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Airside IDs & Five Years of References!

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Airside IDs & Five Years of References!

Old 28th Jun 2003, 06:04
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Question Airside IDs & Five Years of References!

I see that to obtain an airside pass in the UK you must now be able to supply five years of employment references, with no gaps in your work history; give two personal references from people who have known you for five years & also pass a criminal record check.

Does anyone else get the feeling that the authorities are taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut? If you have passed a criminal record check & you can supply employment references from your previous employer as well as a personal referee, then where on earth does the five year requirement fit in? Why not make it 10 years, or how about no gaps since you left school! I think that many people are going to lose potential jobs over this one, particularly our colleagues from the wannabe forums who may have gaps in their employment history because they were training, waiting for courses, working cash in hand etc. & what about the guys & gals who have spent time travelling abroad?

I know that we must take security issues seriously but this seems an illogical step to take but, as usual, an easy one to implement for the authorities & we all know that they must be seen to be doing something. Any thoughts on this one?

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Old 28th Jun 2003, 06:54
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Isn't it just for 'Restricted Area' DfT designated areas, rather than all airside passes?
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Old 28th Jun 2003, 15:47
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Never mind the wannabes, there are some more mature fellow pilots out here who have considerable gaps in their employment history!

I would have thought this edict, if true, breaks certain aspects of the European rules concerning employment etc.
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Old 28th Jun 2003, 16:58
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DETRA have decided that from the 1st of July this year you will need to produce a 'Basic Disclosure Certificate' to accompany any airside ID application to a UK airport.

This means that you (or your employer) will have to seek one from a company called DisclosureScotland who will have the sole rights to provide it.

A 'Basic' disclosure will involve providing a certificate listing any unspent criminal convictions that you still have outstanding under the Rehabliltation of offenders act 1974. This works on the sentence you got, not what you did. If your conviction is unspent, and is one that is prohibited by DETRA (Which is just about anything covering violence and dishonesty) your application will be refused by the airport authority. Thus without the ability to gain airside access you will lose your job, even if your employer is happy with your past.

There is no proposal as far as I am aware to provide five years history and references, but that is up to the individual airport authority. Thus I would not be surprised to see some overzealous manager decide that it's a good idea. However at present it is not a DETRA requirement.

BALPA reckon that many pilots will now lose their jobs due to the fact that any prison sentence of over two and half years is never able to be spent. Thus those that maybe did something twenty or thirty years ago in their youth, may now have their careers recked by some kneejerk reaction by the DofT.

BALPA are fighting this from the civil rights front, and many of you would be well advised to write to your MP's complaining that not too many suicide bombers live long enough to get criminal records to check up on!!

Oh and of course they have removed acts of homosexualty and sex with animals from the list, so along with the fact that death by dangerous driving is OK, then you can roger a sheep whilst driving around the M25 on a Friday afternoon killing hundreds in the ensuing pile up. But that's New Labour for you I guess!


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Old 28th Jun 2003, 17:54
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The disclosure cert will cost you 14.00 but with all this new aviation work I am sure they will soon increase the cost.

Surely no one should have any concerns providing they tell the truth at the outset.
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Old 29th Jun 2003, 01:59
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I wonder if members of the current Government would pass the test? I would have thought that at least 6 would have fairly thick files with the Intelligence Agencies as former Communists and fellow travellers.
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Old 29th Jun 2003, 02:42
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I am aware fo the 'Basic Disclosure Certificate' & you are correct HZ123 if you have nothing to hide then it's just a formality. My concern is with the need to supply five years of references without any gaps.

For example this quote taken from Brittania's website:-

"Please note that regulations issued by BAA airports for a security ID pass are as follows:

Five years employment references without any gaps."

Therefore if you cannot supply the said references then you cannot be employed by any airline that is based at a BAA airport because, quite simply, you will be unable to get an airside pass!
How many of us have worked for now defunct companies? Please remember that they are looking for five years without any gaps, how easy would it be to get a reference from a company that has ceased trading? The crazy situation is made ridiculous when you consider that you can obtain an airside ID from a non BAA airport & you then have the right to go airside on a BAA airport!

Any security measures that help to keep us safe & to boost the confidence of the fare paying public should be welcomed but this is just another hurdle aimed at the very people who keep the aviation industry going in the UK. It has made it more difficult both to get your first break into commercial aviation & to change employer. I get the feeling that they must be seen to be doing something, whatever that something may be.
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Old 29th Jun 2003, 15:39
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Cool

In FRA you need to give 10 years worth of history to get an airside pass. Good huh??
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Old 29th Jun 2003, 21:06
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Is this change anything to do with the (rumoured) person who was selling boarding passes and getting people onto the ramp?

May just be an urban myth but hear the other day that someone was done for this, charging several thousand for each person. Since it was supposed to happen at LHR, it may well not be true. On the other hand, stranger things have happened at LHR ...
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Old 30th Jun 2003, 20:13
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The crazy situation is made ridiculous when you consider that you can obtain an airside ID from a non BAA airport & you then have the right to go airside on a BAA airport!
Not true I'm afraid. The DTR directive was issued to most airports and aerodromes in the U.K. I have the list but it is far too long to repeat here.

To clarify a few other points:
The directive is in force as from JUL this year. However a years grace is granted for exisiting pass holders to complete the Criminal record check. So us Guys with passes have until JUL 04 to get this sorted.

With regards to the 5 year history see the extract below:

In order to retain or apply for a full pass an exisiting or new employee shall be required to complete and sign the pass application form giving details of his education,training and employment during the preceding 5 years or since the age of 16, whichever is the shorter period
This could well pose a problem for some. However it does not say how many you must have or that you would be penalised for having a years gap between two. That needs some clarification.

My opinon? Instead of wasting money on extra staff to plough through this paperwork how about extra staff to actually check out the references they already have!


Last edited by You splitter; 30th Jun 2003 at 21:39.
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Old 4th Jul 2003, 19:03
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Hi all,

Does anyone have the contact details for DETRA...? I've tried www.detra.gov.uk with no luck.

Thanks in advance


TNB
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Old 4th Jul 2003, 19:31
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TNB. Try the following link:

www.transec.dft.gov.uk
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Old 5th Jul 2003, 00:33
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"In FRA you need to give 10 years worth of history to get an airside pass."

What so a 19 year old baggage handler / cabin crew / pilot has to provide references from the age of 9?!

I can just see it now, asking my primary school teachers to prove my work history!
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Old 5th Jul 2003, 05:59
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Try this one: twenty plus years with employer A, including over ten years with a BAA pass. leaving to join employer B who operates from another BAA airport. All references taken up OK. HOWEVER, I then left employer A some three weeks before joining employer B. New references were required, to cover the "missing" three weeks. And no, I hadn't spent those three weeks in Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea......... All now sorted, I look forward to July 2004 when presumably it will all have to be gone through again.
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Old 11th Aug 2003, 19:41
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For the record there is NO basic disclosure at the moment only Standard/Exten which lists everything anybody has done spent on unspent. So the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 means nothing any more.
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Old 12th Aug 2003, 19:07
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fish basic disclosure

basic disclosure was available from disclosure scotland from 1/4/03 lists only unspent convictions not all of which are disqualifying
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Old 12th Aug 2003, 19:16
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The new requirements may be a pain in the butt, but they are necessary, and overdue.

Many cleaners and ground handlers are immigrants, and many of those have been using false IDs. The new checks are starting to filter these out - I have seen a man of Asian origin who produced a forged passport and a fraudulently obtained driving licence to obtain his ID at a Very Big Airport.

So how would you fancy the knowledge that some of the people working in and around your aircraft are recent arrivals in the UK who are under a false ID? It's a bit like asking for trouble isn't it?

Sorry, but security is a pain, and always will be, but while there are people out there trying to kill you, it will have to be endured.
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Old 13th Aug 2003, 02:28
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I have also heard that if for example, you work for Airline XXX, and the current pass you hold then expires; you have to re-apply for another pass and go through the whole rigmarole anyway, regardless if you have worked for them in excess of the
"5 years"or not.

This opens a very lage can of worms I suppose, depending on what offences are on "The List" and as a previous poster has already stated, so much for the rehabilitation of offenders act 1974.

There is always the European Court of Human Rights I guess.
I'm sure they will deem a spent conviction as just that, otherwise there could be a lot of new openings for newbies/wannabes.
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Old 13th Aug 2003, 05:07
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I have worked at Manch for 33 years, [for the same Co,{CAA/NATS} and now have to take my passport/Co.reference/NI.no for my [re]new[ed] pass. The mind Bogless
At least, the Co pay for my [lack of] criminal past
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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Old 13th Aug 2003, 05:28
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In Canada you also go through a criminal records check with no restriction as to only going back a certain number of years. You also have to provide all relevent information on your parents, your spouse and your spouse's parents. But this was the case even prior to 9/11. Most of it was a result of Air India 18 years ago.
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