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B.A. and BACE

Old 10th Jun 2002, 08:49
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Question B.A. and BACE

A straight question to my ex BRAL/Manx/Brymon colleagues.

May we have a list of what we think has got better with our operation since we became part of B.A. , and are now run by B.A. Managers using their Corporate and managerial techniques ?

Shall I start us off? We are now the beneficiaries of endless communication cascades which inform us of our management culture, the management aims, the management meetings - which decide our privileges, our structure changes, our SOP changes, our base closures and our (er) prospects.

Who's next?
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Old 10th Jun 2002, 11:06
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Thumbs down


I'm not BRAL, but mainline and I feel it's appropriate to reply to your post as I'm equally frustrated by endless "management" waste.

Rather than an atmosphere of "them and us" i.e. BRAL/Manx/Brymon vs BA mainline, I think we need to concentrate on putting the pilot workforce first and put pressure on BALPA to use more modern tactics to persuade, at board level, that the culture needs to change.

I have recently had need to speak with several of our lower level managers, and they struck me as being most ineffective. As an airline BA is still suffering from having been a nationalised industry and we really need to get rid of the deadwood and have a more modern approach.

Perhaps we should waste hundreds of managers man hours, corporate office space and executive catering trying to decide the way forward . . . . Oh, yes we've just done that - Future Size and Shape. Sadly the reason that over management was not addressed as an issue, was because they were precisely the people that were deciding our future.

No, what we really need to do is get BALPA to go to the board and point out the way we all feel, after all that's why we have a union. Perhaps then, the airline will stop haemorrhaging cash and you might be more content with the airline you work for. I know I would - either that or go over to the dark side and become a manager yourself and try to change the airline from within. However with past experience I wouldn't recommend the latter.

Good luck with you future within BA - I think we all need it.

Mini mums
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Old 10th Jun 2002, 14:30
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It's always the problem, isn't it? If top-level management asks for a study of inefficiencies, it gets passed on to middle-level management for implementation. The job is so large, they need a couple more people, then they plan it all, and lower-level management do the work, but not after needing to take on a few more people to handle the extra workload. They'd never vote themselves out of a job, because someone has to write all the memos and progress reports and vision statements and corporate communications and plan the next corporate identity change. The results pass up the chain to middle-level, where anything criticising the endless waste of middle management is weeded out. The end results go to the top, where they conclude that management as a whole is performing wonderfully. What is really needed, they conclude, is for the workforce to be more productive. Have them all work harder, cut minimum fuel, shorten minimum rest, restrict aircrew salaries. Whippings will continue until the morale of the crew improves.

Good - successful review. I think we all now need to award ourselves a bonus for a job well done!
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Old 10th Jun 2002, 22:34
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James Thin,

You should re-address your post to just Manx/Bral employees, as Brymon has been under BA Management for years.

The only time we really started to feel like everything was falling apart was when BA put us with Manx/Bral. How many flight ops managers, and all of them f**king useless, and nearly all Manx/Bral. The only ones whom knew which direction the company needed to turn were Brymon, and those inbred idiots ignored them.

Island mentallity in Europes largest regional airline...... Mmmmm, thats really gonna work!

Can't wait to watch them all be released from their duties, one by one. It'll be like pulling teeth, but thoroughly enjoyable to see those Fraggle twits being treated as second class citizens! Similar to way they have treated ex-Brymon!
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Old 11th Jun 2002, 10:30
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I did initially think that AOG was being a bit divisive with his post, (being BRAL myself) however when I look at the actuality of it all, I realise he's right. Our best guy has stepped down, we have under performers as CPs, most of our Fleet Management is busy brownnosing the TDLF new entry, (with CPtech the worst offender there!) and a total shambles in crewing and rostering.

I agree with Minimums too. If cabin crew can pull mass sickies to make a point, then maybe we should too!

Captain Baldrick - you sound like you work for BA too.

WHAT IS THE USE!!!!!!???????
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Old 11th Jun 2002, 18:45
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Couldn't agree more, Nigel. Just look at the way that Timmy's trying to turn the existing ex-BRAL Captains into some sort of "B-scale" by keeping them at their present paypoints whilst new promotions get paid more!

Trouble brewing at mill methinks.

Cymru am byth!
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Old 12th Jun 2002, 07:31
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When a workforce loses respect and trust in its management the days of that company or that management team are numbered.

David Evans and co need to open their ears and eyes and understand the message which is being given loud and clear.

The BACX workforce have no trust or respect for their management because they are treated with contempt and incompetence.

Its quite simple really.

Lose the management team and ethos or lose the company to Deloittes or Touche or whoever 'cause presently its going nowhere but down.
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Old 12th Jun 2002, 14:48
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Red face

When I'm doing a Line Check, or an LPC, or a Loftex, I am usually encouraged to DODAR. I am constantly told that the last 'D' is the most important one, continually REVIEW things, and change my actions and decisions to accommodate new information. If the decisions need changing, then do so. I am told the worst thing I can do is 'Try and get in at any cost', to try and make events fit my plans rather than the reverse.

I think our management would be well advised to DODAR. They insist on plowing full speed ahead with the same plan, even when it is clear to all that it is not working. Instead of competing to see who can be the hardest nosed macho manager, they should take a reality check.
The whole culture is wrong, and that's why I'm going orange - that is a place where they really DO realise that their employees are their biggest asset, and they treat them as such.
Oddly enough, they seem to pay very good rates, and weirdly, they make huge profits. Do you think they may just be doing something right?

How foolish of me - nope, our way is best! More floggings and all all leave cancelled until morale improves. In the meantime, lets cancel a few more flights!!
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Old 22nd Jun 2002, 13:18
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Red face

I don`t think BALPA are the right people to talk to BA regards our feelings on the amount of paperwork - memos, communiques etc - that are becoming an endless stream into our daily working lives.. The number of letters I recieve from BALPA, all posted first class to boot is ridiculous. It would be a real case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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