Malayan Airways: "For Half the Pay"
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Malayan Airways: "For Half the Pay"
Way back in the 1960s Malayan Airways operated a daily DC3 service from Singapore to Sandakan with stops at Kuching, Sibu, Labuan and Jesselton. The crew night stopped Sandakan and next day flew the same route back to Singapore. It was an interesting and enjoyable two days with a credit of about 17 hours flying. The sector from Jesselton to Sandakan was something special as it was only flown direct if the tops of the en-route mountains could clearly be seen. If they were obscured then it was necessary to go north to Kudat (to avoid Mt. Kinabalu) and from Kudat fly down the eastern shoreline to Sandakan. We often flew along the beaches at 1000' or less and only a poet could describe the beauty of this route. Even on wet cloudy days there was a touch of magic in the DC3 as it purred along effortlessly at 130 kts over stetches of white sand, beautiful blue green water, shoals of coral, beached fishing craft, palm trees, kampongs and waving children. After Kudat with rain restricting visibility it was essential to pay close attention to what lay ahead and it was good to know that Sandakan tower was always ready to send up a flare to help find the airport. The pink glow of a red flare as seen through water streaming off the windscreen was always reassuring and it avoided the necessity of climbing to lowest safe and flying the NDB letdown. It was on one of these scenic flights as F/O that the captain laughingly said to me: "I'd do this for half the pay but don't tell anyone. " My reply "So would I. "
That's how it was in those days, the pleasure of flying came first and all else seemed to come second.
Prince of Dzun
That's how it was in those days, the pleasure of flying came first and all else seemed to come second.
Prince of Dzun
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Half the pay?? ..... ur not alone....
Hey there Prince,
I've gotta agree with you there. Nowadays, the no1 priority for young pilots is MONEY, followed by the type of aircraft they fly (hehe). It quite sad to see this happening as alot of them are in the airline cadet pilot programs. Correct me if im wrong, but there are alot of other quality (by airline standards) guys and a gals who would, given the chance fly for half the pay of these guys, but unfortunately their chances of being accepted by these airline cadet program are almost o% because their father is not a politician or bigshot in the airline. Again, correct me if im wrong.
I-Fly-River
I've gotta agree with you there. Nowadays, the no1 priority for young pilots is MONEY, followed by the type of aircraft they fly (hehe). It quite sad to see this happening as alot of them are in the airline cadet pilot programs. Correct me if im wrong, but there are alot of other quality (by airline standards) guys and a gals who would, given the chance fly for half the pay of these guys, but unfortunately their chances of being accepted by these airline cadet program are almost o% because their father is not a politician or bigshot in the airline. Again, correct me if im wrong.
I-Fly-River
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I-Fly-River:
You are perfectly correct in your assessment of the wrong types who get into airline flying. It's sad that the right types never have the connections but it's easy to tell who should be there. They are good at it.
k-----II:
Try reading between the lines and you will see I am trying to say in the nicest possible way that the "Red Guards" of SIA should stop making themselves unhappy and count their blessings.
Maxy101:
Would you rather by flying 20 days per month with everyday different or would you rather be driving a taxi for 30 days a month with everyday the same.
Prince of Dzun
You are perfectly correct in your assessment of the wrong types who get into airline flying. It's sad that the right types never have the connections but it's easy to tell who should be there. They are good at it.
k-----II:
Try reading between the lines and you will see I am trying to say in the nicest possible way that the "Red Guards" of SIA should stop making themselves unhappy and count their blessings.
Maxy101:
Would you rather by flying 20 days per month with everyday different or would you rather be driving a taxi for 30 days a month with everyday the same.
Prince of Dzun
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mind if i cut into this dance
i would rather drive the f**king taxi and draw the pay of a pilot. how's that?
job satisfaction is one thing, but getting denied is another. if you two are as senior as you sound, you are on easy street.
does not matter if you are a lion or a tiger, you guys have got it made. i have gone to enough weddings to have met you lot.
how can you say the younger gen only care about money? isn't money one of the criterion of a professional?
what's wrong with a lust for the lifestyle of the guy who is training him? it is positive motivation! you actually want to be successful so that you can live below your seniors? does that make sense??
drink your wine and eat your cheese, but spare us the 'i would fly for free, cuz' it is payment enough' crap.
oh btw, i am not one of the red guards in sia, but i would be proud to be a friend to any one of them.
job satisfaction is one thing, but getting denied is another. if you two are as senior as you sound, you are on easy street.
does not matter if you are a lion or a tiger, you guys have got it made. i have gone to enough weddings to have met you lot.
how can you say the younger gen only care about money? isn't money one of the criterion of a professional?
what's wrong with a lust for the lifestyle of the guy who is training him? it is positive motivation! you actually want to be successful so that you can live below your seniors? does that make sense??
drink your wine and eat your cheese, but spare us the 'i would fly for free, cuz' it is payment enough' crap.
oh btw, i am not one of the red guards in sia, but i would be proud to be a friend to any one of them.
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Prince of Dzun,
We still do the Jesselton (now known as Kota Kinabalu) Sandakan flight these days. And we still follow the Kudat route (now known as W420) in the afternoon when we can only see red returns on the EHSI for area covering Mount Kinabalu. On one of the flights early last year, a B737 hit a tunderstorm cell while using the route and one of the crew at the back suffered a fractured leg. We treat this route with utmost respect due to the sudden build up of CBs in the afternoon (as I believe you all did back then).
Of course nowadays things are much better in terms of safety. Kinabalu is now equipped with area and terminal radar. Sandakan has a 6900ft runway equipped with ILS for rway 08 and the aircraft that we fly today of course are much better equipped with powerful turbofan engines which makes climbing to 25000 ft a breeze for BKI-SDK sector.
These days we are unable to have a good look at the scenery along the way but at 25000 ft if the weather permits, we have a wonderful view of Mount Kinabalu. And on the way back from Sandakan, on descent for landing runway 20 Kinabalu, we are able to have a good look at the small villages at the foot of Mount Kinabalu (beautiful from the air, cant imagine how it feels to be there). As we get nearer to the runway, we are able to see the two Universities (UiTM & Universiti Malaysia Sabah which is one of the most beautiful universities in Asia) and a few minutes before landing we are able to see the coast with Yayasan Sabah standing proud by the sea.
Would I do it for half the pay? In these days of material needs goes hand in hand with better quality of life, I would say our generation have a lot to differ in terms of consideration in comparison with your generation. But we do enjoy the job just the same...
We still do the Jesselton (now known as Kota Kinabalu) Sandakan flight these days. And we still follow the Kudat route (now known as W420) in the afternoon when we can only see red returns on the EHSI for area covering Mount Kinabalu. On one of the flights early last year, a B737 hit a tunderstorm cell while using the route and one of the crew at the back suffered a fractured leg. We treat this route with utmost respect due to the sudden build up of CBs in the afternoon (as I believe you all did back then).
Of course nowadays things are much better in terms of safety. Kinabalu is now equipped with area and terminal radar. Sandakan has a 6900ft runway equipped with ILS for rway 08 and the aircraft that we fly today of course are much better equipped with powerful turbofan engines which makes climbing to 25000 ft a breeze for BKI-SDK sector.
These days we are unable to have a good look at the scenery along the way but at 25000 ft if the weather permits, we have a wonderful view of Mount Kinabalu. And on the way back from Sandakan, on descent for landing runway 20 Kinabalu, we are able to have a good look at the small villages at the foot of Mount Kinabalu (beautiful from the air, cant imagine how it feels to be there). As we get nearer to the runway, we are able to see the two Universities (UiTM & Universiti Malaysia Sabah which is one of the most beautiful universities in Asia) and a few minutes before landing we are able to see the coast with Yayasan Sabah standing proud by the sea.
Would I do it for half the pay? In these days of material needs goes hand in hand with better quality of life, I would say our generation have a lot to differ in terms of consideration in comparison with your generation. But we do enjoy the job just the same...
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Prince of Dzun,
I would like to suggest that you put your money where your mouth is. Give half of your pay from now on to a recognised charity. If you have already retired just give half of the last ten year's pay before you retired to a charity. This is not asking too much from you. If you cannot do that then you do not qualify to preach.
People are judged from their walk, not from their talk.
I would like to suggest that you put your money where your mouth is. Give half of your pay from now on to a recognised charity. If you have already retired just give half of the last ten year's pay before you retired to a charity. This is not asking too much from you. If you cannot do that then you do not qualify to preach.
People are judged from their walk, not from their talk.
PoDz, didn`t know a stewardess called Lettie ,did you?
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C154:
Thanks for writing such an eloquent description of the Jesselton (as I knew it) Sandakan route. I enjoyed learning to know how you do it these days. I can't imagine an ILS at Sandakan. The airfield I remember was made of crushed coral and sand and when it was wet one could 3 point the DC3 as if landing on a feather bed. It was even better than landing on grass. I know those halcyon days of the DC3 are gone forever but it was that famous French aviator and poet Antoine De- St. Exupery (who had many wise things to say about aviation and pilots) who said: " memories are invisible wealth." He was not wrong and one day you will agree with him because you will remember what you are doing now and you will have forgotten how much you are being paid to do it. Trust me, I have thirty five years of doing it and I know. Money is not everything!!
Regards,
Prince of Dzun
southernmtn:
I will answer you tomorrow and do my best to straighten you out.
Sycamore:
I can recall the names of every DC3 hostess I flew with in 1965. If you so wish I can put them up here (both first and second names). Unfortunately, there is no Lettie.
Prince of Dzun
Thanks for writing such an eloquent description of the Jesselton (as I knew it) Sandakan route. I enjoyed learning to know how you do it these days. I can't imagine an ILS at Sandakan. The airfield I remember was made of crushed coral and sand and when it was wet one could 3 point the DC3 as if landing on a feather bed. It was even better than landing on grass. I know those halcyon days of the DC3 are gone forever but it was that famous French aviator and poet Antoine De- St. Exupery (who had many wise things to say about aviation and pilots) who said: " memories are invisible wealth." He was not wrong and one day you will agree with him because you will remember what you are doing now and you will have forgotten how much you are being paid to do it. Trust me, I have thirty five years of doing it and I know. Money is not everything!!
Regards,
Prince of Dzun
southernmtn:
I will answer you tomorrow and do my best to straighten you out.
Sycamore:
I can recall the names of every DC3 hostess I flew with in 1965. If you so wish I can put them up here (both first and second names). Unfortunately, there is no Lettie.
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p of dzun-keep the old memories coming back. like to hear more of the borneo tales . don't be put off by the antics of some. lets hear some stories and leave the industrial side out-there are plenty of threads for that!
cheers
tebuan
cheers
tebuan
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b777pilot:
I actually agree with some of things you say but unfortunately you seem to be missing the most important part of the equation which is "I want to do it". Four bars and four power levers come later. Rather like a reward!!
Southernmtn:
What you suggest I should do is really not very sensible but I understand what you are saying. I don't think we will ever agree because had I been paid more for what I did then I would have gladly taken the extra. Conversely had I been paid less for what I did then I would have taken that too. I'd like you to read two quotations from Antoine de Saint Exupery which you may find enlightening.
1. "Flying constitutes the dignity of a craft in that it creates a fellowship, binds men together and fashions for them a common language."
2. "Flying is a classless society and it raises men from mediocrity. "
These words of wisdom have the ability to lift your spirits whenever the going gets tough so perhaps you may want to commit them to memory.
tebuan:
Unfortunately very little has been recorded about Malayan Airways and Borneo Airays and the only written words that I know of are contained in Captain Colin King's autobiography entitled " Luck is No Accident" which is the story of his life as a pilot in the Korean War and as an airline pilot. There is an interesting chapter on Malayan Airways that deals with the day to day flying of the DC3. If you wish to know how to obtain this book then let me know, it costs about $30 US direct from the author. Regards to all,
Prince of Dzun
I actually agree with some of things you say but unfortunately you seem to be missing the most important part of the equation which is "I want to do it". Four bars and four power levers come later. Rather like a reward!!
Southernmtn:
What you suggest I should do is really not very sensible but I understand what you are saying. I don't think we will ever agree because had I been paid more for what I did then I would have gladly taken the extra. Conversely had I been paid less for what I did then I would have taken that too. I'd like you to read two quotations from Antoine de Saint Exupery which you may find enlightening.
1. "Flying constitutes the dignity of a craft in that it creates a fellowship, binds men together and fashions for them a common language."
2. "Flying is a classless society and it raises men from mediocrity. "
These words of wisdom have the ability to lift your spirits whenever the going gets tough so perhaps you may want to commit them to memory.
tebuan:
Unfortunately very little has been recorded about Malayan Airways and Borneo Airays and the only written words that I know of are contained in Captain Colin King's autobiography entitled " Luck is No Accident" which is the story of his life as a pilot in the Korean War and as an airline pilot. There is an interesting chapter on Malayan Airways that deals with the day to day flying of the DC3. If you wish to know how to obtain this book then let me know, it costs about $30 US direct from the author. Regards to all,
Prince of Dzun
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pardon the crocodile tears
you wouldn't be a harley rider would you by any chance?
ok, you took all of 35 years to find out that you were over-paid at your job? goodness!?!
and during all those years you never, never, ever argued, debated, fought for higher pay, better working conditions, more benefits??
wow! what a guy?
i presume you were made instructor. and you frown upon your trainees and hope they would have a std of living less than yours? oh man.........
please tell me you made it to management??
i think tebuan is right, stick to sharing your experience of your MAL/MSA/MAS?/SIA? days. give the rest of us working stiffs a break from management crap. i have enuff of it in my box, thank you very much.
ok, you took all of 35 years to find out that you were over-paid at your job? goodness!?!
and during all those years you never, never, ever argued, debated, fought for higher pay, better working conditions, more benefits??
wow! what a guy?
i presume you were made instructor. and you frown upon your trainees and hope they would have a std of living less than yours? oh man.........
please tell me you made it to management??
i think tebuan is right, stick to sharing your experience of your MAL/MSA/MAS?/SIA? days. give the rest of us working stiffs a break from management crap. i have enuff of it in my box, thank you very much.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"We often flew along the beaches at 1000' or less 
..........After Kudat with rain restricting visibility it was essential to pay close attention to what lay ahead 
and it was good to know that Sandakan tower was always ready to send up a flare to help find the airport. 
The pink glow of a red flare as seen through water streaming off the windscreen was always reassuring and it avoided the necessity of climbing to lowest safe and flying the NDB letdown." 
What sort of a cowboy operation was this??!!
You'd last all of 1 sector in today's aviation world, before you had your licence pulled, doing stunts like that.
It's a much different world today, old timer.
"I can recall the names of every DC3 hostess I flew with in 1965."....but can't remember what you did an hour ago?
..........After Kudat with rain restricting visibility it was essential to pay close attention to what lay ahead and it was good to know that Sandakan tower was always ready to send up a flare to help find the airport. The pink glow of a red flare as seen through water streaming off the windscreen was always reassuring and it avoided the necessity of climbing to lowest safe and flying the NDB letdown." What sort of a cowboy operation was this??!!
You'd last all of 1 sector in today's aviation world, before you had your licence pulled, doing stunts like that.
It's a much different world today, old timer.
"I can recall the names of every DC3 hostess I flew with in 1965."....but can't remember what you did an hour ago?
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b777 pilot I am inclined to agree with your sentiments on this one.
There are far too many Pilots around these days who I think have to pinch themselves every morning cos they just cannot believe that they are sitting in a big shiny jet, travelling around the world seeing places they could never afford to visit and staying in Hotels they could only dream of staying in and who because of this are prepared to do the job for "nothing" almost.
Their lack of their professional worth sickens me.
There are far too many Pilots around these days who I think have to pinch themselves every morning cos they just cannot believe that they are sitting in a big shiny jet, travelling around the world seeing places they could never afford to visit and staying in Hotels they could only dream of staying in and who because of this are prepared to do the job for "nothing" almost.
Their lack of their professional worth sickens me.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
A sign of the times, millerscourt??
Pilots finding themselves suddenly IN a position that they thought they would have to wait for, much longer!!
The lack of professionalism is due to their lack of experience - something that will reflect in damages to aircraft & pax in the medium term.
And will cost a few, their careers.
Pilots finding themselves suddenly IN a position that they thought they would have to wait for, much longer!!
The lack of professionalism is due to their lack of experience - something that will reflect in damages to aircraft & pax in the medium term.
And will cost a few, their careers.
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Kapitan M.
Your describing the story told by the Prince as a "cowboy operation" clearly illustrates the you have no knowledge of the history of aviation, or more probably no interest.
You are quite correct in your statement that today's regulators would not allow such operations, however, had not the pioneers. the Prince among them, not achieved what they did, with the aircraft and facilities available to them, you would not be flying in your shiny glass cockpit today.
Your describing the story told by the Prince as a "cowboy operation" clearly illustrates the you have no knowledge of the history of aviation, or more probably no interest.
You are quite correct in your statement that today's regulators would not allow such operations, however, had not the pioneers. the Prince among them, not achieved what they did, with the aircraft and facilities available to them, you would not be flying in your shiny glass cockpit today.
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Kaptain M:
I believe in the art of physiognomy and in your case I'm sure the bitterness you continually direct at others would be easy to see. This bitterness rebounds upon yourself and extracts a price that you are reminded of every time you look in a mirror. You have my sympathy.
To save you thumbing through a dictionary physiognomy means to judge a person's character from their face.
Millerscourt:
Your thoughts made me think of a proletariat who mentally upgraded himself to a bourgeoisie. Funny isn't it, how a few words can give you away.
Regards to you both,
Prince of Dzun
I believe in the art of physiognomy and in your case I'm sure the bitterness you continually direct at others would be easy to see. This bitterness rebounds upon yourself and extracts a price that you are reminded of every time you look in a mirror. You have my sympathy.
To save you thumbing through a dictionary physiognomy means to judge a person's character from their face.
Millerscourt:
Your thoughts made me think of a proletariat who mentally upgraded himself to a bourgeoisie. Funny isn't it, how a few words can give you away.
Regards to you both,
Prince of Dzun
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can you explain to me how in the f***ing hell did you wiggle your way out of a perfectly good debate and ended up teaching us your version of english?
you know what?
i think you are a FAKE! i don't think you have even been nearer than 50 ft of an aircraft.
i think your drinking chums told you that story. that you re-hash a million times to make yourself feel like a pilot. its no wonder you say you would do it for half the pay.
YOU WERE NOT DRAWING IT, IN THE FIRST PLACE!!
okay, coming back to the original argument. let's assume you have a family.
would your household be as please if you were willing to work for half of what they wear, eat, spend, go on holiday? no doubt to a nearer destination? how about the two fancy cars that your sons are driving?
go ahead ask them? i can almost hear the laughter from this side of the screen.
i can hear you know telling your chidren to go to the best med school, graduate and work for pittance. job satisfaction is good enough.
as kaptin M and millerscourt put it, you do not know the meaning of the word.
i have a few years short of your claimed experience, but i have no respect for ppl who run down others when they have had their fill of the good old days.
oh yeah, one other thing, i don't think ppl like you have contributed any to commercial aviation-as one other would have us believe-the industry calls them profesionals!!
if, if you had your way, we would still be bashing about the bush looking for sea-shells to land this piece of aluminium.
come on, it is so.......your post reeks of it!!
assuming you are a pilot of course!
you know what?
i think you are a FAKE! i don't think you have even been nearer than 50 ft of an aircraft.
i think your drinking chums told you that story. that you re-hash a million times to make yourself feel like a pilot. its no wonder you say you would do it for half the pay.
YOU WERE NOT DRAWING IT, IN THE FIRST PLACE!!
okay, coming back to the original argument. let's assume you have a family.
would your household be as please if you were willing to work for half of what they wear, eat, spend, go on holiday? no doubt to a nearer destination? how about the two fancy cars that your sons are driving?
go ahead ask them? i can almost hear the laughter from this side of the screen.
i can hear you know telling your chidren to go to the best med school, graduate and work for pittance. job satisfaction is good enough.
as kaptin M and millerscourt put it, you do not know the meaning of the word.
i have a few years short of your claimed experience, but i have no respect for ppl who run down others when they have had their fill of the good old days.
oh yeah, one other thing, i don't think ppl like you have contributed any to commercial aviation-as one other would have us believe-the industry calls them profesionals!!
if, if you had your way, we would still be bashing about the bush looking for sea-shells to land this piece of aluminium.
come on, it is so.......your post reeks of it!!
assuming you are a pilot of course!