CSA China Southern!
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Anyone heard anything about the LHR base?
I know AMS/FRA are starting soon on 777.
CS were looking at putting a 787 into LHR twice a day - but I heard they might look at putting the 777 onto it for extra capacity.
I know AMS/FRA are starting soon on 777.
CS were looking at putting a 787 into LHR twice a day - but I heard they might look at putting the 777 onto it for extra capacity.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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LHR
Hi Gammon,
I was due to start in July on the 787 with a LHR base when it opens. However it seems that at the moment that is not in the pipeline. Emphasis seems to be on AKL for the 787 and the first EU base will be AMS/FRA on the 777. Maybe LHR will be next after these but things seem very quiet on that front. CSA indeed seem to want 2 daily services to LHR but is that possible with the slots, thats the question. So as you mentioned before, maybe changing the once daily service to a 777 might be the solution at least in the interim. This could be why the LHR base seems to be taking a back seat at the moment as they are unsure what fleet will operate the route. Who knows. They seem committed to opening the various bases so i guess its just a matter of when and more importantly for all those applying, on which fleet...
All the best.
I was due to start in July on the 787 with a LHR base when it opens. However it seems that at the moment that is not in the pipeline. Emphasis seems to be on AKL for the 787 and the first EU base will be AMS/FRA on the 777. Maybe LHR will be next after these but things seem very quiet on that front. CSA indeed seem to want 2 daily services to LHR but is that possible with the slots, thats the question. So as you mentioned before, maybe changing the once daily service to a 777 might be the solution at least in the interim. This could be why the LHR base seems to be taking a back seat at the moment as they are unsure what fleet will operate the route. Who knows. They seem committed to opening the various bases so i guess its just a matter of when and more importantly for all those applying, on which fleet...
All the best.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I failed the CAAC SIM check and have been offered a resit, but I must admit that I'm now a bit scared of joining after failing that sim.
Good to hear that they're offering EU bases though...
Good to hear that they're offering EU bases though...
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I also thought that it would be a rubber stamp exercise, but it wasn't.
It was very similar to the assessment.
The thing that scared me was that I did not believe that we (me and my sim partner) had failed the session when we walked out of the sim. We were actually happy because we thought it went pretty well.
For what I saw, I think that there is obviously a bit of a difference between management, who needs you there and offers you the resit, and the pilot force who don't really appreciate the fact that you join directly as a 777/787 CPT, jumping seniority and making twice as much.
Hopefully this will soften with time as more foreigners join CSA, but I'm sure it will be something to watch out for initially during line operations and SIM recurrency.
It was very similar to the assessment.
The thing that scared me was that I did not believe that we (me and my sim partner) had failed the session when we walked out of the sim. We were actually happy because we thought it went pretty well.
For what I saw, I think that there is obviously a bit of a difference between management, who needs you there and offers you the resit, and the pilot force who don't really appreciate the fact that you join directly as a 777/787 CPT, jumping seniority and making twice as much.
Hopefully this will soften with time as more foreigners join CSA, but I'm sure it will be something to watch out for initially during line operations and SIM recurrency.
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Sounds like Korea.......
I hope this doesn't become an issue - the initial vibes I got when I was over there were pretty good......except for the zero star hotel they put us in!!!
I hope this doesn't become an issue - the initial vibes I got when I was over there were pretty good......except for the zero star hotel they put us in!!!
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Arbitrary failures by line trainers.........that sounds very much like KAL.....
Sounds riskier everyday....especially now the USD22k bond is required by all agencies.....
It's particularly odd that 737lpa is obviously an experienced pilot - as everyone who goes for this job is - but he and his partner are all of a sudden such a poor judge of their own performance, that they thought they had both passed, but in fact were failed by the CAAC guy......
No wonder they are short of pilots........the job is nearly bloody impossible to get!...
Sounds riskier everyday....especially now the USD22k bond is required by all agencies.....
It's particularly odd that 737lpa is obviously an experienced pilot - as everyone who goes for this job is - but he and his partner are all of a sudden such a poor judge of their own performance, that they thought they had both passed, but in fact were failed by the CAAC guy......
No wonder they are short of pilots........the job is nearly bloody impossible to get!...
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To clarify the above, my CAAC checker was a CSA Captain authorized by the CAAC to carry out the check (just like European TRE's can do checks but still work for an airline).
It's not like we got failed by some CAAC check pilot who had nothing to do with CSA, hence my fears on the difference between CSA management who wants you there and offers you a resit and the check pilots, who make half your salary and get stuck on the B737 while you go right ahead to the 777/787.
It's not like we got failed by some CAAC check pilot who had nothing to do with CSA, hence my fears on the difference between CSA management who wants you there and offers you a resit and the check pilots, who make half your salary and get stuck on the B737 while you go right ahead to the 777/787.
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Ah okay.......see what you mean....
Thats probably worse though....divisions in the company when you should be on the same team....
Apparently there's usually 2-3 guys in the sim. Did you just have the one checker?
Maybe you just fell victim to a guy with a grudge. Perhaps if there's a management bod in the sim the chances will be better.....
Thats probably worse though....divisions in the company when you should be on the same team....
Apparently there's usually 2-3 guys in the sim. Did you just have the one checker?
Maybe you just fell victim to a guy with a grudge. Perhaps if there's a management bod in the sim the chances will be better.....
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I just had the 1 guy in the SIM. A CSA CPT who can do CAAC checks.
I agree that having a management pilot along for the ride would have been better.
On the other side I must say that the email received a few days later was very encouraging giving me the chance to resit, so I really have mixed feelings.
In any case, I think that the job requires to be on a constant watch while working on the line or going thru initial training and recurrency as many of your "colleagues" will always see you as a threat and a seniority cruncher.
I agree that having a management pilot along for the ride would have been better.
On the other side I must say that the email received a few days later was very encouraging giving me the chance to resit, so I really have mixed feelings.
In any case, I think that the job requires to be on a constant watch while working on the line or going thru initial training and recurrency as many of your "colleagues" will always see you as a threat and a seniority cruncher.
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737lpa Sorry to hear you only had the one.
I had a CS sim instructor operating the sim and a CAAC check airman evaluating us -
For what it is worth we walked out of the sim demoralized and thinking we failed based on the lecture we got about our cockpit management skills -
I told myself right then and there - that if I failed I was NOT going to attempt it again.
Keep in mind we both had at least 5000hrs command on the 37 and work for very respected safe strict SOP established companies.
We were of course surprised to be then told we passed.
Im not sure any of it makes any sense -
I had a CS sim instructor operating the sim and a CAAC check airman evaluating us -
For what it is worth we walked out of the sim demoralized and thinking we failed based on the lecture we got about our cockpit management skills -
I told myself right then and there - that if I failed I was NOT going to attempt it again.
Keep in mind we both had at least 5000hrs command on the 37 and work for very respected safe strict SOP established companies.
We were of course surprised to be then told we passed.
Im not sure any of it makes any sense -
Last edited by WJAPilot; 19th Jun 2014 at 04:48.
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737lpa Sorry to hear you only had the one.
I had a CS sim instructor operating the sim and a CAAC check airman evaluating us -
For what it is worth we walked out of the sim demoralized and thinking we failed based on the lecture we got about our cockpit management skills -
I told myself right then and there - that if I failed I was NOT going to attempt it again.
Keep in mind we both had at least 5000hrs command on the 37 and work for very respected safe strict SOP established companies.
We were of course surprised to be then told we passed. WTF
Im not sure any of it makes any sense -
I had a CS sim instructor operating the sim and a CAAC check airman evaluating us -
For what it is worth we walked out of the sim demoralized and thinking we failed based on the lecture we got about our cockpit management skills -
I told myself right then and there - that if I failed I was NOT going to attempt it again.
Keep in mind we both had at least 5000hrs command on the 37 and work for very respected safe strict SOP established companies.
We were of course surprised to be then told we passed. WTF
Im not sure any of it makes any sense -
Bear in mind that a lot of expats in Asia have dodgy credentials and the ones feeding you utterly negative opinions are really the riff raffs who had failed trying their luck over here in Asia.
Your over 5000 hours of quality command time had certainly borne fruit and the Chinese check airmen saw to that...the impression you get about lecture on your cockpit management skills might have been tainted by their lack of ability to articulate their concerns or comments in English.
Now go and enjoy your tome with CSA and free yourselves from the utter codswallop you get from losers, whingers and whiners.
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WJA,
I think it's safe to say that anyone going thru this application process is pretty experienced and, for what I have seen, most of us come from "very respected, safe and strict SOP" airlines.
I have friends that failed the assessment that were even more experienced and more qualified than others than passed, but didn't have a good day I guess. So it's life.
I also said to myself that I was thru with the process after we failed the check. I figured the job would be too risky for me to leave my present gig.
But after receiving the email to resit the test I think I'll wait and see the impressions of a few colleagues that are already in or joining soon and then make my mind up.
Right now I have nothing to lose by trying again, so I think I might give it a go...
Have you got a joining date yet?
I think it's safe to say that anyone going thru this application process is pretty experienced and, for what I have seen, most of us come from "very respected, safe and strict SOP" airlines.
I have friends that failed the assessment that were even more experienced and more qualified than others than passed, but didn't have a good day I guess. So it's life.
I also said to myself that I was thru with the process after we failed the check. I figured the job would be too risky for me to leave my present gig.
But after receiving the email to resit the test I think I'll wait and see the impressions of a few colleagues that are already in or joining soon and then make my mind up.
Right now I have nothing to lose by trying again, so I think I might give it a go...
Have you got a joining date yet?
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This is my 2 cents guys. Take it for what it is worth.
If you are thinking of coming here bear in mind this: If priority is money
then this may not be a bad option. You will need to spend roughly $2000 of
your salary in expenses such a a place to stay, food etc. Now $16,000 is
still a good salary but 45 days on the road and 15 days off is a lot of time
away (You travel home on your days off and it's up to the Captain and the Purser if they give you business. Economy class is likely).
The training is long and you will spend probably 6-7 months on training pay, which is $12000 USD. The training is very frustrating with many changes
and many times you will actually just sit in the jumpeat watching for various reasons as the weather is too bad (CAVOK???). This means you will not always get landings even when scheduled for training. Expect to come here and the bases not to open for quite awhile if at all especially on the 787. It is really numbers and I have heard now that 6 is the minimum for a base. The agencies seem to "promise bases" but there are no guarantees for this at ALL. There are also a realistic chance that the equipment flying to your base could change. Depending on guys choices, I would expect Auckland or Vancouver to be first (Unless they put the 777 on it). CSA seems determined to get Auckland up first mind you. Also we are second (or third) class citizens here. They treat you well enough to your face but this is really only a facade. They really don't want us here (and I don't blame them) but they need us. Once online don't expect to fly much either, in some cases you will be regarded as beneath the F/O. The rules on who can take off and land are complicated at best so you will probably keep mostly current through your sims. The contract you sign also means nothing. The only contract that carries any weight is the companies contract. Meaning the one you sign with the agencies isn't necessarily what CSA has. They will also change it at any moments notice.
My conclusion is I cannot in good conscience advise anyone to come here unless you are really needing a job badly or just want a type. If you are considering leaving a good job...don't.
Hope that helps any guys on the fence.
If you are thinking of coming here bear in mind this: If priority is money
then this may not be a bad option. You will need to spend roughly $2000 of
your salary in expenses such a a place to stay, food etc. Now $16,000 is
still a good salary but 45 days on the road and 15 days off is a lot of time
away (You travel home on your days off and it's up to the Captain and the Purser if they give you business. Economy class is likely).
The training is long and you will spend probably 6-7 months on training pay, which is $12000 USD. The training is very frustrating with many changes
and many times you will actually just sit in the jumpeat watching for various reasons as the weather is too bad (CAVOK???). This means you will not always get landings even when scheduled for training. Expect to come here and the bases not to open for quite awhile if at all especially on the 787. It is really numbers and I have heard now that 6 is the minimum for a base. The agencies seem to "promise bases" but there are no guarantees for this at ALL. There are also a realistic chance that the equipment flying to your base could change. Depending on guys choices, I would expect Auckland or Vancouver to be first (Unless they put the 777 on it). CSA seems determined to get Auckland up first mind you. Also we are second (or third) class citizens here. They treat you well enough to your face but this is really only a facade. They really don't want us here (and I don't blame them) but they need us. Once online don't expect to fly much either, in some cases you will be regarded as beneath the F/O. The rules on who can take off and land are complicated at best so you will probably keep mostly current through your sims. The contract you sign also means nothing. The only contract that carries any weight is the companies contract. Meaning the one you sign with the agencies isn't necessarily what CSA has. They will also change it at any moments notice.
My conclusion is I cannot in good conscience advise anyone to come here unless you are really needing a job badly or just want a type. If you are considering leaving a good job...don't.
Hope that helps any guys on the fence.
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Hi Cruz,
Thanks for your post. Can I ask how long you have been at CSA. While I believe your comments to be valid. From experience and discussions with other pilots, in Asia, sim/line trg can be an eye opener Having spoken to some guys who have been on the line for awhile, it seems their perspective improves.
Any other guys currently at CSA? Any comments. For/against..
Cheers.
Thanks for your post. Can I ask how long you have been at CSA. While I believe your comments to be valid. From experience and discussions with other pilots, in Asia, sim/line trg can be an eye opener
Having spoken to some guys who have been on the line for awhile, it seems their perspective improves.Any other guys currently at CSA? Any comments. For/against..
Cheers.