personal offence to yourself but I find topics that continually bash RYR irritating in the extreme and can't help myself defending the airline for whom I work and together with my colleagues operate in the most proffesional manner possible.
Even with the engines shut down there is still hyd pressure available for braking from the electric pumps.I still can't think of any unsafe consequence of shutting down engines and coasting to a stop.
GCC,
I'm sorry if I sounded offensive to you.I don't mean any personal offence to yourself but I find topics that continually bash RYR irritating in the extreme and can't help myself defending the airline for whom I work and together with my colleagues operate in the most proffesional manner possible.
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Burger Thing
Please read posts carefully before posting. Read what is said and not make assumptions or links which are not there.
It was a generic warning to all operators that excess speed can have consequences when it all goes wrong. Or did the FAA and some clever journo with Photoshop just make the whole thing up ???
The big big clue was the phrase ''any airline''. The fact you read it to mean specifically (i) Ryanair and specifically (ii) the incident raised by the poster, is your problem, not mine. I have flown them many a time and work them every day at work. I don't have a safety concern with them. Therefore I have not cast an aspersion on them, but merely ask everyone in the industry to learn the lessons of SWA.
Complacency (i.e look at our safety record, we're the greatest) and smugness (i.e. we're different so we must be the best) are dangerous attitudes for any airline to have when it comes to air safety. Fortunately it's not a culture I've met in airline Flight Safety officers, just the occasional wet behind the ears junior FOs.
Also, there was no reference in my post to dropping the gear late causing the SWA accident, least not that I could see.
So put your toys back in the pram.
Now, shuffle off to the bar, it's your round
Please read posts carefully before posting. Read what is said and not make assumptions or links which are not there.
It was a generic warning to all operators that excess speed can have consequences when it all goes wrong. Or did the FAA and some clever journo with Photoshop just make the whole thing up ???
The big big clue was the phrase ''any airline''. The fact you read it to mean specifically (i) Ryanair and specifically (ii) the incident raised by the poster, is your problem, not mine. I have flown them many a time and work them every day at work. I don't have a safety concern with them. Therefore I have not cast an aspersion on them, but merely ask everyone in the industry to learn the lessons of SWA.
Complacency (i.e look at our safety record, we're the greatest) and smugness (i.e. we're different so we must be the best) are dangerous attitudes for any airline to have when it comes to air safety. Fortunately it's not a culture I've met in airline Flight Safety officers, just the occasional wet behind the ears junior FOs.
Also, there was no reference in my post to dropping the gear late causing the SWA accident, least not that I could see.
So put your toys back in the pram. Now, shuffle off to the bar, it's your round
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Sorry!
I realize I came across looking quite smug. I know we've made our mistakes. My point was that there seems to an institutional arrogance at the big airlines, that their way is the best and only way to do things. When something new and different comes along the tendency is to criticize, and what better way to get a pilots goat, than to call him unsafe. The fact is that we all really don't know much about how things are done at other airlines and why.
I realize I came across looking quite smug. I know we've made our mistakes. My point was that there seems to an institutional arrogance at the big airlines, that their way is the best and only way to do things. When something new and different comes along the tendency is to criticize, and what better way to get a pilots goat, than to call him unsafe. The fact is that we all really don't know much about how things are done at other airlines and why.
Last edited by Viking; 8th Jul 2003 at 01:58.