SIA CARGO

[Round D. Globe]

142k?? Yikes!

Bananasx2

Good to see you're back up on the board. I am just as confused as Readufive. please, a little clarification.

By the way, Here's a thought.. let say you have an A345 type but SIA starts you in the 74F, Are you still required
to be bonded?

Thanks
RDG

[millerscourt]

What you are already type rated on say A345 makes no difference if you join on the B744. Bond and Bank Guarantee applies. To avoid any confusion the Bank Guarantee forms part of the total Bond. This guarantee has either to be in cash when you arrive or as a Bank Guarantee by a branch in Singapore. The Bond is the Grand Total you are signed up to repaying SQ should you leave earlier than the 5 years of being on the line. It is Pro- Rata if you leave earlier. After 5 years on the line the Bank Guarantee is cancelled and you get your money back.

[readufive]

millerscourt....ok....but how much is it? 142k sgd...sounds pretty steep!

Please elaborate a bit more(for us dummies)

[Fogrunner]

You put S$56000 into a Singapore bank that is about $35000 (US). The bond is total of $142k if you should leave early, which includes the 56000 as a guarantee. Singapore is very adept at pursing people who violate the terms of their contract as they should be.
Go to the interview and ask them about the bond/guarantee.
S$142k = $86000 USD

Originally Posted by millerscourt

It is simpler to bring the money with you and go to the DBS Bank at Parkway who are familiar with the SQ "Bondage" scheme and deposit in a deposit account paying peanuts interest. DBS will charge you around SGD 1600 for this privilege!
You do not have to bring the money if for example you can get a Bank to guarantee the payment to SQ ( say against the value of your house) but the big catch is that this Bank must have a branch in Singapore. You have 20 days on arrival at SQ to come up with this as otherwise you are off the ground course!!!

There is a good search function on this site where this info has been covered in the past.

[readufive]

Fogrunner....many thanks for the input. So...as I understand it...you bring
56k sgd yourself..and thats it. IF you violate the contract...you pay an amount of 142k sgd......ok....I think its sinking in now....

[Fogrunner]

Originally Posted by readufive

Fogrunner....many thanks for the input. So...as I understand it...you bring
56k sgd yourself..and thats it. IF you violate the contract...you pay an amount of 142k sgd......ok....I think its sinking in now....

I don't work at Singapore, just info I have managed to glean from this website.

Originally Posted by millerscourt

To avoid any confusion the Bank Guarantee forms part of the total Bond. This guarantee has either to be in cash when you arrive or as a Bank Guarantee by a branch in Singapore. The Bond is the Grand Total you are signed up to repaying SQ should you leave earlier than the 5 years of being on the line. It is Pro- Rata if you leave earlier. After 5 years on the line the Bank Guarantee is cancelled and you get your money back.

If you do a detailed search there is a guy called Gladiator. He skipped out on his bond. Singapore chased him down to the US ( I think he is at Alaska now) and sued him in US court. He gives a detailed account of his dealings with SIA from his point of view.
People can debate all they want about the bond/guarantee. This is the way SIA does it. To me, if you sign an agreement it is your word. I guess I am an old fashioned guy. You buy a house you sign the paperwork. If you don't pay the bank note they take the house. What's the difference. You complete the contract you get the money back.

[readufive]

Fogrunner....I couldnŽt agree with you more. Its not like you donŽt know, whats in the contract.....

Well...I guess I will have to ask them about the details at the interview...

[Round D. Globe]

Readufive

Please post whatever you can about the interview. I know yours is sometime next month and they have yet to contact me, but I (and I'm sure others) would like to know. Meanwhile I'm checking the sofa cushions and the kids piggy banks to scrap up the 56k. YIKES!

RDG

[fishbad]

bond

Check your contract carefully.There is not only 56ks$.Total is 140ks$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a **** !!!!!!!I 've found out about this when I got the contract to sign up .It was too late to get back.There is a really trap .

[BANANASBANANAS]

Strange!

Were you not sent a sample contract with all the interview paperwork?

[ffodekcuf]

SIA Cargo Interview

Take a pile of questions that are relevant to you and your situation, they are very good at not telling all you all there is you need to know in order to make an informed decision, before you sign your life away!!!

There is however no stress in the interview, and the whole process is very friendly and relaxed, just glean all the gen you can!

[ffodekcuf]

Contract and Bond

To BananasBananas,

No you are only sent an expurgated version of the contract before you arrive to sign on etc, and it is only then that you realise just how much you are letting yourself in for, and for many people it is too late and you are trapped!

[BANANASBANANAS]

Even Stranger

I was sent full details of the bonding arrangement prior to interview. I obviously cant speak for other people but I was also asked at interview how soon I could join and I replied that it would be 3 months after I resigned from my current job and I wasn't going to resign until I had received a formal offer of employment from SIA Cargo, complete with full bonding arrangements.

I received the formal offer (with all the bonding details confirmed) within 1 week of interview. Only then did I resign from my then current employer.

It does seem strange that other people were treated differently.

[airwaya457]

Could someone please help with the following?
Do you get days off in a row?
Can you request long trips so as to get 4 or 5 days off in a row?
Is there any kind of bidding system?
Is it possible to commute to some where 6 hours away?

[serangga]

Hey guys, the cash bond is a bit steep. But then again, it is in a form of a bank fixed deposit ( or time deposit as some of you may call it ) in a Singapore bank, but signed to the company as a trust. The time deposit will still pay you interest. ( Yes SIA does not keep all the cash! ). The rest of it is in a form of a "pledge" to re-imburse the company for the training and the rating that you get.
The conditions for the confiscation of the cash bond and subsequent payback of the rest is ( the payback amount reduces each year )dependant on the conditions of you leaving the company eg: Dismissal for disciplinary reasons, Falsification of past flying experience (parker pen hours) or gross incompetance. Believe me, all these have happened before on some of the DEC who have applied to SIA.
If you complete the 3 year period, you get all your initial cash bond plus interest and you are scott free, but the contract they offer you is for an initial 5 years so you have to think if you want to hang around in this "police state" for another 2 years.
Off days are not a problem, with the cargo crew operating patterns being 8 days average and according to the current union agreement, should get you 4 days off. Comuting ANYWHERE is another matter. The staff travel pricing absolutely sucks and will burn a hole in your pocket really fast because of the taxes and surcharges that you have to pay.
In short, if you are willing to eat humble pie and fly with an outfit that does NOT fly clapped out aeroplanes with dodgy maintainence, then SIA Cargo is pretty decent. There are a lot worse places to be. (Being able to stomach the Singapore system is all together another matter!)
But be warned, this company has a LOT of high priced lawyers on retainer. You can try to fight them, but then the costs (in REAL money to you!) will be HIGH.

You got to remember, at the end of the day, these guys run a business. They certainly DO want to recover some of the training investment in you, and the way do this if by asking you for your services for which you are paid. ( Isn't this the same everywhere else? )

Happy flying.

[readufive]

2xbananas......how long before your interview did you receive your contract. I have not received anything yet. The interview is in late april.
Overall.....I guess your opinion of SIA cargo is positive....right? There are ofcourse proŽs and conŽs with all jobs. Are you on local contract or expat-contract? Are there major differnces? It would be cool if you could write a bit more about your experiences.

Regarding the bond.....I must admit I am still a bit confused....."fishbad"
talks about traps and stuff 56k , 140k ......please elaborate. I have no problems with (decent) bonds......it is after all YOUrself, who eventually signs, iŽnŽit. All companys have them in one form or another......

[faheel]

the bond for non type rated people is not 3 years it is 5years and 5 months and unless you are planning to do a runner at some stage then it really is not an issue.
You do not have to put up any money but you do need a bank guarantee for 40 odd thousand sin dollars which can (as is my case) be written against an asset I have back home.
What you will need is to pay the bank who writes it some dough usually abt $1500 to $2000
One last thing, the bank must have an office in Singapore if you go down that road.

[Fogrunner]

Originally Posted by readufive

2xbananas......how long before your interview did you receive your contract. I have not received anything yet. The interview is in late april.
Overall.....I guess your opinion of SIA cargo is positive....right? There are ofcourse pro´s and con´s with all jobs. Are you on local contract or expat-contract? Are there major differnces? It would be cool if you could write a bit more about your experiences.
Regarding the bond.....I must admit I am still a bit confused....."fishbad"
talks about traps and stuff 56k , 140k ......please elaborate. I have no problems with (decent) bonds......it is after all YOUrself, who eventually signs, i´n´it. All companys have them in one form or another......

I wouldn't put too much stock in what "fishbad" has to say. His statements seem confused and convoluted. He also ignores PMs.

I would look to people such as millerscourt, phil squares, BANANASBANANAS, 4pw to mention only a few.
They have a more balanced and understandable approach.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Originally Posted by readufive

2xbananas......how long before your interview did you receive your contract. I have not received anything yet. The interview is in late april.
Overall.....I guess your opinion of SIA cargo is positive....right? There are ofcourse pro´s and con´s with all jobs. Are you on local contract or expat-contract? Are there major differnces? It would be cool if you could write a bit more about your experiences.

Regarding the bond.....I must admit I am still a bit confused....."fishbad"
talks about traps and stuff 56k , 140k ......please elaborate. I have no problems with (decent) bonds......it is after all YOUrself, who eventually signs, i´n´it. All companys have them in one form or another......

I will try to answer the questions you ask but please remember that I am only speaking of my own experiences and giving my own opinions.

I received a copy of a "typical contract" about a week before the interview. The interview was arranged at fairly short notice and the time scale was approx as follows:

Early Mar 2005, Emailed my app form to SIA Cargo.
2 days later, return email inviting me for interview in about 2 weeks time. I replied immediately, accepting the interview. Immediate reply from SIA saying that interview was confirmed and letter confirming interview, sample contract and bond details would be posted that day. SIA pay for hotac but you pay for the airfare.

1 week later, letter containing all above info was received.
Another week later I attended interview and was told at the end of the sim that I had been successful subject to medical (done the next day) and satisfactory references. This was confirmed by email in a couple of days and I was advised that a hard copy containing "everything" was in the post.

1 week - 10 days later I received the hard copy (signed) formal offer of employment, contract, bonding details etc, conditional only on receiving satisfactory references from my current employer which I arranged and faxed through the same day. That was also the day I resigned.

3 months later I started work with SIA Cargo.

I have just completed my log book for March 2006 and I flew almost 58 hours and my only positioning sector was about 4 hours in first class from LAX to ORD. I will be back in SIN tomorrow and have 6 days OFF before starting 14 days holiday.

I am on an expat contract which provides for housing allowance and childrens education (up to age 18) if your children go to a Singapore school. Nil allowance for schools outside Singapore.

Bonding? OK I will try to explain it again using very small words.

The bond is Sing$142k and it decreases linearly over 5 years but the 5 years begins only AFTER you finish your conversion (and maybe probation - I will have to check).

Of that 142K you have to front up 56k when you join SIA Cargo. That 56K is held as a bank guarantee for the 5 years. If after 5 years you havent scarpered you get your 56k back + any interest accrued. Be aware that the banks charge for providing this service and the 5 years of charges are all paid at the beginning (in case you scarper - banks aint daft) so the 56k will probably cost you about 60k in all.

If you wish to commute and dont have any ID90 deals that you can hang onto from your previous employer it can be expensive as we only get ID75 and in most cases you can do better in a travel agents - and get a firm seat. We also only get 32 days annual leave but rostering appear to be very understanding and helpful and I have 22 days holiday in April for only 14 days of annual leave entitlement.

The housing allowance is adequate but you might have to top it up just a bit. I am told that the education allowance knocks a big hole in the school bills but doesn't cover them completely - depending on school etc.

The aeroplanes are great. The routes are great (provided you like long haul and up to 16 days away followed by 6-7 days Off) and the guys I have flown with have all been excellent. Fleet Office appears to be very user friendly as well.

Its not perfect, but it is everything it advertised itself to be and I have had no nasty surprises at all. Hope that helps.

[remlap]

Bananas,

Phil Squares has been kind enough to give me some information, which is pretty much in line with what you have said.

My question is this: I don't have a problem with relocating and living in SIA. However, I prefer to fly turns, three days, shorter type of flying. Looking at some of the 12 day and 9 day trips, I am sure I wouldn't know what time zone I was in. Is there any possibility of shorter duration trips? Also, could you give me a brief description of the bidding software set up?

Thanks,

Remlap