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Korean Air

Old 1st Feb 2010, 14:27
  #181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ursus
Posts: 15
A330 Contract?

Hi. I can't seem to find much info on the A330 fleet here. Anyone here on that fleet? I'm considering the A330 NTR route, but if IOE is anything like it sounds like on the 777, it's possible I could be stuck with a 330 type without any significant time on type to find another job somewhere if they don't take to me. I'm a current A320 CA btw, but my airline is going downhill fast. So basically, if anyone can chime in, what's life like on the 330?

Last edited by Priority Left; 1st Feb 2010 at 14:29. Reason: typo
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 19:48
  #182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
faaatp, we're talking about the Capt T&C, not F/O.

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Old 4th Feb 2010, 12:26
  #183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Over the Pacific
Posts: 27
That was a snotty little remark. FO/Captain why should it matter? People should know that there are about a dozen different contracts, none of which are followed.

When FO's lost Free Tickets, A day off (there are 8 days off boys and girls, not 9 (Actually 6 hard, 3 soft) as it says in the contract, Captains get 9, FO's travel on there last day off sometimes in ECONOMY), limited Zeds ect, ect. Nobody gave a flying...

So now, what's the point with the seats for Captains? There is none. First Class is not guaranteed for Captains when traveling to home leave. Be glad you still get paid the same and are not buying your last day off so you can have the same home leave as it says in the contract.

737NG is 100% right about this place. Nothing that is written on paper means anything to these guys. The Agencies will not back any contract if Korean changes it. Window dressing, exactly.

I do like the commercials however.
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Old 4th Feb 2010, 15:02
  #184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
That was a snotty little remark. FO/Captain why should it matter?
Well Wally, when you sign for the aircraft, then you'll have a mouth to talk. Until then, you are flying on OUR licence.

Selecting the Gear Lever UP or DOWN.

Try giving the F/Os a better deal than the Capts in UPS/FEDEX/UNITED or whoever else you wanna quote, and then we can talk
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Old 6th Feb 2010, 07:30
  #185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 16
KAL Does Not Honor Contracts

Anyone interested in joining Korean Air should think twice! Your contract is not worth the paper it's written on and terms and conditions are constantly being changed!

Now the Korean Government has changed the tax rates and this will effect all expat pilots with Korean Air.
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Old 15th Feb 2010, 09:29
  #186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Over the Pacific
Posts: 27
Gengis:

You might want to sit down with the CASA regulations for a little while and see how and to whom penalties are dealt out while flying on "Your" license. You get back to me on that.

"Gear up, Gear down"? Really? Heading back to the stone age of CRM? Nice. There's a bunch of balled up Aluminum to prove that crew concept. Was that how you address that question type in your job interview? I doubt it.

And....FO's don't get a voice when their contracts been run over by a truck but Captains need to be heard? Or is the FO's "Don't have a Voice" thing just when your flying.

FEDEX? UPS? What are you talking about now? Your saying FO's at Korean have a better deal than Captains at UPS and FEDEX? What?


Last edited by WallyBallbearing; 15th Feb 2010 at 09:50.
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Old 15th Feb 2010, 11:38
  #187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,572
"Gear up, Gear down"? Really? Heading back to the stone age of CRM? Nice.
I always thought so...works for me.
Of course, that's when I fly the airplane...as I give away most of the sectors now, anyway, the First Officer has little to complain about.
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Old 15th Feb 2010, 13:54
  #188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Wally: irrelevant. What is being discussed here is the Capt contract - not the F/O contract - for which you, in post 186 described "snotty".

As to flying on our licence, the fine/penalties come don't come to you. Unless you imagined so.

As for stone aged crm, it gets dished out only on whoever so has it coming. The vast majority of F/Os who fly with me - locals & expats alike - don't have any such issues. Perhaps it's only behind the cloak of PPRuNe anonymity that a 'decent' F/O starts spewing out diatribes.... that illicits a necessary response.

End of matter.
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Old 15th Feb 2010, 22:35
  #189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 15
No

If you don't have time on type I wouldn't recomend it, they are mean and racist, they don't want you here.
And you would not get ever a chance to upgrade.
the failure rate is more than half.
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Old 16th Feb 2010, 02:22
  #190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The lion city
Posts: 368
Wador

If you don't have time on type I wouldn't recomend it, they are mean and racist, they don't want you here.

Does the people or the government of UK or anywhere else allow to recruit any expat pilots?? I don't think so. PERIOD.

So by Korean not giving any upgrade to expat FOs it is very logical and it makes sense. Unless UK, AUS or North American countries would be giving the same opportunities to any expats a chance first without being an EU national or a Green card Holder than there's no arguments.
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Old 16th Feb 2010, 04:35
  #191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,572
Does the people or the government of UK or anywhere else allow to recruit any expat pilots?? I don't think so. PERIOD.

So by Korean not giving any upgrade to expat FOs it is very logical and it makes sense.
Well said.
Expats are hired because the airline does not have enough national pilots.
Many younger expats, new to the game, will just have to learn the hard way that, when enough national pilots are available, their job goes away and/or any upgrade possibility goes up in smoke.
I would ask...why would anyone think it to be otherwise?
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Old 16th Feb 2010, 17:00
  #192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Middle East
Posts: 87
etops777,

Some countries do pretty much that, and go one step further. I can only speak for Canada but you can move there as a non-citizen (like an expat), work for a non-Canadian company (example KAL) for three years and then be eligible for canadian citizenship. I.E. you get the passport.

411A:

Regarding your statement about expats at Korean. The prime reason for KAL hiring expats is insuranced/safety based due their past history. They have little choice in the matter. I believe the requirement is somewhere about 20%, but I'm not certain on that. If they didn't hire the expat fliers, they would not be operating internationally today.

Jinglie'd
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Old 16th Feb 2010, 17:17
  #193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The lion city
Posts: 368
Jinglied

Will Air Canada or any US airlines hire anyone without first being a green card holder right? I am very sure that you need first to be a Permanent residence before you can even apply to those airlines. Simple....so no expat can be hired onto these airlines...
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Old 16th Feb 2010, 20:07
  #194 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: on top of the world
Posts: 5
ETOPS:
Will Air Canada or any US airlines hire anyone without first being a green card holder right? I am very sure that you need first to be a Permanent residence before you can even apply to those airlines. Simple....so no expat can be hired onto these airlines...
Yes this is correct. However, I think what Jinglied was trying to say is a little different. He was talking about residing there (Canada) while being gainfully employed by a foreign company. That's a different scenario altogether. Back to your question, practically speaking if one were a highly experienced pilot - by "highly experienced" I am referring to meeting wide-body DEC requirements for a major Asian flag carrier - it would not really be in your favor financially to try to go to Air Canada or any US airline. Because no matter your flying experience, you'd be going in at the bottom of the pile and start building your seniority from there. By the time you get back up to where you were before, you'd be so far behind the curve you may as well be starting your own carpentry business on the sideline to make up the difference. Only if you had age very much on your side would this be a viable option.
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Old 16th Feb 2010, 21:23
  #195 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: At 41300ft
Posts: 91
Guys..

are this people very strict on the requirements? I mean, I have all the min reqs for the A330 Non Type Rated position, excepting the 2 years university college diploma as they want... I have my normal high school diploma. Now, would they ever consider my application at all?

1300 total 1010 on type (A320), CAT II & III, ICAO English Level 6.
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 03:23
  #196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Over the Pacific
Posts: 27
Gengis:

What was being discussed was Korean Air..Period.

You want to say who you really are on this forum? I will happily do the same.

I have nothing but a great rep with Korean. Can't say the say for you (ya, I know who you are).

You didn't bother to pick up the CASA regs huh? Where you out practicing your signature?

If you bothered to look it says when penalties are dealt, it goes to flight crew, no, not Captain, Fo..all flight crew. So you may get it out of the barn, but you don't take it anywhere with out me sweetheart, and we all pay for mistakes. Also, check you aircraft operation requirements in the casa regs. You guys aren't even right seat qualified? You cant do the job. Not in Casas eyes. So who operates on whose license? Last time I looked it was a 2 crew airplane.

I would be so happy to meet you and discuss this in person.
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 03:52
  #197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Over the Pacific
Posts: 27
Gengis:

Also. you said: other fo's dont have issues? Are you kidding?

Listen here bro: You have no idea what your talking about, at all.

Our contract has been blown to smithereens. there were 10 fo's on my starting class 4 remain. There are numerous firings monthly of both captains and FO's, for nothing. there is over 60% of the fo's hired in the last 3 years, quit or fired. The experiment failed.

If any one is blowing you its because they need the job and are scared that your going to rat them out to company if they complain (which you will). Which they should not because, your nobody. But they don't know that.

My advise to you Captain: Quit trying to be "The man", because, like many before you. You don't realize your nobody in Korean Air culture. You will become a statistic like many more before you. On this forum you appear to be the "go to" but your not. You are a charlatan.

BTW I'm still very open to true identities on this forum, you want to go together?
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 05:09
  #198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Wally, my my.... getting personal now.


Fact: Your post #186 in response to mine #185, which stated the fact to faaatp - who had posted a clause in his contract - that the discussion up to that point was about the Capt's travel, not the FOs. Do you dispute this?

Fact: Who's signature is it that is on the Flight Plan - yours or the guy's in the left?

Fact: Who's signature is it that is on the Flight & Maint Log - yours or the guy's in the left?

Fact: Does the guy in the left fly when you say so, or do you fly whenever/wherever he says so? And when he doesn't say so, you select the gear & flaps. Do you dispute this? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Fact: Nobody is trying to be "the Man". The discussion up to #184 WAS about travelling changes?


Now tell me, which of the above do you deny? Or perhaps it is different in Emirates.


PS - my reference about F/Os not having issues was not directed at the F/O contract. It was directed at how we get along in-flight.

PS - Identities have no bearing in the discussion. It remains that it is about KAL contract and T&C. All your pontificating does not alter that.
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 08:56
  #199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Over the Pacific
Posts: 27
Personal Works. I wonder Gengis, would you line up a group of expat FO's and mouth off about "Gear up, Gear down" to them? I highly doubt it. Talk about anonymity some more.

I'm not even going to go into CASA differences and penalties from FAA or JAA, who's responsible. You should know this stuff 1# and 2# why don't you justify that signature and know what your talking about before you make you little lists of so called "facts".

You remember the little blue book you studied for you Korean ATPL? Go get it and tell me where its says PIC or Captain. It states FLIGHT CREW. Your confusing the FOM and CASA rules.

In any case. With regards to Captains and or FO's contracts:

Until the contractors are taken to task on the issue of contract violation nothing will happen.

Korean is losing a lot of Pilots because of it.

There is a massive about of animosity towards expats at Korean Air and (I think) the union as well as the military Pilots, put a lot of pressure on Management , the Government, ect. to erode what benefits are in place for Expats now. I guess they want a better deal and because they can't get it, there messing with us. When Korean takes benefits away they don't have to worry about Pilots much because:

1. You will never go to the office to find anyone to talk to about it, plus everyone was told not to years ago (see getting canned).

2. The Expat Pilot relations guy can and will.... do nothing.

3. You contract is with the Agency not Korean Air
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 09:22
  #200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Let the record show that you have not answered the questions in #202.

On this point:
Until the contractors are taken to task on the issue of contract violation nothing will happen.

Korean is losing a lot of Pilots because of it.

There is a massive about of animosity towards expats at Korean Air and (I think) the union as well as the military Pilots, put a lot of pressure on Management , the Government, ect. to erode what benefits are in place for Expats now. I guess they want a better deal and because they can't get it, there messing with us. When Korean takes benefits away they don't have to worry about Pilots much because:

1. You will never go to the office to find anyone to talk to about it, plus everyone was told not to years ago (see getting canned).

2. The Expat Pilot relations guy can and will.... do nothing.

3. You contract is with the Agency not Korean Air

We can agree here.
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