Smoking on the flight-deck
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Smoking on the flight-deck
I have recently begun my career as an airline pilot with the big Irish mob and in most respects love my job-- lots of flying, great aircraft and destinations but one thing spoils it for me! About 20% of the Captains smoke on the flight deck -- continuously! And if that isn't bad enough some of them smoke cigars and also invite the cabin crew up to join them for a fag in flight! A few of them ask me if I mind but on the one occasion that I objected it ruined the working day as the guy then gave me a hard time from then on! Rather naively I had assumed that all smoking stopped on aircraft many years ago so this down-side to my new occupation was unexpected. The 737 flightdeck is a tiny office and I go home feeling as if I have chain-smoked a whole packet myself! ( I have never voluntarily smoked a single cigarette in my life!) Is this common with most UK airlines or is Ryanair unusual in this regard.
They put out a Memo to pilots some years ago but no-one seems to take any notice. Talking to some of my other FO friends I am told that they suffer the same problem but our positions as FO's in this rapidly expanding operation are too exposed for us to do anything. Any suggestions???
They put out a Memo to pilots some years ago but no-one seems to take any notice. Talking to some of my other FO friends I am told that they suffer the same problem but our positions as FO's in this rapidly expanding operation are too exposed for us to do anything. Any suggestions???
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Is it legal to smoke in an aircraft there f_a? It is ILlegal to smoke ANYWHERE onboard an aircraft in many countries now.
Aside from the health reasons mentioned previously (along with the liability of the company, the responsibility of which is entrusted to the Captain of each flight, and who therefore may possibly be held PERSONALLY responsible at some future date for allowing this to happen), there is the STINK.
Smokers STINK...their breath, their clothes, their hair.
Perhaps a letter to the Chief Pilot stating that you`ve noticed some of the company`s aircraft flight decks have a strong stink of tobacco and need deodorising, might do the trick!
Inconsiderate @ssholes!
Aside from the health reasons mentioned previously (along with the liability of the company, the responsibility of which is entrusted to the Captain of each flight, and who therefore may possibly be held PERSONALLY responsible at some future date for allowing this to happen), there is the STINK.
Smokers STINK...their breath, their clothes, their hair.
Perhaps a letter to the Chief Pilot stating that you`ve noticed some of the company`s aircraft flight decks have a strong stink of tobacco and need deodorising, might do the trick!
Inconsiderate @ssholes!
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Totally agree - how will they handle the claims for compensation from those who get lung cancer as passive recipients of the filth despatched from those that should know better.
Perhaps their medicals will be due soon and they will be despatched out of the system.
Perhaps their medicals will be due soon and they will be despatched out of the system.
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Unfortunately the ethos in this company is " stay invisible" if you want to go places. Virtually no FO would be be prepared to "raise his or her head above the parapet in case it gets shot off". Virtually every FO that I talk to hates this imposition but is too scared to risk his/her career by complaining or resisting the practise. Perhaps the discussion here will leak back to the management and bring about change! I can only live in hope as this is probably one of the worst features of the job!
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I know of two first officers who were given a hard time by the smokers. The company has a total ban on smoking on the aircraft.
The ban was not enforced.
The problem only resolved itself when the smokers retired.
MP
The ban was not enforced.
The problem only resolved itself when the smokers retired.
MP
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I've talked to some of my contemporaries in other UK (CAA) airlines and it seems that Flight Deck smoking has pretty much died out. In the case of FR the growth rate and relative anarchy of the operation seems to preclude any effective control. Personally-- I don't care if people smoke as long as it doesn't affect others. What amazes me in this situation is that the smokers consider it their right to inflict this filthy and dangerous habit on others such as myself. On top of that the flight decks can become dirty smelly places for the next crew taking over-- remember these aircraft only get cleaned once in 24 hours and even then not very thoroughly.
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There are a couple of options.
Firstly, if you check, you will find that it is illegal to smoke airside at many airports. This includes on the aircraft. You could perhaps arrange a "spot check" to happen. Or you could mention this, in writing, to the company and ask if you are allowed to smoke or not.
Second, if the Captain wants to smoke, tell him that that is fine, but you will leave the flight deck for the duration.
Third, take up a foul smelling habit yourself. One good plan is to get a really strong smelling deodorant or aftershave and spray it about liberally either during or after the smoking.
This is a health and safety issue. You should perhaps query it again with the company, in writing, and ask them where you stand.
The company I work for used to allow smoking on the flight deck. It was then banned. And everyone managed to get through even long haul sectors without a cigarette.
Now the company I work for has banned smoking airside too, after one crew had a "spot check" and received a warning as it was illegal.
Some people go off to find a smoking area during turnround, but most don't. Some have taken the opportunity to reduce the amount they smoke or try to give up altogether. Some use patches. But most just cope with it.
Perhaps if someone is so addicted to a drug that they cannot function without it, then they shouldn't be flying?
Firstly, if you check, you will find that it is illegal to smoke airside at many airports. This includes on the aircraft. You could perhaps arrange a "spot check" to happen. Or you could mention this, in writing, to the company and ask if you are allowed to smoke or not.
Second, if the Captain wants to smoke, tell him that that is fine, but you will leave the flight deck for the duration.
Third, take up a foul smelling habit yourself. One good plan is to get a really strong smelling deodorant or aftershave and spray it about liberally either during or after the smoking.
This is a health and safety issue. You should perhaps query it again with the company, in writing, and ask them where you stand.
The company I work for used to allow smoking on the flight deck. It was then banned. And everyone managed to get through even long haul sectors without a cigarette.
Now the company I work for has banned smoking airside too, after one crew had a "spot check" and received a warning as it was illegal.
Some people go off to find a smoking area during turnround, but most don't. Some have taken the opportunity to reduce the amount they smoke or try to give up altogether. Some use patches. But most just cope with it.
Perhaps if someone is so addicted to a drug that they cannot function without it, then they shouldn't be flying?
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Airbus Girl and others,
I think you have missed the point that f-a is trying to make. He may well be surrounded by an illegal act, but to report it to the management will ensure his dismissal. The horns of the dilemma that every honest whistle blower finds himself upon.
If you wish to end this problem then the first thing to do is not to appear to be concerned about it. If you are seen to be annoyed by smoke and there is a witch hunt to find out who has either contacted Pprune or the CAA then you will be assumed to be one of the possible perpetrators. It is simpler to sack a dozen to be safe than the one guy who did it. So stay low.
Check your local regulations. Is the non-smoking rule a CAA rule or a company rule? If CAA you have a case. (I use the term CAA to refer to your local legislative authority. Your acronyms may vary...)
If it is a law, I suggest that you talk to the CAA. I know many here will blast me for that but if there is one thing that yanks their chain it is the blatant breaking of a rule, as this most probably is. FOI's are pilots first and government employees second. They are remarkably approachable to a phone call that relates to rule breaking.
One problem you may have, if you call the flight operations inspectors of certain country's aviation authorities is that some of them are in the pockets of the biggest local airline or the local/national government. This may or may not be a concern with the people you are dealing with. If you think that the authority that you talk to drinks in the same bar as your boss, try another tack.
Another tack is your local 101 of any of the NGO anti smoking lobbies. They are good on procedure, and probably have on their books several cases against local companies who have failed to follow the law. You will be greeted by rabid anti smokers who may be a bit extreme for you, but they have their place.
I shall now go outside for a gentle cigar. Hypocrisy allows all the vices...
I think you have missed the point that f-a is trying to make. He may well be surrounded by an illegal act, but to report it to the management will ensure his dismissal. The horns of the dilemma that every honest whistle blower finds himself upon.
If you wish to end this problem then the first thing to do is not to appear to be concerned about it. If you are seen to be annoyed by smoke and there is a witch hunt to find out who has either contacted Pprune or the CAA then you will be assumed to be one of the possible perpetrators. It is simpler to sack a dozen to be safe than the one guy who did it. So stay low.
Check your local regulations. Is the non-smoking rule a CAA rule or a company rule? If CAA you have a case. (I use the term CAA to refer to your local legislative authority. Your acronyms may vary...)
If it is a law, I suggest that you talk to the CAA. I know many here will blast me for that but if there is one thing that yanks their chain it is the blatant breaking of a rule, as this most probably is. FOI's are pilots first and government employees second. They are remarkably approachable to a phone call that relates to rule breaking.
One problem you may have, if you call the flight operations inspectors of certain country's aviation authorities is that some of them are in the pockets of the biggest local airline or the local/national government. This may or may not be a concern with the people you are dealing with. If you think that the authority that you talk to drinks in the same bar as your boss, try another tack.
Another tack is your local 101 of any of the NGO anti smoking lobbies. They are good on procedure, and probably have on their books several cases against local companies who have failed to follow the law. You will be greeted by rabid anti smokers who may be a bit extreme for you, but they have their place.
I shall now go outside for a gentle cigar. Hypocrisy allows all the vices...
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<Second, if the Captain wants to smoke, tell him that that is fine, but you will leave the flight deck for the duration.>
I think this is one of the best courses of action. Tell him that a smoky atmosphere gives you a headache and may induce a sinus attack and you cannot be present during smoking, or shortly afterwards. I sympathise- a very difficult position. I can remember in my early days on a 4 crew VC10- ex wartime Captain with his beloved pipe, old Copilot on a cigar, Flight Engineer chain smoking cigarettes, and me crying with stinging eyes and aching lungs! Bastards! Looking back, I should have stopped it stone dead there and then and let them do their worst! But you don't have to just sit there!
I think this is one of the best courses of action. Tell him that a smoky atmosphere gives you a headache and may induce a sinus attack and you cannot be present during smoking, or shortly afterwards. I sympathise- a very difficult position. I can remember in my early days on a 4 crew VC10- ex wartime Captain with his beloved pipe, old Copilot on a cigar, Flight Engineer chain smoking cigarettes, and me crying with stinging eyes and aching lungs! Bastards! Looking back, I should have stopped it stone dead there and then and let them do their worst! But you don't have to just sit there!
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Certainly a difficult position.
I'm not entirely sure of regulations at the moment, but the Irish government is introducing a complete ban on smoking in the workplace from Jan 1st 04, hence smoking will even be banned in pubs etc. So from 1st Jan there should be no doubt.... Not that that makes it any easier to actually deal with.
I'm not entirely sure of regulations at the moment, but the Irish government is introducing a complete ban on smoking in the workplace from Jan 1st 04, hence smoking will even be banned in pubs etc. So from 1st Jan there should be no doubt.... Not that that makes it any easier to actually deal with.
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Well at least I have generated some discussion. Obviously not many of you are aware of the way the FR works though. Now perhaps I need to get the Irish Press to start reading Ppune! I think there is no doubt that the practise is illegal and as I said the company has officially banned it BUT in FR this makes very little difference! I have not found a single FO prepared to join me in making a stand over it even though most of them detest the practise. Although the airline has its main base in the UK its pilots come from virtually every part of the world and of course this includes a lot of former Eastern bloc countries where smoking is endemic and CRM virtually unheard of!
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I am not a commercial pilot but am amazed that you can pass a class 1 medical with a drug addiction.
Is an addicted captain very safe if he has forgotton his pack of 20 and has to go a few hours without -'twitching' as someone said?
Is an addicted captain very safe if he has forgotton his pack of 20 and has to go a few hours without -'twitching' as someone said?
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While the issue of smoking on the flightdeck (or any office for that matter) causes a big nuisance factor and potential health hazard which should be addressed by any Occupational Health and Management Team worth its salt, I would for the immediate future be more worried about your statement regarding the absence of CRM.
FD
FD
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I can't get over the hypocrisy! No doubt the 'No smoking' signs remain illuminated throughout all Ryanair flights, but that doesn't apply to the cockpit! Next time I'm stuck in the back surrounded by the great unwashed and gasping for a fag, it'll be even worse knowing that the crew may well be happily smoking up front. Either smoking is deemed a risk to the safety of the aircraft and is banned entirely whilst on the plane, or it isn't and you should be allowed to smoke anywhere or in designated smoking areas while in the cruise.
Well, if pilots were recruited exclusively from the ranks of people that didn't smoke, or drink alcohol, tea, coffee, or coke then we'd probably not have very many of 'em!
amazed that you can pass a class 1 medical with a drug addiction.
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I've been looking for an NTSB report but I couldn't find it.
Two guys come in to land (in a 172 I think) and the pilot puts it down heavily. They hear a glugging sound from the back, only to notice...this gas can they were carrying
has fallen over 
Well it's obviously not such a good idea to have gasoline sloshing around your aircraft, so the passenger reaches back to stand it upright again
Trouble is, he has a cigar in his hand
Whoosh!
They had to jam the brakes on and make a run for it
The aircraft was a write off though
Two guys come in to land (in a 172 I think) and the pilot puts it down heavily. They hear a glugging sound from the back, only to notice...this gas can they were carrying
has fallen over Well it's obviously not such a good idea to have gasoline sloshing around your aircraft, so the passenger reaches back to stand it upright again
Trouble is, he has a cigar in his hand
Whoosh!
They had to jam the brakes on and make a run for it
The aircraft was a write off though
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There is new legislation coming into Ireland early next year, the dates have not yet been fully confirmed but Jan 1 is the kick-start date.
The laws are anti-smoking laws and have been much in discussion lately over here. The anti-smoking laws are more than likely being expanded into the workplace, which should bail the FR FO's !!
Unfortunately though, enforcement of this law will be the stumbling block.
BTW:
(I can't see how FR would have a clear out of a few FO's as mentioned previously, just cos someone has a grievance with a smoking captain, there are ways of confidential reporting )
The laws are anti-smoking laws and have been much in discussion lately over here. The anti-smoking laws are more than likely being expanded into the workplace, which should bail the FR FO's !!
Unfortunately though, enforcement of this law will be the stumbling block.
BTW:
(I can't see how FR would have a clear out of a few FO's as mentioned previously, just cos someone has a grievance with a smoking captain, there are ways of confidential reporting )