Myanmar info request
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Myanmar info request
Hi all,
I am flying to Yangon in a couple of weeks time. As pilot (unemployed), I will take this opportunity to look for a job as I'm trying to move in asia for living since long time. I have the JAR CPL and ATPL (frozen) and the FAA CPL. I know that it is a difficult question, but if anybody has some info to share, I would really appreciate it a lot.
Thanks in advance anyway
tony
I am flying to Yangon in a couple of weeks time. As pilot (unemployed), I will take this opportunity to look for a job as I'm trying to move in asia for living since long time. I have the JAR CPL and ATPL (frozen) and the FAA CPL. I know that it is a difficult question, but if anybody has some info to share, I would really appreciate it a lot.
Thanks in advance anyway
tony
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There are few start up airlines but obviously linked to the Junta. (If not you cannot run any business). I have participated to the training of one cadet (son of an airline owner). I know there are few ATR 42/72 and there are some needs. (On a limited scale)
Observations from Thailand:
The Junta has moved the capital in the middle of nothing without announcing that to its neighbours. Until now ASEAN countries were smoothing the isolation of Burma, but the last developments show a deteriorating situation. There have been few attempts, some westerners involved and I have heard it was less and less recommended to go now. However there are few expats and I know some are expecting to make fortune in this country.
Skirmishes with KAREN people from time to time in the newspapers.
The economical situation is deteriorating also.
From the press it appears we are on the edge of an unstable situation
On Aviation side, the fleet is small, obviously they depend on military and expats pilots, they have no cadets until now (Except very particular cases, sons of VIP). If you are lucky it can be very great because the potential of the country is huge: 48 Millions of Inhabitants, nearly no roads and no railways. But you have to check by yourself very thoroughly the situation in order not to be involved in a turmoil.
As westerners, our skin colour is not the good one in such events.
Observations from Thailand:
The Junta has moved the capital in the middle of nothing without announcing that to its neighbours. Until now ASEAN countries were smoothing the isolation of Burma, but the last developments show a deteriorating situation. There have been few attempts, some westerners involved and I have heard it was less and less recommended to go now. However there are few expats and I know some are expecting to make fortune in this country.
Skirmishes with KAREN people from time to time in the newspapers.
The economical situation is deteriorating also.
From the press it appears we are on the edge of an unstable situation
On Aviation side, the fleet is small, obviously they depend on military and expats pilots, they have no cadets until now (Except very particular cases, sons of VIP). If you are lucky it can be very great because the potential of the country is huge: 48 Millions of Inhabitants, nearly no roads and no railways. But you have to check by yourself very thoroughly the situation in order not to be involved in a turmoil.
As westerners, our skin colour is not the good one in such events.
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If you are lucky...
you might have chance, if you are rated in ATR, I guess.. but I heard 2 ( oops, forgot another "airline?" . so total 3) of the airlines don't hire expats. Well, the " big man's " airline has got a jet, but I don't think they need any more expats - too expencive for them.
Maybe you should go and have a look. The place is very very behind.( you wouldn't believe what sort of life the local has got!!)
Good luck!
Maybe you should go and have a look. The place is very very behind.( you wouldn't believe what sort of life the local has got!!)
Good luck!
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Just today I have gotten some fresh news from a FI coming back from Burma and looking for a job there (In Airlines and ready to pay his TR): seems to be a dead end for the time being.
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Well, thank you all for the moment. For what I can read, it's not very encouraged to go there, not even for a short vacation. However, I was in Thailand twice last year and I could not find any openings for me; as i have found a cheap flight ticket to Yangon from Italy, I was hoping to have better luck in aviation over there. i am willing as well to pay my TR and line training if the job is offered. I have to decide in a few days if "go or don't go", will see.
Thanks again
Tony
Thanks again
Tony
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Yeah,...
A couple of expats guys left from Myanmar, And I heard they are not going to replace with expats any more... Not really encouraging, however you might be lucky if you knock on the door.... I know some airline out there are short of crew... because after these expats left, they are trying to train the locals but well, local guys take sooooo long to get on the line. Hence if they are desparate, they might consider.... !!
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All companies are trying to save money on pilots training, and unfortunately this is one of the main reasons for the pilot selections. In italy we have many examples about it. Even if they would like to hire italians, they still offer temporary contracts to foreigners for the time being. By the way, anyone knows where the Myanmar companies train their pilots? And how much would cost the T/R for ATR? I would like to knock the doors with more info possible.
Thanks all for your help
Tony
Thanks all for your help
Tony
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I told you, a Flight Instructor working in a neighbouring country in a professionnal school with 2500 h and willing to pay his TR, is just coming back from Myanmar, with no positive result.
For a TR on ATR there is a TRTO in Bangkok located in the "Thai International" building they have a FFS ATR , you can ask for their conditions. You will find easily their contact on Internet.
I think it will be one of the best possibility and maybe you can ask them about their customer needs in the region. Vietnam Airlines is hiring expats, but through agencies and only experienced guys. They have a fleet of ATR.
Name of the TRTO ASIAN ATR TRAINING CENTER (www.asianatr.com)
For a TR on ATR there is a TRTO in Bangkok located in the "Thai International" building they have a FFS ATR , you can ask for their conditions. You will find easily their contact on Internet.
I think it will be one of the best possibility and maybe you can ask them about their customer needs in the region. Vietnam Airlines is hiring expats, but through agencies and only experienced guys. They have a fleet of ATR.
Name of the TRTO ASIAN ATR TRAINING CENTER (www.asianatr.com)
Last edited by ASIAN FROG; 20th May 2006 at 01:06.
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ATR Rating
Hey Hey Hey
Tony the Italian, You can probably pick up an ATR type rating for about US$20k or there abouts! I am not sure whether AATC in Bangers do the ratings for private customers. But maybe the Asianfrog may know. I do know that you would probably need a SIM partner to train with. I also know that the airlines are easily contactable once you are in Rangoon/Yangon or what ever they are calling it now!.
Why not just call in and see the flight ops depts of these airlines when you go there and tell them how great they are and how you would just looooovvvveee to fly with them! Best of luck my man!
Tony the Italian, You can probably pick up an ATR type rating for about US$20k or there abouts! I am not sure whether AATC in Bangers do the ratings for private customers. But maybe the Asianfrog may know. I do know that you would probably need a SIM partner to train with. I also know that the airlines are easily contactable once you are in Rangoon/Yangon or what ever they are calling it now!.
Why not just call in and see the flight ops depts of these airlines when you go there and tell them how great they are and how you would just looooovvvveee to fly with them! Best of luck my man!
Been flying there quite a while, for big man's airline, on their only jet.
Another one is coming, me likely to do the ferry.
Local F/O salary is like 1200 US, judge for yourself if they like expats
Rumors are some big plane is coming, won't be flown be locals i reckon as their experience is quite limited.
But the country is great, apart from the political thing.
Something unlike everything else, a life's experience I wouldn't want to miss.
One year ago there've been some french pilots flying the ATRs of AirMandalay, but last time I checked most left already.
Mountains of burma, the road to mandalay;
mountains of burma, light years away... (song by midnight oil )
Another one is coming, me likely to do the ferry.
Local F/O salary is like 1200 US, judge for yourself if they like expats
Rumors are some big plane is coming, won't be flown be locals i reckon as their experience is quite limited.
But the country is great, apart from the political thing.
Something unlike everything else, a life's experience I wouldn't want to miss.
One year ago there've been some french pilots flying the ATRs of AirMandalay, but last time I checked most left already.
Mountains of burma, the road to mandalay;
mountains of burma, light years away... (song by midnight oil
)
To beef up my post with some inside information...
Before considering going there, please be aware of these things:
No GSM roaming, no way to get or use a mobile phone.
International calls are about 5 US$/min and likely to be monitored.
Internet slow and censored, hotmail, Yahoo and the like banned (others might work).
Bringing in or using satellite phones brings you into jail, directly.
All credit cards unacceptable within due to US sanctions.
Local currency subject to ~30% inflation. 1000 kyat biggest note, worth about 70 ¢. No foreign banks, no way to transfer money.
Power cuts are frequent, most hotels use their on generators.
Bomb blasts are a regular occurrance, check here for a history:
http://www.irrawaddy.org/aviewer.asp?a=5762&z=14
Aviation-wise:
Local AIP charts are unreliable, one time quoting a MSA of 1000' instead of 10,000' (...well...).
ATC capability limited, radar only now and then, weather reports like "wheathere ise hazy, otherwize suneshine".
Some airports have high terrain, but poor approach procedures (VYHH, VYPT). Better pack a GPS.
Weather can be heavy, monsoon rain makes airports close frequently, all approches exept RGN and MDL are timed beacon approaches only.
I wonder if some places could be operated out of with proper performance calculation taking into account the steep terrain. Glad I had fine weather most of the time!
Passenger facilities rather limited. No jetty, no computers used for check in (stickers taken from a paper to track seat allocations, even for Thai and Qatar checkin). Therefore no checkin for connections flight possbile.
Security screening far from our standards.
Terminal is rather dirty, facilities are leaking in all aspects.
Ground transport is sometimes scary. Two southern cross ferry pilots recently almost got killed.
Took a med evac to SIN to get them into a decent hospital. (wonder who paid!) None trustworthy here...
Before considering going there, please be aware of these things:
No GSM roaming, no way to get or use a mobile phone.
International calls are about 5 US$/min and likely to be monitored.
Internet slow and censored, hotmail, Yahoo and the like banned (others might work).
Bringing in or using satellite phones brings you into jail, directly.
All credit cards unacceptable within due to US sanctions.
Local currency subject to ~30% inflation. 1000 kyat biggest note, worth about 70 ¢. No foreign banks, no way to transfer money.
Power cuts are frequent, most hotels use their on generators.
Bomb blasts are a regular occurrance, check here for a history:
http://www.irrawaddy.org/aviewer.asp?a=5762&z=14
Aviation-wise:
Local AIP charts are unreliable, one time quoting a MSA of 1000' instead of 10,000' (...well...).
ATC capability limited, radar only now and then, weather reports like "wheathere ise hazy, otherwize suneshine".
Some airports have high terrain, but poor approach procedures (VYHH, VYPT). Better pack a GPS.
Weather can be heavy, monsoon rain makes airports close frequently, all approches exept RGN and MDL are timed beacon approaches only.
I wonder if some places could be operated out of with proper performance calculation taking into account the steep terrain. Glad I had fine weather most of the time!
Passenger facilities rather limited. No jetty, no computers used for check in (stickers taken from a paper to track seat allocations, even for Thai and Qatar checkin). Therefore no checkin for connections flight possbile.
Security screening far from our standards.
Terminal is rather dirty, facilities are leaking in all aspects.
Ground transport is sometimes scary. Two southern cross ferry pilots recently almost got killed.
Took a med evac to SIN to get them into a decent hospital. (wonder who paid!) None trustworthy here...
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Wow...
Safelife, sounds so interesting... Are you flying with local F/O?? Heard it is so hard to train the local (even) for ATR, so how do you fly the jet with local F/O?? ( you must NEED big insurance!) How does Big man treat you guys? Rumour is this Big man's airline is going to eat up all the other airlines.... Is he that powerful??
pinkflaps;
Yes I've been flying with locals. They came from F.28 or ATR so they had some experience, but of course the F100 is a challenge for them.
But then again the Fokker is the easiest a/c to fly in this size; I wonder how they would have performed in a 737 or a MD.
Thus me thinks a 767 (that's what they're trying to get) would need full expat crews for quite a while. (767, routes to russia, rings a bell doesn't it!)
We got treated quite well, no close contact with anyone though. Got a nice goodbye party in big man's house (impressive!).
Yes good question about the fate of the other operators, so far they're just coexisting in stable way. For a passenger the Fokker would be the better choice of course, but I takes some time for agencies and tour operators to make the switch. In the long term there aren't that many seats needed on the domestic routes I reckon. But the ATR is far more suitable for most destinations within, I guess the F100 will continue to serve the main ones only.
Right now they concentrate on starting international flights, trying to replace MAI on the BKK route. Been investigating with their owners, I heard.
But so far I think the international AOC is the problem, if they can't get one by buying MAI they will have to go the long way to earn one themself. This is one of the things even close ties with the government can't fix.
Yes I've been flying with locals. They came from F.28 or ATR so they had some experience, but of course the F100 is a challenge for them.
But then again the Fokker is the easiest a/c to fly in this size; I wonder how they would have performed in a 737 or a MD.
Thus me thinks a 767 (that's what they're trying to get) would need full expat crews for quite a while. (767, routes to russia, rings a bell doesn't it!)
We got treated quite well, no close contact with anyone though. Got a nice goodbye party in big man's house (impressive!).
Yes good question about the fate of the other operators, so far they're just coexisting in stable way. For a passenger the Fokker would be the better choice of course, but I takes some time for agencies and tour operators to make the switch. In the long term there aren't that many seats needed on the domestic routes I reckon. But the ATR is far more suitable for most destinations within, I guess the F100 will continue to serve the main ones only.
Right now they concentrate on starting international flights, trying to replace MAI on the BKK route. Been investigating with their owners, I heard.
But so far I think the international AOC is the problem, if they can't get one by buying MAI they will have to go the long way to earn one themself. This is one of the things even close ties with the government can't fix.
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cost cutting???
I heard one of the airline with yellow and purple now doing cost cutting and operating short crew. With one aircraft on the ground and operating with only 2, their loadings a still less than half?!
Is anyones guess who will be the first to fall... As for tony are you in Yangon yet? ??
Oh, I heard Myanmar internet server was down for a week, and wonder why.... Have you seen the news lately regarding a jailed lady leader??
Is anyones guess who will be the first to fall... As for tony are you in Yangon yet? ??
Oh, I heard Myanmar internet server was down for a week, and wonder why.... Have you seen the news lately regarding a jailed lady leader??
My personat bet would be Yangon Airways to be the first to go bust. But I have no recent information anymore.
The internet connection problem was due to a failure of the fibre optical link to Singapore, the only connection to the outside world.
Another inside information: Try GTalk, the google mail messenger. Was working even trough the last days!
The internet connection problem was due to a failure of the fibre optical link to Singapore, the only connection to the outside world.
Another inside information: Try GTalk, the google mail messenger. Was working even trough the last days!
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I have decided "not to go". I had a long chat with Myanmar Consulate and basically confirmed what safelife wrote before. (regarding safety and general environment). Moreover, i wrote to asianatr asking quotation for the Type, but they did not even reply to me.......probably they do not need my money 
. The cheap flight ticket to Yangon is still available till end of June, but I believe that it will stay on the travel agency desk. I'm looking for a different destination.....
thank you all for your help and information given
tony
. The cheap flight ticket to Yangon is still available till end of June, but I believe that it will stay on the travel agency desk. I'm looking for a different destination.....thank you all for your help and information given
tony
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Good choice!
Tony, a wise choice not to come. If you had had an ATR rating, it would have been worth your while to visit. As I know for a fact that Air Mandalay are screaming for crew. But they just don't have the funds to train their own. Yet they say they don't want to take any more expats ,how they come up with this idea FXXXed if I know!!
Safelife, Not that I am a gambler, but I would bet you one thousand KYATS ( not $$) Air Mandalay is the first to go. " another one down, another one down, another one bites the dust" By freddy mercury.
Safelife, Not that I am a gambler, but I would bet you one thousand KYATS ( not $$) Air Mandalay is the first to go. " another one down, another one down, another one bites the dust" By freddy mercury.