Vietnam Airlines bangs up another one...
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Vietnam Airlines Scrrenings
Has someone been invited for a screening at Vietnam Airlines lately? I have applied, but still waiting for their invitation. I'd like to know how the screenings are working nowadays. Thanks
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Ahem....Grove just to clarify , I don't think I would ever work for SIA , Qantas or Delta because to my understanding all these carriers are battling to sustain their present fleet and growth , especially Qantas. Just for the record , I have flown with different nationalities and genders and I have never discriminated or passed a biased remark against any of them. Because when you judge an aviator , you should do so without any bias. I have flown with the finest of aviators from all nationalities , including American. But what ticks me off is when I see threads like these which insinuate that Asia pilots are a step below the so called Western standard. Let me tell you an interesting story about a American guy I knew from my former airline.When he came in he had issues with the airline's training system and standards and he kept harping about how difficult it was to clear the FAA check rides and the FAA ATPL flight test blah blah blah...We put up with it and the irony was this guy could not even clear the ground school.Passed after multiple attempts and had problems in line training and finally left saying that it was all bull****. I wish I told him...Friend look within , that's where the problem is, not outside....maybe then the world would be a better place to fly. And for the record , Korean Air brought in experts from Delta to train and groom their pilots to improve their safety record. But Korean still kept having safety issues. Today the safety record is much better in Korean Air , because you have pilots from all over the world there , Malaysia , Europe , Australia , America , you name it. That's how you improve safety , different people , lotsa of experience and finally better understanding....have a nice day 
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But what ticks me off is when I see threads like these which insinuate that Asia pilots are a step below the so called Western standard. Let me tell you an interesting story about a American guy I knew from my former airline.When he came in he had issues with the airline's training system and standards and he kept harping about how difficult it was to clear the FAA check rides and the FAA ATPL flight test blah blah blah...We put up with it and the irony was this guy could not even clear the ground school.Passed after multiple attempts and had problems in line training and finally left saying that it was all bull****. I wish I told him...Friend look within , that's where the problem is, not outside....maybe then the world would be a better place to fly.
Massive " loss of face " all covered up with tons of analytical mumbo jumbo to pull wool over our eyes, and they swear on their grandmas tombs that they never suffer from loss of face thingy...utter codswallop1
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you have got to be kidding...
I find it amazing that what really started out as an attempt by a concerned pilot to highlight serious safety issues at Vietnam Airlines turned into a person slanging match amongst "professional" pilots.
The post that lists the incidents says so much more than the bickering than helped ruined this post.
It sounds like there are genuine concerns there and maybe the world's authorities need to look at the whole operation before there is a far more serious accident....but then again, that is what the original post was about?!?
The post that lists the incidents says so much more than the bickering than helped ruined this post.
It sounds like there are genuine concerns there and maybe the world's authorities need to look at the whole operation before there is a far more serious accident....but then again, that is what the original post was about?!?
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Sky Dancer, you seem to be ignorant as to where the standards in place in Asia came from, the fact that they are western in origin and often diluted and poorly understood in the east to where they have been imported.
Eastern pilots excel in rote learning. They tend to have more information memorized than a western pilot.
Western pilots tend to enjoy more benefit from training and experience that emphasizes understanding the practical application of the book material. This seems to be for two reasons: 1) because westerners are encouraged to ask "why", whereas the easterner is generally disposed towards "don't ask, just do"; 2) because the aviation rules and standards almost exclusively develop in the west where all the "why" questions are asked, answered, and disseminated. The "just do it" eastern world adopts the standards but fails to fully understand much of the nuances of specifically chosen words and phrases due to weakness in english language comprehension.
Younger pilots the world over tend to have a much shallower base of experience with a much quicker path to an FMS keypad and autopilot. The younger pilots would greatly benefit from more training on the edges of the flight envelope as well as a couple months flying a non-flybywire airliner without an autopilot, and better yet, without an FMS or autothrust/throttle.
A pilot from an American airline is much more likely to experience an airline that encourages the exercise of those basic skills that the continuous use of automation diminishes, whereas an Asian airline is more likely to restrict elements of manual flight extensively as well as impose penalties for numbers coming off of an FDR.
Where an Asian airline makes the bet that the technology will provide all the safety they require, a smarter airline more committed to safety will work toward and support a fully functionable flight crew that can actually transition to and from automated flight with comfort and ease, as well as fly to an airport visually and land from any relative position for which a stabilized approach can be made.
Limitations pertaining to automation should be left to the manufacturer. Use of automation within the proscribed limitations should be left to the pilot.
Each pilot's skillset suffers or improves according to the airline culture and experience that exists where he works. The Koreans have previously demonstrated the painfully dysfunctional effect of their culture on safe flightdeck operations. Most Asian carriers demonstrate an overly dependent emphasis on automation and a tendency to prefer fines over training and education. American airlines have been responsible for the largest single body of aviation experience in the world and have therefore long been pioneers in both the right and wrong ways to operate aircraft, and it is that leading concentration of experience within one single body (America) that confers perhaps the greatest amount of learning for aviation that has been shared worldwide.
Eastern pilots excel in rote learning. They tend to have more information memorized than a western pilot.
Western pilots tend to enjoy more benefit from training and experience that emphasizes understanding the practical application of the book material. This seems to be for two reasons: 1) because westerners are encouraged to ask "why", whereas the easterner is generally disposed towards "don't ask, just do"; 2) because the aviation rules and standards almost exclusively develop in the west where all the "why" questions are asked, answered, and disseminated. The "just do it" eastern world adopts the standards but fails to fully understand much of the nuances of specifically chosen words and phrases due to weakness in english language comprehension.
Younger pilots the world over tend to have a much shallower base of experience with a much quicker path to an FMS keypad and autopilot. The younger pilots would greatly benefit from more training on the edges of the flight envelope as well as a couple months flying a non-flybywire airliner without an autopilot, and better yet, without an FMS or autothrust/throttle.
A pilot from an American airline is much more likely to experience an airline that encourages the exercise of those basic skills that the continuous use of automation diminishes, whereas an Asian airline is more likely to restrict elements of manual flight extensively as well as impose penalties for numbers coming off of an FDR.
Where an Asian airline makes the bet that the technology will provide all the safety they require, a smarter airline more committed to safety will work toward and support a fully functionable flight crew that can actually transition to and from automated flight with comfort and ease, as well as fly to an airport visually and land from any relative position for which a stabilized approach can be made.
Limitations pertaining to automation should be left to the manufacturer. Use of automation within the proscribed limitations should be left to the pilot.
Each pilot's skillset suffers or improves according to the airline culture and experience that exists where he works. The Koreans have previously demonstrated the painfully dysfunctional effect of their culture on safe flightdeck operations. Most Asian carriers demonstrate an overly dependent emphasis on automation and a tendency to prefer fines over training and education. American airlines have been responsible for the largest single body of aviation experience in the world and have therefore long been pioneers in both the right and wrong ways to operate aircraft, and it is that leading concentration of experience within one single body (America) that confers perhaps the greatest amount of learning for aviation that has been shared worldwide.
Last edited by Jaxon; 28th Sep 2013 at 03:48.
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Jaxon , my good friend , I agree 100% with your post. The Western system of education permits a young mind to think on its own which is a great thing , that is why the Western world has given us such great inventions, not to mention the aeroplane. But you seem to be missing my point. Many posts here have a racial slur attached to it , meaning there is a subtle implication that Asian pilots aren't really cut out for it while the Western ones are. Now that is what I am fighting against. I am very happy to pick up pointers from an experienced , sensible pilot who has something useful to share. Not from some obnoxious pilot who claims he is "hot" although he is anything but that and to make matters worse treat me like I don't know a thing.....that's what I can't stand. And another question , what were the background of the guys who scrapped the tail of the EK A 340s in Johannesburg and Australia. Were they Asian as well ? Or maybe from Korea where they are still learning how to rotate an aircraft on take off ....give me a break guys
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Jaxon, let me judge your post!
…and I find it crisp, clear, accurate and 100% bang-on!
…and it's not about race! It's about culture!
…and the biggest disgrace is that the payload looks at the new, shiny aircraft and think that they get the same level of safety as the do with an airline-industry-civilized carrier!
…and it's a pretty big oil tanker to turn around because it's the same in the rest of their society!
…and go figure why the rather intense VNA discussion has died out!
…and I judge myself to know what I'm talking about after more than 30 airline years, including a 4 year stint with VNA.
…and it's not about race! It's about culture!
…and the biggest disgrace is that the payload looks at the new, shiny aircraft and think that they get the same level of safety as the do with an airline-industry-civilized carrier!
…and it's a pretty big oil tanker to turn around because it's the same in the rest of their society!
…and go figure why the rather intense VNA discussion has died out!
…and I judge myself to know what I'm talking about after more than 30 airline years, including a 4 year stint with VNA.
Last edited by olepilot; 27th Sep 2013 at 13:53.
