SIA Cargo Hiring!!!! (merged)
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I've posted a few more details in the other thread regarding benefits.
You will work to the AOC not the CA to a maximum of 100 hours a month. The overseas based Captains work to this limit and reach it on a regular basis so expect SIA Cargo to be no different.
WILLIE......if you are 50 now by present SIA rules you will not be elligible for a command for 5 years. Another SIA rule also states that at 55 or above a command will not be offered.
You will work to the AOC not the CA to a maximum of 100 hours a month. The overseas based Captains work to this limit and reach it on a regular basis so expect SIA Cargo to be no different.
WILLIE......if you are 50 now by present SIA rules you will not be elligible for a command for 5 years. Another SIA rule also states that at 55 or above a command will not be offered.
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On the “singapore airlines recruiting” thread, EasyGo-Lucky? presents very accurate information re: captain salaries on the “cargo contract”.
Readers who may be considering a move to this SE Asian pasture may care to further consider that it is the continued policy of the Singapore Government (though mutely stated) to progressively weaken the currency in order to remain wage and cost competitive with the likes of China, India, Thailand et al. Some in Singapore would take issue with the fundamental soundness of this genius strategy and its potentially catastrophic deflationary effect on the Singapore economy, but there is hereabouts, of course, no mechanism to air dissent or broadcast alternatives.
As an example, when first I arrived on this brown pasture, the Sing $ stood at 2.23 to the £ Sterling. The ratio is now 2.90, falling daily and will quickly pass the psychological ratio of 3.00. So prospective captains to this cargo backwater may like to do their sums in respect of any foreign currency remittances which they may be obliged to make in the years ahead and come to an appropriate judgment as to their future course of action.
Similarly, the much vaunted B747-400 has become very much yesterday’s airplane as evidenced by the accelerating SQ disposal programme and the plethora of locals jumping to the B777 fleet.
There is a definite sniff in the air here of the B777-200/300 and possibly 300ER being the B747 replacement on the slightly thinner 747 routes and the coming A380 revolutionizing fares and services on the major trunks.
It could, therefore, be an idea to review any career strategy you may hold, prior to entering an exceptionally onerous bond and accepting a remarkably austere benefit package, to fly a distinctly dated airplane of declining passenger utility, in the cargo section of our industry.
Readers who may be considering a move to this SE Asian pasture may care to further consider that it is the continued policy of the Singapore Government (though mutely stated) to progressively weaken the currency in order to remain wage and cost competitive with the likes of China, India, Thailand et al. Some in Singapore would take issue with the fundamental soundness of this genius strategy and its potentially catastrophic deflationary effect on the Singapore economy, but there is hereabouts, of course, no mechanism to air dissent or broadcast alternatives.
As an example, when first I arrived on this brown pasture, the Sing $ stood at 2.23 to the £ Sterling. The ratio is now 2.90, falling daily and will quickly pass the psychological ratio of 3.00. So prospective captains to this cargo backwater may like to do their sums in respect of any foreign currency remittances which they may be obliged to make in the years ahead and come to an appropriate judgment as to their future course of action.
Similarly, the much vaunted B747-400 has become very much yesterday’s airplane as evidenced by the accelerating SQ disposal programme and the plethora of locals jumping to the B777 fleet.
There is a definite sniff in the air here of the B777-200/300 and possibly 300ER being the B747 replacement on the slightly thinner 747 routes and the coming A380 revolutionizing fares and services on the major trunks.
It could, therefore, be an idea to review any career strategy you may hold, prior to entering an exceptionally onerous bond and accepting a remarkably austere benefit package, to fly a distinctly dated airplane of declining passenger utility, in the cargo section of our industry.
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happydriver
Not sure what figure Bob will come up with for RH seaters but the 45 SIA cadets currently being trained in Oz are all destined for SIA Cargo (they don't have a choice) and they will emerge as very junior pilots on such low salaries as to take the breath away (along with the 7 year bond they'll have to work off).
Happy propects huh?
Not sure what figure Bob will come up with for RH seaters but the 45 SIA cadets currently being trained in Oz are all destined for SIA Cargo (they don't have a choice) and they will emerge as very junior pilots on such low salaries as to take the breath away (along with the 7 year bond they'll have to work off).
Happy propects huh?
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SIA Cargo F/O Scale
Happy Driver
The info I have which is subject to change by SIA is for rated F/O's
only. My previous posting was for Capt's scale
F/O type rated scale S$4800 to 7200 per mth
Gratuity end of 3yrs S$36000
Hourly Flt pay
0-70hrs S$25.80
71-100hrs S$38.70
DH pay S$12.90
28 days leave
I don't know if F/O's are given the same monthly relocation as the capt's or not!
other conditions seem the same as capt's with the exception of duty travel seating
There is medical coverage and basically the same pass policy as capt's 1 FOC then subload benefits
Once again it's an individual's call........................
all above in Singapore dollars and bottom tax rate approx 16% in S'pore
The info I have which is subject to change by SIA is for rated F/O's
only. My previous posting was for Capt's scale
F/O type rated scale S$4800 to 7200 per mth
Gratuity end of 3yrs S$36000
Hourly Flt pay
0-70hrs S$25.80
71-100hrs S$38.70
DH pay S$12.90
28 days leave
I don't know if F/O's are given the same monthly relocation as the capt's or not!
other conditions seem the same as capt's with the exception of duty travel seating
There is medical coverage and basically the same pass policy as capt's 1 FOC then subload benefits
Once again it's an individual's call........................
all above in Singapore dollars and bottom tax rate approx 16% in S'pore
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why not?
come on guys, i think the 747 cargo or its variant has been around a looooooooooong time and will continue to do so. a licence with type endorsement should be good for the next 15 years at least. well maybe not with SQ.
yes, the pay is low compared to the mother company but where else in the world do you get a rating without climbing the rungs of seniority?
BUT if you are type rated, i would really like to know why you signed on.
yes, the pay is low compared to the mother company but where else in the world do you get a rating without climbing the rungs of seniority?
BUT if you are type rated, i would really like to know why you signed on.
And the mother company pay is pretty bad at that - for the time being.
b777diver, your post is exactly what I said earlier in terms of if someone really wants to put a 747-400 on his licence ( I reffered to it as the "old banger") is not unhappy about the terms of employment, can do his 5 and a bit years then ****** off to better places, then SIA frieghter is the way to go.
But hopefully not many out there will take the companies "generous" offer to "join the team" and they will be obliged to review the contract.
b777diver, your post is exactly what I said earlier in terms of if someone really wants to put a 747-400 on his licence ( I reffered to it as the "old banger") is not unhappy about the terms of employment, can do his 5 and a bit years then ****** off to better places, then SIA frieghter is the way to go.
But hopefully not many out there will take the companies "generous" offer to "join the team" and they will be obliged to review the contract.
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Hello everyone,
I would like to correct Bob's posting abt the FO's package, particularly the gratuity........that is offered ONLY to SIA 744 FOs
as for service increment, i quote, 'it is reviewed on an annual basis and subjected to a max of 2.5% depending on considerations such as company performance, NWC (National Wage Council) reccomendations and other factors' (like SARS, war, any other sorry excuses). For the benefit of those not familiar with the NWC, they have been actively pushing for more competitive wages (i.e. lower wages) as well as more variable components in salaries which can be removed in 'bad' times. (up to 20% i hear). So far, SIA has been leading the way by adopting all these recommendations....promptly!
FOs won't be offered relocation allowance cos' SIA Cargo will only take FO on local terms, not on contract basis.
there's also the annual wage supplement of one month's basic. (13th month bonus) and profit sharing. they haven't work out the formula yet but rest assured it'll be ****ty.
There's also this so called 'out of base' allowance which pays S$6 an hour from start to end of the COP. This replaces the current meal allowance that we enjoy. Be aware that with the Sing dollar weakening, you'll be hard pressed to find food in Europe...even at McDs....a 'Mcvalue' meal can costs up to 8 euros!!
did i mention the tax at this bracket is about 16-20% (will probably rise very soon) and GST is goin to be 5% next year?
so if you're currently a young junior FO, single, you love being EXPLOITED, you love PUNISHMENT (16 days round the world COP with minimum days off after that) and you want a 744 rating then go for it. Just watch out for the bond thingy. If it's more than 3 years, then more consideration is needed....
If you have family, don't bother applying! If the COPs doesn't kill you, it'll sure kill your family life!
I would like to correct Bob's posting abt the FO's package, particularly the gratuity........that is offered ONLY to SIA 744 FOs
as for service increment, i quote, 'it is reviewed on an annual basis and subjected to a max of 2.5% depending on considerations such as company performance, NWC (National Wage Council) reccomendations and other factors' (like SARS, war, any other sorry excuses). For the benefit of those not familiar with the NWC, they have been actively pushing for more competitive wages (i.e. lower wages) as well as more variable components in salaries which can be removed in 'bad' times. (up to 20% i hear). So far, SIA has been leading the way by adopting all these recommendations....promptly!
FOs won't be offered relocation allowance cos' SIA Cargo will only take FO on local terms, not on contract basis.
there's also the annual wage supplement of one month's basic. (13th month bonus) and profit sharing. they haven't work out the formula yet but rest assured it'll be ****ty.
There's also this so called 'out of base' allowance which pays S$6 an hour from start to end of the COP. This replaces the current meal allowance that we enjoy. Be aware that with the Sing dollar weakening, you'll be hard pressed to find food in Europe...even at McDs....a 'Mcvalue' meal can costs up to 8 euros!!
did i mention the tax at this bracket is about 16-20% (will probably rise very soon) and GST is goin to be 5% next year?
so if you're currently a young junior FO, single, you love being EXPLOITED, you love PUNISHMENT (16 days round the world COP with minimum days off after that) and you want a 744 rating then go for it. Just watch out for the bond thingy. If it's more than 3 years, then more consideration is needed....
If you have family, don't bother applying! If the COPs doesn't kill you, it'll sure kill your family life!
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Thanks everyone for your info.....i had always had my eye on SIA...it seemed like a pilot friendly outfit....I guess things have changed....wonder how many guys will go for the deal....i do hope that they review it...but i'm almost certain they will be able to fill the slots as is.....unfortunately another certain step towards further degradation of our general working conditions.
Good luck to all applying.....for what ever reason it might be.
Good luck to all applying.....for what ever reason it might be.
Yes it is very 
the way it has gone. and now don't forget that you could get a life in prison sentance by going to a karaoke bar and enjoying the delights!!
The armchair generals have played their hand - it is backed by the government - the only out now is the guys pack their bags and go - unfortunately alot are bonded (enslaved is a more apt word) otherwise I suspect a lot more would walk out. Moral is so low its would definatley be a factor in any incident that was to occur - but as one HR or beancounter stated "Moral does not have an entry in the balance sheet"
the way it has gone. and now don't forget that you could get a life in prison sentance by going to a karaoke bar and enjoying the delights!!The armchair generals have played their hand - it is backed by the government - the only out now is the guys pack their bags and go - unfortunately alot are bonded (enslaved is a more apt word) otherwise I suspect a lot more would walk out. Moral is so low its would definatley be a factor in any incident that was to occur - but as one HR or beancounter stated "Moral does not have an entry in the balance sheet"
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Well this is the reality....the FO pay is quite low and Singapore is not a cheap place to live (except if you're into the local food stalls variety...)
But where I am now, flying the 737-200 with senior Captains in their late 40's and early 50's who would still give their left N*T to fly an old banger like 747-400 even for SIA Cargo. I am for one a type of pilot who stands for the right of all pilots worldwide to fair pay and working conditions, reality: not every economy is equal and believe me there are places in this world that pay their pilots a lot less than SIA..I know it's a crime considering that they fly the same equipment and share the same airspace...
The fact remains where I am now maybe I have a shot at command in 1.5 years, pay as Captain will still be lower than a 744 Cargo FO at SIA. I do enjoy my current schedule that always brings me home to my family every night. But for them as well I have to consider the future, one day I would like to be able to work for an International carrier that pays well and gives me the time to spend with my family...(I am sure there are gigs like that....)
So maybe the 5 year bond with the 747-400 type rating is my ticket, this argument is only valid if they would consider hiring someone like me...32 years old, married and 2 children with only 2000+ total and about 700+ 737-200 time....
Do you feel lucky punk? @#$#@%$ Well do you?
But where I am now, flying the 737-200 with senior Captains in their late 40's and early 50's who would still give their left N*T to fly an old banger like 747-400 even for SIA Cargo. I am for one a type of pilot who stands for the right of all pilots worldwide to fair pay and working conditions, reality: not every economy is equal and believe me there are places in this world that pay their pilots a lot less than SIA..I know it's a crime considering that they fly the same equipment and share the same airspace...
The fact remains where I am now maybe I have a shot at command in 1.5 years, pay as Captain will still be lower than a 744 Cargo FO at SIA. I do enjoy my current schedule that always brings me home to my family every night. But for them as well I have to consider the future, one day I would like to be able to work for an International carrier that pays well and gives me the time to spend with my family...(I am sure there are gigs like that....)
So maybe the 5 year bond with the 747-400 type rating is my ticket, this argument is only valid if they would consider hiring someone like me...32 years old, married and 2 children with only 2000+ total and about 700+ 737-200 time....
Do you feel lucky punk? @#$#@%$ Well do you?
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Not sure how a B747-400 Freighter that was recently delivered to SQ is "an old banger"???....but, I've read enough and learnt alot from your posts gentlemen.
Obviously a job for our Ozmates. No self-respecting Canuck would stoop so low......unless, it's our Ozmates shout. (we aren't easy, but we can be tricked)
Good luck to all.
I'll just keep lookin'
Obviously a job for our Ozmates. No self-respecting Canuck would stoop so low......unless, it's our Ozmates shout. (we aren't easy, but we can be tricked)
Good luck to all.
I'll just keep lookin'
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freightdriver It is not only a 5 year Bond from the end of your line training BUT a big bank Guarantee of $60000 which will cost $2000 for the paperwork alone. It has to be signed by a Bank in Singapore so if you are not bringing $60000 in Cash with you when you arrive then if paperwork not done within 20 days to SQ satisfaction then Bye Bye !!
I am assuming the same conditions that apply to Mainline with regards "Bondage" also apply to this Cargo deal.
I am assuming the same conditions that apply to Mainline with regards "Bondage" also apply to this Cargo deal.
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freightdriver,
Just hand in your application for your own sake. If the deal works out well for you, go ahead and enjoy the change for the better.
For the rest,
Whoever joining SQ Cargo "should" be rest assured of a long term job as your pay is capped at rather low level. For those in the main pax fleets, the ploy is there for them(the management) to get rid of the higher pay ceiling group. Eventually if they get what they want, SQ cargo presently suggested payscale is what they want for the long term for all fleets as the NWC(National wage council) gave the company the green light to comply with the 1.5 ratio of bottom to ceiling payscale.
Just another info for the rest, the number of crew volunteer to swich over internally from 744 fleet.... ZERO.... Of course soon you might hear some will do so, that's just because they are the ones with contract running out and there will be no renewal offered to them..
Just hand in your application for your own sake. If the deal works out well for you, go ahead and enjoy the change for the better.
For the rest,
Whoever joining SQ Cargo "should" be rest assured of a long term job as your pay is capped at rather low level. For those in the main pax fleets, the ploy is there for them(the management) to get rid of the higher pay ceiling group. Eventually if they get what they want, SQ cargo presently suggested payscale is what they want for the long term for all fleets as the NWC(National wage council) gave the company the green light to comply with the 1.5 ratio of bottom to ceiling payscale.
Just another info for the rest, the number of crew volunteer to swich over internally from 744 fleet.... ZERO.... Of course soon you might hear some will do so, that's just because they are the ones with contract running out and there will be no renewal offered to them..
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CPT744 Well I will hand it in and as a matter of fact my better half is busy filling up the application form. I think overall I will make out on top after 5 years, the main thing is just to stay afloat for the period and being able to pay bills whille in Singapore.
As far as the $60,000 Bank guarantee, if they offer me the position I still have a few investment I can reallocate just for a the occassion (career move, kids college fund etc). During my absence from flying I did a sales job for 5 years, which afford me the 737 type rating and the pot of gold...(given it's a small one but still provide extra security..)
I am sure I am not the only one who will apply, so for those who does good luck and see you in the class room. For those who doesn't wish you the best! and hope you find a better offer somewhere else (just don't forget about me the Freightdriver...)
As far as the $60,000 Bank guarantee, if they offer me the position I still have a few investment I can reallocate just for a the occassion (career move, kids college fund etc). During my absence from flying I did a sales job for 5 years, which afford me the 737 type rating and the pot of gold...(given it's a small one but still provide extra security..)
I am sure I am not the only one who will apply, so for those who does good luck and see you in the class room. For those who doesn't wish you the best! and hope you find a better offer somewhere else (just don't forget about me the Freightdriver...)
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And still you guys continue to consider SIA, lambs to the proverbial.
Some might like to ask Bob M how he feels on the recent expat cull at SIA. Sticking up for whats right is honorable, but in sq is frowned upon.
SARS wrecked Asia, and SIA were not spared this. When the chips are down, then it’s the expat who pays the price in this racially biased company. Yes, racial discrimination against none Singaporeans, its in the small print of the terms and cond, read it. And F/O promotion to Capt... forget it, the locals will swamp the few unlucky expat joes who think the can get to that rung on the ladder.
Some might like to ask Bob M how he feels on the recent expat cull at SIA. Sticking up for whats right is honorable, but in sq is frowned upon.
SARS wrecked Asia, and SIA were not spared this. When the chips are down, then it’s the expat who pays the price in this racially biased company. Yes, racial discrimination against none Singaporeans, its in the small print of the terms and cond, read it. And F/O promotion to Capt... forget it, the locals will swamp the few unlucky expat joes who think the can get to that rung on the ladder.
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freightdriver
You would seem to be one of those people who travel through life in constant need of protection from the fruits of their own folly.
Why on earth do you consider subjecting yourself and your family to five years of subjugation to an utterly rapacious company, an onerous “contract” (that can be changed to your detriment at any time and at the drop of a hat), an even more onerous bond, a bank guarantee that saps every last drop of your personal reserve and the prospect of subsistence living in SE Asia’s most expensive city, all for a B744 rating that comes with the prospect of serious time away from your family and a life of constant and major time zone adjustment? Really, if you just need to play with a new toy, buy yourself a train set!
It really beggars belief that, even after years of postings on Pprune by a plethora of SIA survivors and current employees, all sending the same message of SIA/Singapore Government ruthlessness, benefit cuts and unfairness towards employees (local and ex-pat) that you and others are still queuing up for exploitation just as major numbers of pilots are starting to jump the SIA ship after years of poor treatment.
At least if you are determined to put your head in the noose, have the wit to delay your application until SIA, out of desperation at a zero application response, react to their beloved market forces and improve the p*ss poor package they are currently offering to you and similar dupes.
Good luck – you'll need it.
You would seem to be one of those people who travel through life in constant need of protection from the fruits of their own folly.
Why on earth do you consider subjecting yourself and your family to five years of subjugation to an utterly rapacious company, an onerous “contract” (that can be changed to your detriment at any time and at the drop of a hat), an even more onerous bond, a bank guarantee that saps every last drop of your personal reserve and the prospect of subsistence living in SE Asia’s most expensive city, all for a B744 rating that comes with the prospect of serious time away from your family and a life of constant and major time zone adjustment? Really, if you just need to play with a new toy, buy yourself a train set!
It really beggars belief that, even after years of postings on Pprune by a plethora of SIA survivors and current employees, all sending the same message of SIA/Singapore Government ruthlessness, benefit cuts and unfairness towards employees (local and ex-pat) that you and others are still queuing up for exploitation just as major numbers of pilots are starting to jump the SIA ship after years of poor treatment.
At least if you are determined to put your head in the noose, have the wit to delay your application until SIA, out of desperation at a zero application response, react to their beloved market forces and improve the p*ss poor package they are currently offering to you and similar dupes.
Good luck – you'll need it.
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freightdriver
I've just re-read SIA300's posting of 13 November. You would serve yourself well by doing the same.
He is absolutely accurate with his facts and assessments and in particular please take note that any offer to join SIA Cargo as an FO would be on "local" terms and hence would not attract housing allowance (or education allowance).
It is difficult, therefore, to imagine how you would be able to financially survive in Singapore with a wife and two children - the latter, of course, not attracting an allowance to ease payment of school fees and perhaps finding it hugely difficult if not impossible to join the State education system.
Please tread very carefully and be under no illusion that, in the event you were to join SIA Cargo and then were to put a foot wrong and be terminated, your bank guarantee cash would be gone and you would be remorselessly pursued for any outstanding bond balance.
I've just re-read SIA300's posting of 13 November. You would serve yourself well by doing the same.
He is absolutely accurate with his facts and assessments and in particular please take note that any offer to join SIA Cargo as an FO would be on "local" terms and hence would not attract housing allowance (or education allowance).
It is difficult, therefore, to imagine how you would be able to financially survive in Singapore with a wife and two children - the latter, of course, not attracting an allowance to ease payment of school fees and perhaps finding it hugely difficult if not impossible to join the State education system.
Please tread very carefully and be under no illusion that, in the event you were to join SIA Cargo and then were to put a foot wrong and be terminated, your bank guarantee cash would be gone and you would be remorselessly pursued for any outstanding bond balance.
Last edited by highcirrus; 15th Nov 2003 at 12:31.