Latest on Hainan Airlines

[urge]

Just a bit off on the info. Not twice furloughed from the same airline. Furloughed in training the first time, when i decided to come back to the US over 10 years ago. First mistake. Then decided to come back again to what i thought was a "true" legacy airline, (cargo), and got put into a pool. I consider that a furlough. Was willing to start at the bottom of FedEx. Second Mistake. Thank god i didn't wait, for i would have been in the pool for 5 years! Maybe that's my 3rd mistake and should have gone 5 years later but like USMC, i'm chasing the dough. Gun for Hire.

I think the Asian markets are way better than anywhere else. The US pax carriers are all in big trouble, except for Southwest. The only thing worth doing in the US is cargo. When all the international carriers start flying the big metal to more US cities on nonstops, then the US international carriers will be doomed when the US citizens realize how much better the service is with foreign carriers. I'm jumping to China just like everyone else, but realizing i'm taking a risk in doing so. The interview and check were hard enough, but I'm hoping i picked the right company that treats their expats properly.

[USMCProbe]

Sorry URGE, you posted on United Airlines section of APC, claiming to be a twice furloughed United pilot.. You were inquiring about recall rights and dates. Same airline I worked for but I took a voluntary leave as I have a bit better seniority.

After your second furlough, you laundered your SIC time to PIC time by doing a Canadian license conversion. According to you.

I still think you are a 16 year old "troll".

[USMCProbe]

Back on topic, finally. Less than two weeks ago I jumpseated on a Hainan Air 330 flow by an expat. After we landed in SYX I asked him about what kind of schedules the expats were getting. He said in the past year they do almost exclusively domestic. He said over a year ago they used to get a decent amount of international.

The 330 does do some decent domestic trips. He was doing a PEK-SYX-PEK. Almost 745 hours flight time for a one day trip and he gets to sleep in his own bed that night.

I haven't heard anything more about the 330 CCQ and I have asked a couple of 737 guys at Hainan. They didn't know.

[USMCProbe]

Sorry guys, back off topic as I am having a lot of fun with this. I just check APC again. In the last 24 hours URGE has changed his profile. He no longer claims on his profile to have flown any aircraft, and he doesn't claim any longer to be a "wide-body captain". Prior to this, and I checked yesterday, he claimed to be ex military, flew 707, 727, 737, a couple more Boeings, SA227, the A320, and A330. They have now been removed from his "profile".

Maybe I am wrong about you being a 16 year old? Maybe you are a fake. I will look into this with my parent company. I just had the head of the Safety Department at Hainan Airlines jumpseat on my aircraft 2 months ago. Nice guy and speaks near perfect english. He gave me his card..................

[Cachorrao]

With all these things about Hainan and hiring companies, then perhaps, this is the real deal:

Parc Aviation Recruitment and Resourcing

[radarvector320]

There is something about airplanes, ego's and fakes that go together. They are everywhere and a lot of them are trying their luck in China. Beware!!

[EAM]

With all these things about Hainan and hiring companies, then perhaps, this is the real deal:

Its not! You will be a junior Cpt, which actually means you are a FO in the left seat. Now all EU bases will be changed to B777, so very few chances of a EU base, presently its just MAD.

[Soab]

Thats very ambiguous. Two months training, at least 12 months as Cruise Captain or FO.

No set time to PIC, could take years or until you get p%$$@! off and leave.

Maybe I could understand offering A320 FOs A330 FO or Cruise Capt slots with upgrade 'possibly' within 3 years, but Capts??

Has anyone accepted such an offer?

[USMCProbe]

S

Originally Posted by urge

USMCProbe,

Just wanted to give you a heads up. First of all on forums, people tend to get heated and sometimes find themselves embellishing to get a point across which there is no doubt I have. I can't give all the details on the forum for the program I'm in. Anyhow, some Chinese airlines are hiring guys with no PIC time on type and some are doing it with under 500 as long as you have good number of hours and PIC time. International experience is useful too. Hainan Airlines is working both, and i've only seen a couple recruiters advertising for one of them.
Anyhow, I am a twice furloughed guy that is trying to make ends meet, and to keep a roof over my head and feed my family. You are fortunate enough to be able to take a leave at UAL while many of us did not have that opportunity. I'm kind of leading the bunch on how this program goes, so I must be positive. If i can get through, then it opens up the doors for those guys with high hours but with PIC time elsewhere. Nothing is official yet, but hoping other furloughees that had to go international might have a chance of salvaging their careers for awhile. What I am asking is for you to not rock the boat on this program please. Not sure if Hainan Airlines is doing anything different under the Hainan Group or not relative to the other airlines. Yes, we can sling mud all day long on a forum but now it's on a different level when it could affect a family.

__________________________________________________________

Sorry, off topic again. URGE pmailed me a couple of times, the first one civil, the second one threatening. I told him I would not post his first email to PPRUNE, but then he threatened me as well. The mantra of the guilty?

Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter accusations. His first pmail is cut and pasted from my PPRUNE email. His second email is far worse.

This guy deserves the 2012 Darwin Award for Career Progression. He "outed" himself, publicly, on PPRUNE and APC. If he had just kept his mouth and keyboard shut, he might have had a shot at pulling it off, as I am sure many others have. I still can't believe it.

From his first couple of posts over a month ago, I just thought the guy was a kid. He had a small amount of knowledge, but it seemed like little real experience. Add his immature rants at everyone. I really thought he was a 16 year old. When I was glancing at my old airline forum on APC, and saw URGE, I still thought he was a kid, looking for info.

URGE, you are my hero.

"Snatching Defeat, from the jaws of Victory"

[USMCProbe]

Soab;
Yeah exactly my thoughts. Giving up the left seat, for the right, in the contract world? For LESS MONEY than just getting a 320 job in the same city?

Unless they open it up to right seaters, I would be surprised if too many signed on. Wait a minute, I forgot about URGE.

[captjns]

Contimplating interviewing with Hainan. Any input on QOL, honoring T&Cs? Thanks for any input.

[NoodleAir]

USProbe this is really humiliating for you amigo
I've followed your dialogues with urge in this forum but I would never expect someone to fall so low.

Playing Sherlock is not enough for you, then you launch a witch-hunt in HNA and KAL forums for an unnamed forum member that you suspect to be fake!!!!!!! How laughable is that. Why don't you call their mgmt instead?
Then you 're posting his PM(!) for us to see.... There is nothing wrong in his reply
If someone sounds like a kid this is you: "someone called me a whiner and that I only fly NB, I'll show him now...." Pathetic attitude. Its hard to believe you are flying planes

Everybody knows the Chinese monitor these forums and everybody knows how many problems have been created from our own comments in forums (starting from good old HK and Cathay examples).
If you cannot help by sharing information then stay out of these forums.
Many people just listen and hardly ever post. You don't have to pollute their screens with soap opera level of comments and confrontations (and so many posts boy!)

Get a life

[DauphinDude]

Yeah, people gets scared not to post :-/

[urge]

Need to clear the air now.

Thank you Noodle Air for seeing thru what USMCProbe is doing. I am shocked that he takes offense that i'm saying his advice is not pertinent for the original poster of this thread and he's being so vindictive. Anyhow, i have to clear the air now, since he not only posted a PM i sent him, but then accused me of threatening him with a second PM and that that email was way worse. Well, why didn't he post that PM then, if that was the case? Maybe because i found some questionable things he said on the forum and how we misquoted me, placed words in my mouth to look as if i had given illegal advice to someone about a type rating conversion in Canada. Well, i will let people read the PM to ascertain for themselves if my PM was threatening, bad, or out of line. My whole premise was to avoid putting details on a forum, because of what NoodleAir said is correct; the Chinese do peruse on forums. My focus wasn't on me when addressing him, it was for the group of pilots trying to get into new programs that are coming online much like Air Asia hiring F/O's as A320 DECs. I didn't want to waste my time trying to defend myself on every attack USMCProbe wanted to throw at me, but he had already gone a bit far before, but with his last posting of my PM, that finally did it along with his inaccurate accusations of threats. Please read for yourself. I am not going to continue feeding into his misguided efforts after this. So here is the 2nd PM i sent him below uncut.

PM Sent FEB 06
If it’s just me that you’re inquiring about, that’s fine, but it’s the program I’m concerned about. I was asking about being tact with questioning the program, since sub-500 PIC, junior CAP, and some other programs are starting up that would help a lot of guys but they are not firmly cemented. I’m not worried about my pilot credentials, like type ratings and military/commercial experience.

As for the CCQ issue in Canada reply, you posted a huge character defamation. I never said in my post that you can use your knowledge to convert F/O logged time to PIC logged time. That can’t be done since it has to be verified by the FAA first. The poster asked “As I understand it, SIC type ratings do not exist with TC. So if I have a few of those and convert the license, will they convert as full PIC type ratings?” It was about the type ratings, not logged time. And my answer is accurate, that TC does not distinguish between the two. FAA does if you try to convert from TC to FAA, because they request all training paperwork to validate directly from TC, not the applicant. I then said to use it to your advantage, because as an F/O, applying for an F/O position, some foreign companies want a PIC type, which shouldn’t be required if you are applying for an F/O position. I just didn’t go on the forum to counter what you said. It’s one thing to question someone’s opinion, but character attacks are another.

And for a previous service member, I can’t believe you posted me being “discharged” as a negative character attack again. I was honorably “discharged”, not separated or retired. There is a huge difference between these military exits from the eyes of the military. I think you to need pull it back a notch on any military career attacks.

A fake pilot I am not, it’s how I technically used some of the words that could give a different impression, but the wording is correct regardless. China does a comprehensive check, and they have a valid process to confirm info, and I’m comfortable with their system. All I ask from you is to not discredit or grieve about their programs. Not sure if it really matters, but would rather show concern for the other pilots looking to get into these programs.

Consider this scenario. What if I did a reverse inquiry thru my company on someone trying to check up on me from Capitol? What if I showed them that this person had posted advice on a forum advising any other pilot flying for a Chinese airline to unethically circumvent a battery powered blood pressure tester and that you can just pay an 18 year old Chinese person to wear it for 24 hours. In fact, you said the next time you’ll do it. Not sure if you didn’t do it the first time. How do you think your contact person, your company or the CAAC will react to that? If I was going to be vindictive that wouldn’t look good for anyone. We both know that there are pilots everywhere, friends, coworkers from your previous companies that are doing things to keep their medical licenses. If I pursued this, I could in fact be jeopardizing other people’s jobs at your current company, other Hainan group companies or throughout China. That’s my point and why I ask you to walk discretely if you are going down this path. Believe it or not, there isn’t that much dirt on me concerning what an employer would want to know about me. You have your other clarifications up top. Take care.

[worldrover]

DauphinDude, what do you mean by this comment? "people gets scared not to post"

NoodleAir, I agree with your comments. I previously commented on someone naming people as fake on this forum. Actually posting names!!!
This does look like a witch hunt. I checked the KAL thread and Probe's "heads up" inquiry about Urge. Ridiculous.-

I read some good posts from Probe that were quite informative and thats what he should stick to.

This obsession that some members have with what they call "fakes" is very harmful for the expat community.
If you look into the facts (no rumours and allegations) excepting Indians, Vietnamese and other Asian countries licensed pilots, there have been less than a handful of cases of westerners that were accused of manipulating their credentials. And even in these cases, we do not know how things were proven to be later at the courts. Sure enough these pilots lost their jobs, but I am not sure they lost their defending cases in the end. Counting your PICUS as PIC is one thing, manufacturing a license from scratch is another.

Most of the "loud" cases were examples of the latter, with people having 200TT and pretending to be Jet rated, or 500 F/O pretending to be Cpts with 5000TT. Every single pilot I know can distinguish someone like that by the way they even take their seat in the sim ride. With JAA and FAA license background, and especially with airline certified logged hours, you are very limited with what you can pretend to be.

Now, China is kind of an aviation Eldorado right now, with the authorities and the companies trying to catch up with the explosive growth, while they do not know exactly how to handle things, check credentials etc. That is why we think they are too strict with some things and too lenient (clueless I would say) with others.
They do offer high salaries in return, but their checks and tests are quite strict from what I hear, even from USMCProbe. Companies asking for 500PIC on type that later accept people with less do it for a reason, and that doesn't mean that these guys are fake. They will go through all the checks.

Many people (me incl) are considering an Asian jump and yes the only attraction is money. Is USMCP there for some other reason?
And furthermore, yes its even more attractive to the recently upgraded Cpt, or the low jet time F/O. But if you were like them where would you be looking at? DEC for BA?

Stop digging holes that are too big for everyone to avoid, or soon you will be experiencing "stazi" like attitude from the Chinese, where everyone is guilty until proven otherwise. Not pleasant.

I don't know if some members need to "get a life" but they definitely need to have some respect for themselves and their fellow pilots.

Maybe the moderator can address the issue with the namedropping too.

[the grove]

Couldn't disagree more. The people "harming the expat community" are not those who expose the fakes. It is the fakes that harm us all, and they deserve to be exposed!

I went back through Urge's previous posts and this guy is a chronic liar and an obvious fraud. Should we tolerate such low life fakers among our ranks, knowing the damage that they can do to the expat pilot community at large? Of course not.

Save the crocodile tears for this con man. The sooner he is on his way to a new career, the better.

[captjns]

Posts like these may be avoided if the contracting agencies would perform their due diligence in conducting professional and credential background checks before moving to the interview phase.

Alas... they are part of the problem too.

[USMCProbe]

Fake pilots put everyone at risk, especially those who they are paid to carry safely to their destinations.

Fake pilots dilute the trust that the public has in us.

Fake pilots dilute the value of our decades of dedication and experience.

A couple guys here defending fake pilots? Really? I can't for the life of me understand why anyone who spent 15-25 years getting to the top of his profession, being sympathetic to someone who took shortcuts, and faked his way to the top. You guys really want to defend this?

I can only think of one reason anyone would defend them, but I won't make that accusation. I am sure everyone else is thinking the same as me.

[USMCProbe]

Worldrover;
I just clicked on your profile. "see other posts by Worldrover". If you are not URGE. You are mini-URGE. Hopefully you are actually an actual 320 skipper, unlike URGE who is an extremely junior UAL 320 right seater. And you have defended fake pilots more than once on PPRUNE. You don't value your Captain experience? You think it is OK for a 1000 hr 320 right seater to fly a 330 left seat?
I anxiously await your comments. Hopefully you will "out "yourself as URGE has.

Speed and Angels on the left.
USMCPROBE

[worldrover]

My dear USMCP, I expected nothing less from someone like you.

I will not leave you anxiously awaiting my comments.

"Speed and Angels on the left" !!! Who are you? the Pilot Messiah? You need to change your medication...

Every single member of this forum that will confront you will be characterized as "fake" or something equally negative.
Your same old story of checking older posts and interpreting them the way you prefer. Feel free to do so. Most people have sound judgement, not everyone though so you might get some supporters.
Everyone is entitled to his opinion, even people that are mentally limited like you prove to be.

My conclusions (deduced reckoning-your way) are that you failed to be properly employed in the US (with this attitude you must have failed every single aptitude test in the book, conspiracies around you and people after you!!!) so you ended up taking the last open seat left in China. You probably have no wife and no life like a member suggested, and you perfectly fit the profile of the deeply complexed scrutineering officer of the former Communist Republics as we see them in the movies. No pussy, no fun, so why don't we make everyone else miserable.
Should we add the conclusions pertinent to your alias name, USMC related, you probably tried hard but failed to join them, so another big personal failure and wound that has not healed.

All your comments are negative, and your bigoted attitude brings out your hidden real personality.

I have never defended any fake pilots. Nobody I've ever met was fake. I do defend people from guys like you though, that very easily make accusations.
Its better to free 10 that are guilty that to convict one that is innocent my friend. I am sure you haven't learned that in elementary school. You don't sound like you have a deeper background, culture or manners anyway.

I do value my Captain experience, more than you should though. Some people see the upgrade as a normal step forward, while some like you, see it as the ascend to the throne. No looking back, now its time to F@#@ everyone back and so on. Who knows what you went through you poor child.
You were fortunate (lucky clearly) enough to get a chance on the LHS and now noone is more worthy that you, or at least anyone not agreeing with you. I can tell you one thing, you wouldn't stand a chance in the first world. I've seen people like you almost crying, knocked down from their high horse after coming back from an EK interview (they never even make the first test at EU majors let alone interview) and I am sure the US wouldn't have been easier on you either.

Why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself? Prove who you are?
Come out of the closet maybe.... I wouldn't be surprised with anything!
Do you dare being sincere and tell everyone if I am right?

Anyway, like I elaborately explained in my last post, I do not think people with 1000TT fly A330 LHS not even in Africa. This is an urban myth, for people like you to have an excuse to pollute the forum. If they do, give us one example (not a story), and in any case, I imagine this would happen to an airline that has absolutely NO aviation background or will to learn from professionals that can be employed by them.
Maybe you need a stamp and certificate to tell an experienced pilot, but I can smell it from the way he moves in the crew room.

Obviously you are not experienced enough my boy. The fact you have been in China earlier that other people does not make you en expert in aviation. The same way a taxi driver with 2 million miles under his belt cannot drive one lap in a racing car without crashing. Of course it feels good to jump into every single chance and posting your opinion, showing off to fellow pilots that the closest they've been to China is a visit to the local Wagamama (Chinese restaurant chain in Europe, you wouldn't know, nothing wrong with being a Hillbilly)
But the bottom end is that people with enough experience will identify in you the problematic F/O that shouldn't have been promoted.

You are an embarrassment to our profession

I hope such a long reply was enough to "out" myself.

Fell free to write back your venomus comments, will be entertaining