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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

Old 16th Sep 2018, 05:17
  #1561 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hanoi
Posts: 34
Stay away

Originally Posted by Merovingio View Post
Thank you. May I have any feedback of ambient, roster, commuting chances for 350 first officer in vna? Thank you.
My friend, i can tell you all you want. To start, joining VNA as Captain is not a good idea, so you can imagine as FO, is even worse. The A350 fleet is good, but will be around 1-2 more years that the expat FO will be fired again. The growing of the fleet will be stopped ( they will receive just 2 more aircraft this year and no more A350 for VNA ), and when this happens, the A350 fleet, even 787 fleet will be filled with local guys, pushing out all expat. That's the plan of the comoany. The thing is that now they have a huge hole that they need to cover, and the agencies are just.... I will not say the word... So when the expat coming now save their ass... And when they don't need you anymore, they will not care about your life or whatever, you will receive 60 days notice and goodbye. Knowing this company, i could say that the ONLY one reason to come, is if you have a contract where "at least" they remove the part of the 60 days notice, and some compensation in case of being fired before the agreed time signed on the contract. If not, better stay away. You don't know when, but will happen, you can't feel safe here bro. My recommendation, stay away. I just left the company almost one year ago, and after that, i was wondering... What the hell i was doing there the last 15 years... Finally, if you decide to come, more as an FO, doesn't matter which fleet, you take the risk to have a serious problem in your career, more with A350, because will be not easy to find a job with this TR when they fire you.

Just one example of what they were managing. To fire expat makes them so happy, i tell you. This info is updated continuosly. The last info i had was last month, when they expect to cut up to 250 Captains and 0 FO's expat by 2020. So, on your own risk guys, don't believe the agencies!!!!
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 13:22
  #1562 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Yesse View Post

My friend, i can tell you all you want. To start, joining VNA as Captain is not a good idea, so you can imagine as FO, is even worse. The A350 fleet is good, but will be around 1-2 more years that the expat FO will be fired again. The growing of the fleet will be stopped ( they will receive just 2 more aircraft this year and no more A350 for VNA ), and when this happens, the A350 fleet, even 787 fleet will be filled with local guys, pushing out all expat. That's the plan of the comoany. The thing is that now they have a huge hole that they need to cover, and the agencies are just.... I will not say the word... So when the expat coming now save their ass... And when they don't need you anymore, they will not care about your life or whatever, you will receive 60 days notice and goodbye. Knowing this company, i could say that the ONLY one reason to come, is if you have a contract where "at least" they remove the part of the 60 days notice, and some compensation in case of being fired before the agreed time signed on the contract. If not, better stay away. You don't know when, but will happen, you can't feel safe here bro. My recommendation, stay away. I just left the company almost one year ago, and after that, i was wondering... What the hell i was doing there the last 15 years... Finally, if you decide to come, more as an FO, doesn't matter which fleet, you take the risk to have a serious problem in your career, more with A350, because will be not easy to find a job with this TR when they fire you.

Just one example of what they were managing. To fire expat makes them so happy, i tell you. This info is updated continuosly. The last info i had was last month, when they expect to cut up to 250 Captains and 0 FO's expat by 2020. So, on your own risk guys, don't believe the agencies!!!!
15 years is as long as i have been here.

there were not that many ex pats here then, and i dont know you.
ia1166 is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 14:25
  #1563 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 0
What I have been hearing ,it is, by 2023, it will be no more expats in VNA ( FOs and Cpts ).

Good luck, if you chose to come to VNA !
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 04:59
  #1564 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: asia
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by kimono1950 View Post
What I have been hearing ,it is, by 2023, it will be no more expats in VNA ( FOs and Cpts )
Kimono, previously you stated that in 2018, after that 2020, now 2023? Youíre such a reliable source! If youíre still flying in VNA, what are you doing there? all you do is complain. If youíre not flying in VNA anymore, why all the complaints? let it go and get a life man! There are plenty of pilots who actually enjoy flying in VNA, if it wasnít because of the money, I would probably still be there. You are so blinded by your negativity that you canít see the bright side and just to remind you, there is no perfect job out there, or is there?
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 17:25
  #1565 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by pezetaroi View Post


Kimono, previously you stated that in 2018, after that 2020, now 2023? You’re such a reliable source! If you’re still flying in VNA, what are you doing there? all you do is complain. If you’re not flying in VNA anymore, why all the complaints? let it go and get a life man! There are plenty of pilots who actually enjoy flying in VNA, if it wasn’t because of the money, I would probably still be there. You are so blinded by your negativity that you can’t see the bright side and just to remind you, there is no perfect job out there, or is there?


I have never say by 2018 VNA wouldn't t have any expat ! I said by 2018 it will be no more expat FOs on the A330. The 2020 was a forecast from the chief pilot, back in 2017.

Now the latest news are 2023. If you are flying in VNA ask any vietnamese pilot about that.

But , you are right , in VNA there is no reliable source, as these monkeys are not able to organise any business plan.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 02:16
  #1566 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,673
There may indeed have been a plan to reduce expat numbers, before VJ and Bamboo started plundering all the local pilots, but the fact is that right now the Vietnamese captains and high time FOs are leaving faster than they can upgrade them. They can’t get more locals, so their option is either to hire more expats, or park aircraft.

A330 was a special case because the fleet was getting finished. We (the FOs) were all offered the A350 RHS but most of us chose not to take it, because we had offers from several other companies to go and take quick commands elsewhere.

There are certainly issues of concern here, but job security isn’t one of them, for anybody except Kimono anyway ��
Luke SkyToddler is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2018, 06:25
  #1567 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Luke SkyToddler View Post
There may indeed have been a plan to reduce expat numbers, before VJ and Bamboo started plundering all the local pilots, but the fact is that right now the Vietnamese captains and high time FOs are leaving faster than they can upgrade them. They can’t get more locals, so their option is either to hire more expats, or park aircraft.

A330 was a special case because the fleet was getting finished. We (the FOs) were all offered the A350 RHS but most of us chose not to take it, because we had offers from several other companies to go and take quick commands elsewhere.

There are certainly issues of concern here, but job security isn’t one of them, for anybody except Kimono anyway ��

Job security isn t a concern in VNA ? Are you kidding ? You should ask to the B777 crews, the A330/321 FOs what choices they had !

You said all the FOs on the A330 were offered the A350 ? That is a lie. The proof is that only 5 FOs were taken in the A350 ( 1 indian, 1 spaniard, 3 russians ).

About the vietnamese pilots, you forget VNA has hired 750 cadets ( plus some foreigners P2F). In 3 to 5 years, some of these cadets will be upgraded .
I am telling you, there is no futur for the expats in VNA.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 06:40
  #1568 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Ruzki View Post
This is was 1 year ago ( not 10 years ago )

Dear A321 First Officers,

As you will be aware, there is growing uncertainty around the future of the A321 First Officer role at VNA and unfortunately, overnight, we were advised that VNA will soon be releasing A321 First Officers (with 60 days notice).

At this time we do not know who or when, but indications are that notice will be given in stages throughout the year, commencing this month.

RAL is continuing to communicate with VNA about this situation and will keep you updated with any news as we receive it, so that you will be fully updated as you consider your future options.

We understand that this is very difficult news to hear, and we will do our best to assist you as much as possible over the coming months. Given this news, however, we strongly recommend that you start to take steps now to secure your next contract opportunity.

Regarding opportunities available to you, I note that we work very closely with Jetstar Pacific and they are currently recruiting A320 FOs. Please find attached the brief outlining details of this role. Also attached are briefing documents for other roles that you may qualify for and be interested in. Please do not hesitate to contact the Recruitment Consultant noted on the brief for further information about any of these roles, and copy me into your email.

Once again, we will keep you all updated as news come to hand. In the meantime, if you have any further questions, please let me know.

Kind regards,
Regional Manager

if someone thinking to apply be sure in 1/2 years when the new cadets will be ready is going to happen again.
this is not at rumor this is a fact
About job security in VNA
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 15:04
  #1569 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Here
Posts: 932
Fancy low pay, mels galore, asshole connected FOs low job security with no back up from your management, welcome yo join VNA!!!
BAe 146-100 is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2018, 19:47
  #1570 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by kimono1950 View Post
About job security in VNA
You guys keep cracking me up (making me laugh in American English). You are looking for job security in the airline industry ? Ever considered becoming a Doctor, policeman or a lawyer ? Here is job security for you.

For those new to the contract world or living on Planet Delusional like Kimono:
- you are on loan by an agency. You are NOT working for THE airline.
- as a contractor you may be lucky to upgrade or change fleets as it has happened at VNA in the past, but you cannot expect it.
- you are looking for same treatment as the loclas: stay in your coutry and be a part of the locals.
- the length of your contract is worthless. The contract can be terminated from BOTH sides within a written time frame. This also gives you as pilot a way out, incase you are not happy where you are.
- you are being paid to fly an airplane from A to B and not to get involved in company planning and politics. This is THEIR company, your company is your agent.
- in most cases your contract will be honored and you will get paid on time for the services you provide. This is it.

Like many airlines, VNA is facing massive challenges. I was there many years.
Pros: Locals are mostly very nice, friendly and welcoming. They are a pleasure to work with. Pay is on time. Plenty new birds to fly and Vietnam is simply awsome and offers a very laid back life style. Despite the crazy traffic.
Cons: Substandard contract. No pay raise in almost 10 years, while inflation is through the roof. If you bring your family, you will be paycheck to paycheck. Overcrowded ATC environment and diminishing standards on flight deck, making the operation very challenging and extremely stressful.

Again, if you are looking for job security, consider becoming a firefighter 😜.


wingdeagle is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2018, 07:46
  #1571 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 0
I was not there for a job security but to have my contract fulfil ! That is a big difference !
Now the people here, have been lied upon and deceived by a bunch of monkey boys ,whom does not respect what they have signed. They just give you 60 days, make you fly until your PPC expire and then goodbye.
Try to do the same on your side , you will see the difference.
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 13:34
  #1572 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by kimono1950 View Post
I was not there for a job security but to have my contract fulfil ! That is a big difference !
Now the people here, have been lied upon and deceived by a bunch of monkey boys ,whom does not respect what they have signed. They just give you 60 days, make you fly until your PPC expire and then goodbye.
Try to do the same on your side , you will see the difference.
Yours and all the other contracts had the 60 termination clause which in some cases the company opted to use. This is within their right, it’s brutal, it’s aviation business and it sucks, but it is legal. Why is it so hard to understand ?
When I left VNA I actually used the 60 day clause myself; as I said, this can be beneficial for both sides. There are expats who spent 20+ years in VNA and plenty with 10+. A rather unusual stat in the contract world.
They may have not fulfilled your expectations, but calling people of other nationality and race “monkeys” as you do in almost all of your posts makes me suspect, that this is the attitude and disrespect you must have shown the locals while being in Vietnam, so perhaps they had all the reason to.






wingdeagle is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2018, 15:24
  #1573 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nihon
Posts: 0
Wrong again !
kimono1950 is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2018, 15:52
  #1574 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: -
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by wingdeagle
If you bring your family, you will be paycheck to paycheck.
Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldnít find anything recent about this.
AVApilot is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2018, 16:16
  #1575 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: asia
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by AVApilot View Post


Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldnít find anything recent about this.
It all depends on your status. Are you single, married, kids, etc... Maybe if youíre a bit more specific on your plans I can have an idea...
pezetaroi is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2018, 16:25
  #1576 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by AVApilot View Post


Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldnít find anything recent about this.
PM me, I will give you a few numbers to work with. If you are single or there by yourself, itís ok money. With a family (children in international schools) think twice.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 10:57
  #1577 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 7
Kimono, a good advestisement for anger managament classes.

seriosly get some help. You cant be so angry and still be in the cockpit.

As far as job security? Over 14 years for me. New 5 year contract and i am not expecting to be terminated during it. As always keeping an eye on the situation and will leave before i am pushed, and wont be the last to turn the lights out.

but for now, i dont see any issues for my next five years.

The renumeration is too low now, so hoping something may be done. I am getting too many offers of more money to ignore.

If you are a contract expat FO then you are always at risk.
ia1166 is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2018, 01:28
  #1578 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by AVApilot View Post

Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldnít find anything recent about this.
Qaualiry, International Schooling prices are
going through the roof; especially in Hanoi and Da Nang; at the UN Intl. you will pay almost US$2k per kid; add to that a quality home somewhere nice, your 10.8 will start disappearing as quickly as you see it coming in...
EagleA25 is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2018, 13:29
  #1579 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Backdoor
Posts: 1
I can confirm that. Prices have gone up 20%. A good school will cost you 2000 USD. Don't forget also the premium you are paying because you are an expat, on everything that does not have price tag on it. Sometime up 4 times more then a local would have paid. VNA really needs to reconsider the salaries, specially now when Bamboo is opening.

Ciao,,,,
ROCCO SIFFREDI is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2018, 13:57
  #1580 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Backdoor
Posts: 1
Wow, we are getting a pay rise.... link PAY RISE .....or is it another trick to lure in pilots.
ROCCO SIFFREDI is offline  

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