Jimmy Hoffa Rocks

Surprising silence

The recent firings of Vueling and Clickair pilots appear to have targeted so called potential " troublemakers " in the eyes of management..
Is this right ?

There seems to be some scare tactics employed to keep others quiet ? To show that the company does not need to follow seniority when firing pilots and they can fire whomever they want. Personally I think we should only view the " fear tactic " as strategy and nothing more.

You have nothing to fear but fear itself.


Apparently there is a rumour that some Vueling pilots are starting ( or going to start ) a New Vueling Pilot Association-Associacion Pilotos Nuevo Vueling that would be Independant and would like to have equal representation from Vueling and Clickair pilots. As there are many pilots who do not wish to be affiliated in Sepla. This would benefit the New Vueling ( reducing total Sepla dominance) and the management should support ( would probably not ) it.

A New Vueling Sepla sindical section would be under pressure from Sepla Iberia. It would be difficult to be completely independant.

This would be better discussed on the airline specific private forum Perhaps the moderators could set one up for the New Vueling.

Any views with those who have been in touch with those involved.

I really wonder whats going to happen in October.

Any thoughts companeros ?

wind check

That's a good idea to have your own union, but in order to be very powerfull in the company, you will have to buy a buy percentage of Vueling, then you will be respected and the management will do what you decide

beachbumflyer

Big mistake to be separeted from sepla.

wind check

Even for Iberia pilots, the SEPLA is absolutely useless

jmfkukoc

For who? for IBERIA pilots, not for the other ones..

wind check

maybe you mean Naysa , Swiftair , Air Nostrum , Gestair , Spanair , TopFly , Hola Airlines , "Quantum Air" , Aeronova , Futura (RIP), Air Madrid (RIP), Lagunair (RIP), Regional Wings (RIP), Girjet (RIP), Binter (adios amigos!).....

The best way to have power in this industry is to buy a big percentage of the company (Air France pilots, UPS pilots, Fedex pilots, ...)


SEPLA, BALPA, ... it is just a monney maker

Yabaduu

What are you on man?

Futura pilots also had a stake on the airline.

Ask Ryanair piots how their conditions are without a union and then compare it to easyJet.

The pilots cannot be responsible for the poor strategy set by an airline (Air Madrid, LTE, ...)

wind check

hold a sec mate! easyjet is going down day by day and is is more and more similar to ryanair.
Of course a union is helping, but I mean a powerful union like Lufthansa, airfrance, fedex, UPS... not the crap SEPLA or BALPA who want to suck you bank account.
Maybe futura pilots had a stake on the airline, and that's why their conditions were very good. At least those conditions were good until everybody loose their jobs

Jimmy Hoffa Rocks

Just got the notice of a Sepla meeting. Any thoughts ?


Personally dont know which would be better, an Independant Vueling Pilot Association ( backed up by UGT ) or Vueling Sepla ?

Is SEPLA right for the new Vueling ?

The main thing is to become more united. Foreign, Clickair and Spanish pilots together as one. French, German,Italian as one. We all want the same things. The pilots need to become more involved. It is up to us.

In my opinion, the French pilots in Vueling can change this situation around. They appear to be helping start up the Independant Association ( along with Spanish and other foreign pilots or sign up with Sepla. This is a start, the seed has been planted.

Dont know what the fairest solution is for merging the seniority for the most pilots possible.

An new independant union would definitely have only the interests of Vueling ( Clickair ) Pilots in mind.
But SEPLA has much more power influence and resources.

I-AINC

Jimmy Hoffa Rocks I'm totally agree with you. The main thing is to become more united, in Spain, in Italy (for me) and in the rest of the Europe... I seen some minutes ago the recruitment situation by pilotjobsnetwork.com and... It's very simply to fall in a deep cry

The situation is terrifying, good luck to you all

Mattia (A new italian pilot with ATPLf CPL IR MEP but without work )

estrellafugaz

Hi jimmy, isn't SEPLA the biggest union in IBERIA? well in this case they shouldn't be allowed to enter in the vueling matters since it is clear that it would be managed once again to pander (complacer) the iberia people.. who already do not see vueling very well.
For the same reason it is clear why SEPLA is trying to get its hand in vueling.. to be always updated on what is going on down there, and to use these informations on the other side in iberia while talking with the management.

do not be fool, do you way on your own.. once the merge will be completed agonism between vueling and clickair pilots will be lost beacuase it is going to be all ONE single company.

KEEP SEPLA OUT

Skystar02

Do you accept any advice? In the end it doesn't matter if it's SEPLA o whoever the point is to choose a pilot representative and stay behind him/them all together, otherwise you'll be dead before negotiations are initiated.

Saludos & buena suerte!

N-1

No matter what the new company name will be (Vueling, New Vueling, etc), because it is just a MARKETING issue. Clickair took over Vueling and NOW will control the business.

Regarding pilots, just check out and follow with great interest that at Clickair, Union stuff is something not beloved, so I wonder what will happen to those who attempt to create or support a pilot union...... let's see.

Other thing many people is waiting to come and see is a spanish test (DGAC included) to all of those who don't speak, write, read, or give a damn **** on spanish..... that will be a good cleaning.

good luck...

Airbus_a321

seasexsun

at last!!
That is absolutely normal to speak spanish because vueling is a spanish airline. Procedures and communication may be done in english because this is the first language in aviation, but, you live in spain, you are hired by spaniards, so make an effort to speak the local language. Why will vueling hire english people who never make any effort in lerning foreign langiage, when there are many european (not only spanish) who speak english AND spanish? For me it is normal and urgent to make such a cleaning.

suerte.

Jimmy Hoffa Rocks

Sky star- You are right it doesnt matter if its Sepla. The main thing is to stand behind a pilot representative and stick together. All together Spanish and foreign pilots as one. The Vueling Sepla representative would stand up for Vueling pilots and would not be working for Sepla Iberia. I would have preferred an independant union to Seplabut it would be too much work and nobody seems to want to do it.

N-1 and sea sex

I agree with you that foreign pilots need to speak Spanish at Vueling.

There were ( and are 0 French pilots who were arrogant and did not show
enough respect for Spain, I agree. Please lets not divide foreigners and Spanish as we all want the same things. The management promoted the pilots divided, dont you see this. Dont continue in the trap.


Dont forget how the company got foreigners to keep the unions out.

There was a Spanish level 4 test last year. In fact Many foreign pilots at Vueling have made an effort to learn Castellano. There are a few dickheads true.


I have a question for you N-1. How many Spanish pilots coming from outside Catalunya have made an effort to learn 20 words of Catalan.
Why not ?

We are in Europe. Spain has benefitted from the European community.
With many Spanish pilots working in the UK and at Ryanair and Easyjet

Yes there are a few foreign pilots who have not made an effort to learn Spanish.

We say again. English is the language of aviation.


N-1. The situation for the Clickair bosses at the new Vueling is different.

By the way Vueling has a comite de empresa with TCP's who have the majority. If the new bosses at Vueling behave as they did at Clickair there will be labour problems. Also I dont think management want the pilots and tcps to join together at the comite and CCOO. I hear of pilots signing up with CCOO we do not have representation. This cannot be signing with CCOO ?

Dont think the new Clickair bosses want problemas with the pilots who work really hard. We are in currently in difficult economic times. No one is asking for more money. We as pilots want to help the company the new Vueling and make it stronger.

Our goal to promote efficiency.

But lets be men and not cowards. The time will come to show whether we have balls or not. And to support our pilot representatives.

Tough times.
With Air Nostrum, Futura pilots,etc unemployed. I feel for those guys. It's not easy.

N-1

Hi Jimmy... look at your PM box.

Anyhow, let me answer also here for all to read.

- I'm not originally from Catalunya but Madrid, and beside Castellano, I do speak Catalan, Gallego and starting Euskara (this will take some extra time). So imagine that effort to learn is not a broblem if there is a willing. Also had worked in Portugal and Germany and you can add those languages to the list. Will every pilot at Vueling do the same effort, starting by the french ones?

- I don't know how the new Management will work, but I can tell you that in both sides (now a unique one) they didn't love the pilot union idea. Sepla is useless even at Iberia and others will only promote strikes instead of solutions. I bet you a dinner that those identified as conflictive unionist will have to do their best at next LPC.

- Spain is part of Europe and we had good advantages just like Greece had. But if at Aegean they ask me to know fluent Greek, at Air France good french, Swiss, Niki and DLH good Deutsch, etc, etc... I don't see why should not ANY spanish airline conduct all exams and interviews in spanish... just like other countries do. This is not discrimination, I call it reciprocity, and it's fair.

- From what I have read from you, here and at PM, you may be a normal good person to have a coffee with, also wish many of your non-spanish team-mates at Vueling behave like you do; this should lead to have no problems, just do your work and foreget about CCOO or Sepla useless ****, they will do NOTHING for you, except take your money away. And this is CERTIFIED.

Good landings mate!!

Morbid

So what would SEPLA do for you guys if it comes down to an issue where Iberia pilots wanting one thing and Vueling pilots another?

Antes que alguien se calienta soy un guiri que ha aprendido un poco de Castellano (o por los que insisten que Castellano es de los rojos: Espaņol). La pregunta viene debido a que he visto y se que SEPLA es nada mas que una peņa de pilotos de Iberia. Se ha dado por el "orificio trastero" a otros partes de Iberia solo por favoracer a los pilotos entonces porque no se iba a hacer lo mismo con los de Vueling?

Jimmy Hoffa Rocks

Vueling Sepla son completamente independientes de Sepla Iberia.
If there is a conflict they will negotiate.

The new Vueling reps are looking out for the interests of all Vueling pilots, to promote effcicient flight operations in Vueling, they represent Vueling pilots exclusively. From what they have told me the new Vueling representative will create a New modern low cost Section that will actually help the company find win/win solutions. ( We are in a tough economic situation and time. )

In fact helping to modernize Sepla in the new EU.

Sepla Iberia pueden ser un buen aliado aparte del tema de Madrid.

Air Nostrum SEPLA es independiente y tiene un buen convenio.

Sadly the new bosses from Clickair the only thing they respect is Sepla. I am sorry to say it too.

Sepla Iberia is interested in better conditions for their pilots. If Vueling has better conditions it will give Sepla Iberia a better negotiating position.

Esta sola es mi opinion personal.

pilot18

When I intervied and hired it was all in english.

Since one of my reasons for joining was to move to a warmer and nicer place, and to learn the language(spanish), I was thrilled when I read in my contract that " I am required to learn spanish to a certain level in order to be able to communicate with other staff in the company." Vueling will provide me with the courses necessary to learn spanish.

Vueling has not done so and I have reached only a certain level, but I can actually communicate sufficiently with our new maintenance staff, whose english is less than my spanish. I can actually understand ATC in spanish

I think it is natural to learn the language of the country you live and work in.

What bothers me the most is the spanish managment mentality and the way that our new collegues (ex clickair), have bowed down to their masters in fear, instead of actually pointing out when things are not right, as we have tried in the past, e g "the yellow book".

I also believe that the spanish language(or french, or italian, or...)have nothing to do inside a flight deck regarding ATC communications. It doesn't help that the spanish ATC are sometimes...lacking. It doesn't help that a majority of the spanish airlines(and pilots) accept "nonstandard" clearences and fly nonstandard approaches.

Especially when you have nonspanish airlines flying the standard routings as they are cleared (but not expected by ATC) and, whoops, a conflict.



I do believe that some kind of representation is in order and IF they try to get rid of pilots with a spanish test without at least trying to give us courses, as per our contracts...


Just my humble opinion...