RYANAIR.......WHY SO FAST!! (Seemingly)
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Viking
I'll throw my hat in the ring and pledge that SWA are not unsafe either.
Unsafe airlines are characterised by trends, and in trend terms both Ryanair and SWA's safety records are up with the best.
I guess I was just trying to highlight that even if you think you are the best then a series of circumstances or unsafe actions by individuals (which you can't legislate for) can soon bring it all crashing down around you.
And yes, even Ryanair have safety incidents which get reported and investigated. And show that they and their crews are not immune to doing things wrong.
The important thing is that the management recognise that such things happen and take as much action as possible to mitigate against it. Be it through SOPs, company culture, or whatever.
I have faith that both SWA and Ryanair do take safety seriously. However I don't think that they are in any way in a cast iron position to not have an accident in the future. I would rate it as remote, but not impossible as some of the more staunch supporters of the airline would have us believe.
Safety is NO accident.
Long may both airlines prosper. They give the public a service niche which they want, and employ a lot of people in this industry of ours.
PS I still think as a person that MOL is a
and wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire 
I'll throw my hat in the ring and pledge that SWA are not unsafe either.
Unsafe airlines are characterised by trends, and in trend terms both Ryanair and SWA's safety records are up with the best.
I guess I was just trying to highlight that even if you think you are the best then a series of circumstances or unsafe actions by individuals (which you can't legislate for) can soon bring it all crashing down around you.
And yes, even Ryanair have safety incidents which get reported and investigated. And show that they and their crews are not immune to doing things wrong.
The important thing is that the management recognise that such things happen and take as much action as possible to mitigate against it. Be it through SOPs, company culture, or whatever.
I have faith that both SWA and Ryanair do take safety seriously. However I don't think that they are in any way in a cast iron position to not have an accident in the future. I would rate it as remote, but not impossible as some of the more staunch supporters of the airline would have us believe.
Safety is NO accident.
Long may both airlines prosper. They give the public a service niche which they want, and employ a lot of people in this industry of ours.
PS I still think as a person that MOL is a
and wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire
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Somebody earlier brought up the Titanic as an analogy, and others have said that Ryanair has an impressive safety record. Some words to consider...
Captain Edward J Smith, RMS TITANIC
Time will tell.
"When anyone asks me how I can best describe my experiences of nearly forty years at sea, I merely say uneventful. I have never been in an accident of any sort worth speaking about....I never saw a wreck and have never been wrecked, nor was I ever in any predicament that threatened to end in disaster of any sort."
Time will tell.
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Going back to the shutting down engines thing...
Shutting down both engines as you trundle the last few feet on to the stand can't be a good idea. It's a bit pointless for fuel savings, and distracts you from the all important task of not hitting other vehicles on the apron, and indeed, the terminal building itself - that would be mighty embarrassing!
Nothing wrong with shutting one down on the taxi in IMHO, so long as the aircraft is light enough to get around on one/two/three (delete as ap't!) without blasting half of the ramp away. Saves fuel, noise, brakes. Seems like good airmanship to me, but does anyone else think differently?
Nothing wrong with shutting one down on the taxi in IMHO, so long as the aircraft is light enough to get around on one/two/three (delete as ap't!) without blasting half of the ramp away. Saves fuel, noise, brakes. Seems like good airmanship to me, but does anyone else think differently?
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We had a new hire Captain that thought it was cool to shut down both engines approaching the ramp, he's not longer employed by us.
The second part of your comment regarding single engine taxi is generally how its done by the majors.
The second part of your comment regarding single engine taxi is generally how its done by the majors.
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There have been a few occasions when I ended up stopping short and needed a bit of power to roll those last couple of feet...I suspect I would have felt a lot more embarassed if I had already shut the engines down.
Regarding taxiing with asymmetric power, I would imagine in the long run you would have undesirable stress on the nose gear.
Regarding taxiing with asymmetric power, I would imagine in the long run you would have undesirable stress on the nose gear.
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PPRuNe Radar My appologies. Maybe I was a bit harsh, Sorry, but I was really getting upset about all this Against-Ryainair-Nonsense. Some individuls are really trying to black-paint this particular airline for whatsoever reason. I find that a little bit sad, especially as in difficult times of our industry as these days. 
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jw411
I agree with you on Capt Numpty statement being a so called B777 driver.
The fact that he hasn't responded and even put this up in the first place speaks volumes.
Aircraft in the US do taxi on 1 or 2 ( if a 3 engine acft) to the holding point. Whenyou have a long taxi time & distance it is very common to see engines been started as an aircraft is number 2 or 3 to go. In places like KATL it can be very common to be nbr 28 in line for take off so i stand by my point...you can burn alot of fuel waiting for 30mins odd to go.
No im not a cowboy i take a professional pride in my career
but Capt Numpty is exactly what is says he is "A Numpty"
If he really was a B777 captain he wouldn't even be bringing this subject up...just another Ryan Air bashing.
A light walk around = a quick one and no i didn't get the engineers to do it for me when i was in UAL but they also did a check of the aircraft too and signed the Tech log off as well as me just like i said before....
Some people read what they want and then proceed to put their 2 size 12's in to the middle of it...
As stated above this is a pointless thread ....
The fact that he hasn't responded and even put this up in the first place speaks volumes.
Aircraft in the US do taxi on 1 or 2 ( if a 3 engine acft) to the holding point. Whenyou have a long taxi time & distance it is very common to see engines been started as an aircraft is number 2 or 3 to go. In places like KATL it can be very common to be nbr 28 in line for take off so i stand by my point...you can burn alot of fuel waiting for 30mins odd to go.
No im not a cowboy i take a professional pride in my career
but Capt Numpty is exactly what is says he is "A Numpty"
If he really was a B777 captain he wouldn't even be bringing this subject up...just another Ryan Air bashing.
A light walk around = a quick one and no i didn't get the engineers to do it for me when i was in UAL but they also did a check of the aircraft too and signed the Tech log off as well as me just like i said before....
Some people read what they want and then proceed to put their 2 size 12's in to the middle of it...
As stated above this is a pointless thread ....
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Eng123
<<<
GCC,
I'm sorry if I sounded offensive to you.I don't mean any personal offence to yourself but I find topics that continually bash RYR irritating in the extreme and can't help myself defending the airline for whom I work and together with my colleagues operate in the most proffesional manner possible.
>>>
That's fine, enough said. Others may bash Ryanair, but I haven't. In fact, I quite admire the company and its achievements, even if its commercial approach is a bit on the 'raw' side. As others point out, you know what you are buying with a Ryanair ticket. And, for avoidance of doubt, that's meant from the point of view of passenger support and convenience, not from the safety point of view. It's to try to understand the safety point of view better that I come to a website like this in the first place, and even ask the occasional question. Overall, I think most people without any axe to grind can intelligently balance the competing views and conclude that a) while nothing is perfect, and b) lack of any prior serious incident to date means something but only so much, Ryanair is a fundamentally safe operation.
<<<
GCC,
I'm sorry if I sounded offensive to you.I don't mean any personal offence to yourself but I find topics that continually bash RYR irritating in the extreme and can't help myself defending the airline for whom I work and together with my colleagues operate in the most proffesional manner possible.
>>>
That's fine, enough said. Others may bash Ryanair, but I haven't. In fact, I quite admire the company and its achievements, even if its commercial approach is a bit on the 'raw' side. As others point out, you know what you are buying with a Ryanair ticket. And, for avoidance of doubt, that's meant from the point of view of passenger support and convenience, not from the safety point of view. It's to try to understand the safety point of view better that I come to a website like this in the first place, and even ask the occasional question. Overall, I think most people without any axe to grind can intelligently balance the competing views and conclude that a) while nothing is perfect, and b) lack of any prior serious incident to date means something but only so much, Ryanair is a fundamentally safe operation.
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Carrying on from what my ATC colleagues have already said, I feel I have to point out that Ryanair's "expeditious" taxiing can help us all out, and you don't hear too many complaints then! How many times have you seen a Ryanair crew dawdle on a backtrack, miss the turnoff or cruise into the apron when asked to expedite. Not many complaints when you're No.2 to the Ryanair!!
Their crews do tend to be quick on the approach, but as stated above, it is really a failing of ATC not to have applied some speed control if that's going to present a problem. In most cases (at our unit anyway) you can rely on them to close up a gap if you need them to, or slow down if you need them to - simple as that!
That said, I've only twice ever flown as a punter with FR, and don't plan to do it again in the near future! Sorry guys, but it was a bit too much like a school trip - I'm a bit old for that these days.
Their crews do tend to be quick on the approach, but as stated above, it is really a failing of ATC not to have applied some speed control if that's going to present a problem. In most cases (at our unit anyway) you can rely on them to close up a gap if you need them to, or slow down if you need them to - simple as that!
That said, I've only twice ever flown as a punter with FR, and don't plan to do it again in the near future! Sorry guys, but it was a bit too much like a school trip - I'm a bit old for that these days.
stargazer02:
As you say, Captain Numpty is as likely to have a 777 rating as I am to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury.
Incidentally, my own record was joining the JFK congo line one particularly foul winter's night as No.54 (it went up to No.78 at one point).
We were on the ground for over four hours before take-off and I was only using the centre engine and the APU.
I do remember an old piece of folklore about an AA DC-10 crew who were using the wing engines in such a situation and forgot to start No.2 before take-off! They apparently survived this interesting experience.
As you say, Captain Numpty is as likely to have a 777 rating as I am to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury.
Incidentally, my own record was joining the JFK congo line one particularly foul winter's night as No.54 (it went up to No.78 at one point).
We were on the ground for over four hours before take-off and I was only using the centre engine and the APU.
I do remember an old piece of folklore about an AA DC-10 crew who were using the wing engines in such a situation and forgot to start No.2 before take-off! They apparently survived this interesting experience.
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What a shame that this post has apparently become a personal Sh1t throwing exercise!! Albeit, I am delighted to see it has rallied some considerable interest.
Whilst I note what my fellow colleagues Stargazer & JW411 have to say about me, I do not feel there is anymore to be gained by having to justify my position & ratings with individuals such as these.
However, I am warmed by the some of the other comments and observations made here by other colleagues within our industry, who, seemingly support the jist of the original post/ comments made.......
Thanks guys, for we can't ALL be wrong can we !?!?
Cheers
C.N.
Whilst I note what my fellow colleagues Stargazer & JW411 have to say about me, I do not feel there is anymore to be gained by having to justify my position & ratings with individuals such as these.
However, I am warmed by the some of the other comments and observations made here by other colleagues within our industry, who, seemingly support the jist of the original post/ comments made.......
Thanks guys, for we can't ALL be wrong can we !?!?
Cheers
C.N.
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Captain Numpty
No probably not. Which is the primary reason why my family and I stopped flying with Ryanair.
I am not a pilot, nor am I expert when it comes to matters aviation but what I do know is that the last time I flew with Ryanair they scared the life out of me. Which is something that Buzz, BA, Sabena, Lufthansa and a host of other airlines have never managed to do, despite some pretty rough trips over the years.
I have been accused of Ryanair bashing before, (as it seems is anybody who dares to ask a simple question about them), so I am not going to dwell on the subject for too long. However, my gut feeling is that there is no smoke without fire.
Perhaps I am wrong, but I would rather not take the risk.
We can't ALL be wrong, can we?
I am not a pilot, nor am I expert when it comes to matters aviation but what I do know is that the last time I flew with Ryanair they scared the life out of me. Which is something that Buzz, BA, Sabena, Lufthansa and a host of other airlines have never managed to do, despite some pretty rough trips over the years.
I have been accused of Ryanair bashing before, (as it seems is anybody who dares to ask a simple question about them), so I am not going to dwell on the subject for too long. However, my gut feeling is that there is no smoke without fire.
Perhaps I am wrong, but I would rather not take the risk.
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spitoon
i can't see from my post where you think i have the attitude of " we'll get away with taxiing fast if we can"
i merely pointed out that if the aircraft were deemed to be taxiing too fast that ATC or the airport management unit would advise the crew but that from the side of the plane looking out to the untrained eye it can look alot faster than it actually was.
Since the NUMPTY wasn't jump seating and merely observing then he wasn't able to comment on the actual speed.
Finally Capt Numpty.....you say that you are sad this has become a sh it throwing contest......
Well he who stirrs Sh it as you do......get's splashed by it....as you were....
You really are a numpty....if you ever go to Scotland ask the folks there the meaning of your name and you will realise just what a NUMPTY you really are.....
Good luck in your BIG B777 ( if you really have one...perhaps a model one)...next time im crusing at FL450 ill say hello and dump the lav on ya.
I don't care what types people fly but really your attitude is just back inthe playschool playground....
i merely pointed out that if the aircraft were deemed to be taxiing too fast that ATC or the airport management unit would advise the crew but that from the side of the plane looking out to the untrained eye it can look alot faster than it actually was.
Since the NUMPTY wasn't jump seating and merely observing then he wasn't able to comment on the actual speed.
Finally Capt Numpty.....you say that you are sad this has become a sh it throwing contest......
Well he who stirrs Sh it as you do......get's splashed by it....as you were....
You really are a numpty....if you ever go to Scotland ask the folks there the meaning of your name and you will realise just what a NUMPTY you really are.....
Good luck in your BIG B777 ( if you really have one...perhaps a model one)...next time im crusing at FL450 ill say hello and dump the lav on ya.
I don't care what types people fly but really your attitude is just back inthe playschool playground....
I call you back
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It is amazing how many people have strong opinions on subjects they know little about.
Just a few points ( not intended as FR bashing ):
If shutting down engines before stopping is non SOP then it is unprofessional by the skipper. If it is SOP then it is unprofessional by the airline. While the 737 has two electrical hydraulic pumps if as has been mentioned the APU fails or autoshuts down what happens? I would guess this procedure is not approved by FR.
To the best of my knowledge FR like most European carriers nowadays don't have an engineer at every turnaround. The cockpit crews walk-around is the one and only. The seriousness of this is obvious. I'm sure the culprit was told in training like the rest of us what is required. If an inexperienced co-jo hasn't grasped this yet it is hardly the fault of management.
Eng123. It is common knowledge and sometimes apparant that a number of FR crews use Rev to slow during taxi. I have heard speculation ( rumours only I know ) that without brake fans and quick turnarounds it might keep the temperatures down. You would know this better than I would. The real question is, again, is it SOP? If not then the skipper doing it is behaving unprofessionally.
There have been all sorts of posts about fast approaches and ATC speed control. Dub have tried to introduce this but with only moderate success. The reason for this is obvious, a number of the locals ignore the speed controls. FR are guilty of this but they are not the only ones. ( BTW if an aircraft is at 13 miles and you are at the holding point it is absurd to suggest there isn't enough separation for a departure )
Safety is not to be taken for granted. Those who brag about safety records walk a dangerous road. You don't ever hear Qantas bragging. It is way too important. FR like everyone have their incidents, the only odd thing is the media always seem to ignore them. Everyone saw the photo of the Euroceltic in Sligo but the FR in Charleroi two weeks earlier never even got a mention.
Any non-aviators reading this might think my suggesting that someone was unprofessional is saying they are not safe. That is not the case. If you shut down both engines before stopping it is unprofessional but it is not unsafe. Likewise using reverse thrust during taxi although with FOD ingestion you may reduce the life of the engine.
Also reading this thread you might think FR pilots might be the only ones to do such things. This is not the case either. FR attract more negative attention because I would suggest their CX makes enemies everywhere.
Last point to Dub ATCO. Just because an aircraft doesn't go-around from an approach doesn't mean the approach wasn't flown too fast. It just means the crew didn't take the sensible and safe option of exercising a go-around. This isn't an FR exclusive either.
Just a few points ( not intended as FR bashing ):
If shutting down engines before stopping is non SOP then it is unprofessional by the skipper. If it is SOP then it is unprofessional by the airline. While the 737 has two electrical hydraulic pumps if as has been mentioned the APU fails or autoshuts down what happens? I would guess this procedure is not approved by FR.
To the best of my knowledge FR like most European carriers nowadays don't have an engineer at every turnaround. The cockpit crews walk-around is the one and only. The seriousness of this is obvious. I'm sure the culprit was told in training like the rest of us what is required. If an inexperienced co-jo hasn't grasped this yet it is hardly the fault of management.
Eng123. It is common knowledge and sometimes apparant that a number of FR crews use Rev to slow during taxi. I have heard speculation ( rumours only I know ) that without brake fans and quick turnarounds it might keep the temperatures down. You would know this better than I would. The real question is, again, is it SOP? If not then the skipper doing it is behaving unprofessionally.
There have been all sorts of posts about fast approaches and ATC speed control. Dub have tried to introduce this but with only moderate success. The reason for this is obvious, a number of the locals ignore the speed controls. FR are guilty of this but they are not the only ones. ( BTW if an aircraft is at 13 miles and you are at the holding point it is absurd to suggest there isn't enough separation for a departure )
Safety is not to be taken for granted. Those who brag about safety records walk a dangerous road. You don't ever hear Qantas bragging. It is way too important. FR like everyone have their incidents, the only odd thing is the media always seem to ignore them. Everyone saw the photo of the Euroceltic in Sligo but the FR in Charleroi two weeks earlier never even got a mention.
Any non-aviators reading this might think my suggesting that someone was unprofessional is saying they are not safe. That is not the case. If you shut down both engines before stopping it is unprofessional but it is not unsafe. Likewise using reverse thrust during taxi although with FOD ingestion you may reduce the life of the engine.
Also reading this thread you might think FR pilots might be the only ones to do such things. This is not the case either. FR attract more negative attention because I would suggest their CX makes enemies everywhere.
Last point to Dub ATCO. Just because an aircraft doesn't go-around from an approach doesn't mean the approach wasn't flown too fast. It just means the crew didn't take the sensible and safe option of exercising a go-around. This isn't an FR exclusive either.
Captain Numpty:
I have just seen your last posting and I cannot let it pass without comment. Your opening post on this thread was as sh*t-stirring as it is possible to get. Anyone with even half a brain should realise that if a lot of sh*t is thrown around then some of it will surely land back on his or her own head.
Even a brand new professional pilot with just a modicum of experience would realise that spacing and speed control on the approach in controlled airspace is the responsibility of ATC and not left to the whim of individual pilots. To imagine that Ryanair or any other airline could go around breaking speed limits without the knowledge and approval of ATC is frankly laughable.
For anyone with a 777 rating not to know this is inconceivable. If you really have got a 777 rating and don't know about such fundamentals then you are a danger to yourself and everyone else around you.
Frankly, I have come to the conclusion that you are a sciolist.
Incidentally, you still haven't told us why you were flying Ryanair and what it was that they did to rattle your cage in the first place.
If I were you I would bury Captain Numpty and get yourself a new callsign for nobody is going to take Captain Numpty seriously ever again. Next time, don't comment upon matters of which you have little knowledge.
I have just seen your last posting and I cannot let it pass without comment. Your opening post on this thread was as sh*t-stirring as it is possible to get. Anyone with even half a brain should realise that if a lot of sh*t is thrown around then some of it will surely land back on his or her own head.
Even a brand new professional pilot with just a modicum of experience would realise that spacing and speed control on the approach in controlled airspace is the responsibility of ATC and not left to the whim of individual pilots. To imagine that Ryanair or any other airline could go around breaking speed limits without the knowledge and approval of ATC is frankly laughable.
For anyone with a 777 rating not to know this is inconceivable. If you really have got a 777 rating and don't know about such fundamentals then you are a danger to yourself and everyone else around you.
Frankly, I have come to the conclusion that you are a sciolist.
Incidentally, you still haven't told us why you were flying Ryanair and what it was that they did to rattle your cage in the first place.
If I were you I would bury Captain Numpty and get yourself a new callsign for nobody is going to take Captain Numpty seriously ever again. Next time, don't comment upon matters of which you have little knowledge.
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Hey guys, I have been with Ryanair some time now and I hqve flown both the 200 and the 800. Our pilot body is as diverse as it can be with pilots ranging from South Africa to Canada and from New Zealand to Chile. Over 650 pilots from SAS, SABENA SwissAir Britannia, Air New Zealand, South African AIrways, British Airways and on and on. I cannot immagine that these guys became unproffesional the day they walked through the door. The 800 fleet does not use Reverse Thrust during taxi, the 200 does. We do not shut down both engines prior to arriving on to stand. The Ryanair SOPS call for a continious descent and for a low drag approach being fully configured by 800 feet that is full flaps gear down and thrust for landing speed bug +5. The low drag approach is not applicable during low vis, or for non precision approaches, or if ATC requires other speeds
We fly 80 hours a month four sectors a day many non precision approaches and a few circle to lands in places like Carcassone or Genova, and I personally do not know of any skipper who would jeoperdise his/her licence and the safety of 189 passengers plus crew to satisfy any commercial pressures. I have never felt any commercial pressures in my nine years with Ryanair. Does this mean that we could not have an accident? No way we just believe that if it happens it will not be because any of us deliberetely brake rules or push the aircraft to the limits. We just come to work for a nice easy and pleasant day, take the money and go home
We fly 80 hours a month four sectors a day many non precision approaches and a few circle to lands in places like Carcassone or Genova, and I personally do not know of any skipper who would jeoperdise his/her licence and the safety of 189 passengers plus crew to satisfy any commercial pressures. I have never felt any commercial pressures in my nine years with Ryanair. Does this mean that we could not have an accident? No way we just believe that if it happens it will not be because any of us deliberetely brake rules or push the aircraft to the limits. We just come to work for a nice easy and pleasant day, take the money and go home
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Time for me to just tell everyone that I will allow a certain amount of 'steam' but I am also here to tell you that the most recent posts are heading towards the unacceptable. Please do not enter into slagging matches. Think about what you are saying in your posts before hitting the submit button.
I do have a very interesting little device that I can use to stop anyone making any further uneccessary remarks. Just cool it. It is an interesting thread.
As a matter of fact I was on board a FR flight to PIK recently and I estimated the taxi speed to be around 40kts at STN! I personally think that is way too high. But the operation itself was slick in both directions.
PPP
I do have a very interesting little device that I can use to stop anyone making any further uneccessary remarks. Just cool it. It is an interesting thread.
As a matter of fact I was on board a FR flight to PIK recently and I estimated the taxi speed to be around 40kts at STN! I personally think that is way too high. But the operation itself was slick in both directions.
PPP
If you're not a current or former airline pilot or an ATCO then I struggle to find your opinion or observations interesting on this thread.
If you are qualified to have an opinion on this then I am interested to know which airline you would hold FRA up against when comparing safety records. I can't think of any airline that would particularly outshine FRA. I can think of several that have had both closer shaves and more incidents/accidents than FRA.
Which makes one wonder why FRA safety is such a recurring theme on PPRuNe.
I suspect if they were run by Mike Olery out of a EGSS HQ and had G as their first letter of registration then this recurring theme, wouldn't. Brilliant British success story would be more the attitude with a dollop of lets give Mike an OBE'ism thrown in.
A good size fleet, using busy airspace to plenty of Cat B & C airfields for well over a decade and they haven't hurt anyone yet.
Thats not bad. Better than some.
WWW
If you are qualified to have an opinion on this then I am interested to know which airline you would hold FRA up against when comparing safety records. I can't think of any airline that would particularly outshine FRA. I can think of several that have had both closer shaves and more incidents/accidents than FRA.
Which makes one wonder why FRA safety is such a recurring theme on PPRuNe.
I suspect if they were run by Mike Olery out of a EGSS HQ and had G as their first letter of registration then this recurring theme, wouldn't. Brilliant British success story would be more the attitude with a dollop of lets give Mike an OBE'ism thrown in.
A good size fleet, using busy airspace to plenty of Cat B & C airfields for well over a decade and they haven't hurt anyone yet.
Thats not bad. Better than some.
WWW
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Hear, Hear
now can we Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz close this thread
Pprune Pop......i think some of those bad boy points you have should be sent to Capt Numpty to stirring this rubbish in the first place.
now can we Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz close this thread
Pprune Pop......i think some of those bad boy points you have should be sent to Capt Numpty to stirring this rubbish in the first place.